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Old 07-29-2008, 02:54 PM   #21
lilmckee
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It's a cycle ryan, ride gets popular, goes down, then come the haters, then come the safety guys, then you can't talk about the ride anymore.


Sportbikes, motorcycles, etc build confidence REAL fast. People ego's go big. They think they are faster/better then the guy in front of them, so they try to keep up. I'd say that would account for 90% of the "falls."


The other 10% we'll we know the dangers before we start the bike. Granted there shouldnt be "drivers" or drunk drivers, but we know there are. We still choose to ride.

I don't buy this whole, if your good you can avoid any accident comment. No matter how good of a rider you are, you can wreck.



Riders need to hold themselves responsible. Not to let their egos out grow their skill level. Just because everyone else is going fast doesn't mean you should.
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:54 PM   #22
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:54 PM   #23
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but out there....new guys go out there, overthink their limit, try to hang with some of the faster guys...at those high speeds, they will be lucky to live. so let them wreck and be seriously or fatally injured and then they will figure it out? I don't think so. You can make people aware of the dangers and risks.
hence the word "accident". Some may be irresponsible crashes, uneducated crashes etc. No matter the roads, the speeds or anything else regardless, crashes and accidents will always happen.

Regardless of talking about, having good/bad points about it or not....only one person is responsible for their own ride...ppl are stubborn and are not going to change their minds about the way they ride, until THEY decide to.
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:55 PM   #24
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Stories of the crashes are posted up nearly every weekend and talked about into the following week. How much more information do people need? I ride my bike and everyone else needs to ride theirs. If they can't be responsible for themselves, there's not a whole helluva lot you can do about it, other than hang around and help clean up the mess.

They are mostly adults. You can't govern their egos or their bikes.
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:56 PM   #25
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all you can do is tell people to ride their ride at their pace... it's not my fault if they don't know their pace. there is no way to predict who does and who doesn't know. I have almost 100K miles riding and i still occasionally have a corner sneak up on me or something and at that point i think, "oh, 45mph is my limit for that corner" unitl you get that "oh " moment, you really won't know what your limit is. all you can do is gear up like you might accidentally realize what you limit is
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:57 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by lilmckee View Post
It's a cycle ryan, ride gets popular, goes down, then come the haters, then come the safety guys, then you can't talk about the ride anymore.


Sportbikes, motorcycles, etc build confidence REAL fast. People ego's go big. They think they are faster/better then the guy in front of them, so they try to keep up. I'd say that would account for 90% of the "falls."


The other 10% we'll we know the dangers before we start the bike. Granted there shouldnt be "drivers" or drunk drivers, but we know there are. We still choose to ride.

I don't buy this whole, if your good you can avoid any accident comment. No matter how good of a rider you are, you can wreck.



Riders need to hold themselves responsible. Not to let their egos out grow their skill level. Just because everyone else is going fast doesn't mean you should.

No, but the forest is not like being on some random ride or riding to some place with a big group. Most the accidents out there can be avoided.
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:57 PM   #27
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First of all. The op of the previous post went down AFTER 3090 coming back from Yankees. I was leading, and keeping it VERY civil. He went down in a 15 mph curve that I went though in 1st gear at 10mph. In NO WAY at this point was I pushing it or pushing the group. IF YOU DON"T LIKE PEOPLE GOING DOWN ON BIKES DON"T RIDE ONE AND STOP POSTING. It is simply a FACT of life. Ride a bike and you will eventually go down.

I would rather newbies go through the forest in a group that I lead condifedent in knowing we split the group into appropriate pace, and they have the needed support to show them lines, and be there if something does go down. Maybe all of you would rather they go out there alone, push there limits and go down with no sweeper/support around them. Yeah that would be super awesome. The point is, people are still going to go out there, and go down.
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:58 PM   #28
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Quote:
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hence the word "accident". Some may be irresponsible crashes, uneducated crashes etc. No matter the roads, the speeds or anything else regardless, crashes and accidents will always happen.

Regardless of talking about, having good/bad points about it or not....only one person is responsible for their own ride...ppl are stubborn and are not going to change their minds about the way they ride, until THEY decide to.
+1 girl knows what shes talking about
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Stories of the crashes are posted up nearly every weekend and talked about into the following week. How much more information do people need? I ride my bike and everyone else needs to ride theirs. If they can't be responsible for themselves, there's not a whole helluva lot you can do about it, other than hang around and help clean up the mess.

They are mostly adults. You can't govern their egos or their bikes.
+1 to the whole thing
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:58 PM   #29
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I don't buy the you can't prevent accidents stance that many take on this issue. True, you cannot prevent ALL accidents....but you can prevent MOST.
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:59 PM   #30
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posted this in the other thread...

I agree completely that a lot of that should be taken to the track, but those speeds aren't usually the problem from what I see. I've been on several of these rides and it's not the guys doin triple digits that are going down. Most of the people going down, from what I have seen are inexperienced with both twisties and with groups. A lot of people get sucked into a corner too fast by a rider in front of them. It still comes back to being responsible for your own actions. I have ridden with hooligan, cdill, and some of these other "fast" riders out there. I can't hang with them at all, but I still end up in the same place as them because they wait for me.

