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Old 07-04-2008, 03:16 PM   #21
viper15
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okay. so if i was in third gear nearing a turn, i still wouldn't need to downshift to slow down? could i remain in third gear as i approached the turn only using my brakes?

thanks a lot for the help guys. yes it is in fact my first manual transmission experience believe it or not... you can rag on me all you want but i'm getting there haha..

and by the lurching i mean jerking. when im cruising and having to slow down a bit then return to my original speed, i feel my bike jerk a bit as i roll on the throttle. is it just that i need to practice more? or is there something i'm not doing right?
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
Where do you live? Maybe someone here with a little more experience can meet you at a parking lot and help with the basics. I know a couple people who did take MSF but still got a lot of helpful tips from just practicing in a parking lot with someone willing to take the time to pass on some knowledge.
i live in katy, the cinco ranch area.
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:22 PM   #23
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You can rev match to stop the jerking in most cases, but that isn't really something I practice or consider a beginners method to follow. Really it is just Hand-Foot Coordination that you are building up. I flat sucked at shifting when I first got my bike. A liter bike jerks like a schoolgirl on a first date when you don't let off a bit and shift in time. Sounds to me like you are getting that jerking from staying on the throttle while trying to shift and it is just slamming the gears into engagement.
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:27 PM   #24
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i live in katy, the cinco ranch area.
Hey do you by any chance work at the hollywood video there?
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:56 PM   #25
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A liter bike jerks like a schoolgirl on a first date



Oh man that was funny.
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:59 PM   #26
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If you are rolling at 8-9K coming into the turn, just easing off the thottle should scrub enough speed for tip in. The jerking sounds like you need to practice "blipping" the throttle. Basically reving the engine to match your rpm's for smoother shifting. You should blip at every shift if you don't have a slipper clutch. Remember get setup for the turn early so you don't feel rushed trying to do too many things in mid corner. Just take it easy, and be patient. I will come practice with you, but you gots to come up north. PM me.
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Old 07-04-2008, 04:26 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Instead of repeating take the MSF course or rag on the guy why dont a few of yall just answer his question? Don't use the clutch to slow you down that's why your bike has brakes. Also if you left off the gas when approaching a turn the bike's own engine will slow itself down some so you can save some of your brakes. Depending on how sharp the curve is you can just down shift before and then let that also slow you down, and then when you are through the turn you should already be in the right gear.
What do you mean by lurches? it jerks, it bogs down what?

There are many people on here that rides for years and never had msf basic or advance, they should. You think that you know how to ride, wait til to take advance if you already taken basic. After MSF, there are trackdays schools, then you really learn how to ride the bike as it design. Taken advice on how to ride on the board is not reccomended. You could be learning someone's bad habit.
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Old 07-04-2008, 04:36 PM   #28
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In sounding, it takes practice even between bikes to smooth out the clutch release point and throttle. On a worn bike w mileage everything from a misadjusted throttle cable, clutch cable and loose chain can cause the jerk between shifts.

Take time, patience and courses...

As for MH, don't flame too much; he asked a valid question MSF was asked and Im sure its a consideration now w the experience that was posted to him.
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Old 07-04-2008, 04:54 PM   #29
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Either way MSF was a fun class to take. I am going to see about enrolling in the advanced one.
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Old 07-04-2008, 07:19 PM   #30
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Quote:
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