Even if these rides weren't offered up to the masses these rides will still be taking place. Whether it be a group of 30 or ten groups of 3 and there will still be people going down.
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:59 PM   #31
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Quote:
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all you can do is tell people to ride their ride at their pace... it's not my fault if they don't know their pace. there is no way to predict who does and who doesn't know. I have almost 100K miles riding and i still occasionally have a corner sneak up on me or something and at that point i think, "oh, 45mph is my limit for that corner" unitl you get that "oh " moment, you really won't know what your limit is. all you can do is gear up like you might accidentally realize what you limit is

Agreed, and this is why we split into three groups in Anderson. The group had all of 149 to figure out where they fit into pace wise.
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:59 PM   #32
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:01 PM   #33
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First of all. The op of the previous post went down AFTER 3090 coming back from Yankees. I was leading, and keeping it VERY civil. He went down in a 15 mph curve that I went though in 1st gear at 10mph. In NO WAY at this point was I pushing it or pushing the group. IF YOU DON"T LIKE PEOPLE GOING DOWN ON BIKES DON"T RIDE ONE AND STOP POSTING. It is simply a FACT of life. Ride a bike and you will eventually go down.

I would rather newbies go through the forest in a group that I lead condifedent in knowing we split the group into appropriate pace, and they have the needed support to show them lines, and be there if something does go down. Maybe all of you would rather they go out there alone, push there limits and go down with no sweeper/support around them. Yeah that would be super awesome. The point is, people are still going to go out there, and go down.
I have been out there and been passed by the "designated sweeper" before and left by myself.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:01 PM   #34
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No, but the forest is not like being on some random ride or riding to some place with a big group. Most the accidents out there can be avoided.
So do your best to avoid them, and help others avoid them.

Trust me, its not going to stop, not now, not ever.

They're be other rides that the same stuff happens, then another then another.

It happened during my time here, it happen before I was here, it was happing long before MH.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:01 PM   #35
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The second was a harley and they weren't with us. Third was a rider mid pack going 15 mph around a curve; I know, I was leading that ride back and was 2 up.


As for the rides themselves, people find out quick how well they really think they can ride out there when they go beyond their abilities are find themselves in a situation they weren't expecting. We have had experienced riders go off whom knew it was an off day and weren't in the fast packs. It happens...

If your solution is not riding it, that is a possible solution, but for those whom want to go out and enjoy it, there is one of the best options that these forest gnomes offer... a speed-paced ride that you can dial into. Most of us dont memorize roads like you do on the track, that's how we can ride other rides around the area just as considerate, fast or lined... so we aren't going over our limits nor do we let people on the rides to press us while we're leading.

If you're pressing me while im leading the 'cruiser' group you will be sadden that I don't budge over 60 in the curves. Im not speeding up for your ego, you can go around if you like. Everyone that has gone down in the forest rides we put on have admitted to their mistakes.

I rode w some people to galveston and myself and two others almost turned around because the leader wasn't leading chit; they left three of us behind several miles while going in and out, around cars and speeding...

We have had everything from experienced riders to people JUST starting out that one of us(myself included multiple times) lead individuals to give them a line and a pace they can hold so sharpen their skills. And guess what, the whole group waited patiently for everyone to come; that included myself, the one learning at 40mph all the way up 3090 and the designated sweeper. He returned and rode w the intermediate group several times w no hiccups. We have others that always come out and ride the cruiser group when we know they can do better. Do we care? Not at all. Come out for the fun, fellowship and for the ride.

I am first an advocate for learning to control your ride and second for safety in gear. We keep strict rules we enforce and Tiatool will pull people aside and have a talk with them if they show up w something less then our usual standards. I have had Ryan stop and refuse to ride wo me putting on my gloves first when leaving 3090... Good looking out when I was lazy.

Is there a solution? yes, we all cage it. I ride aggressive usually when in a small group cuz we can mess around w eachother more. When there is anyone in our group riding less then my par for that day, I drop back down to include them, as any group should. It becomes more a matter of the group not the individual riding. The experienced riders will take this into account when organizing rides... When people ride outside their limits, or 'forget' to tell us they bought the bike a day before and wrecks on the second turn before the forest, what are we to do? We were honest with them, they weren't honest with themselves.

And chit does happen. I have lost many good friends, even from wrecks that refuse to ride again. You take that into consideration when you ride. On a busy street it is the cars you avoid, in the forest, country roads etc, it is yourself you need to watch for.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:03 PM   #36
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The blame should NOT be on its "leader," organizer, or sweeper.

Each individual is accountable for his or hers OWN actions. Just as if they were riding alone.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:04 PM   #37
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:06 PM   #38
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say what you will...but i still think its not the best time to start a thread like this. Waiting a few more weeks would be more appropriate...just my opinion...
+100000000000

now IS NOT the time
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:08 PM   #39
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People go down in small group rides too. Been there and seen it.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:09 PM   #40
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The blame should NOT be on its "leader," organizer, or sweeper.

Each individual is accountable for his or hers OWN actions. Just as if they were riding alone.
Who said we were blaming the leader? I don't blame the leaders at all.
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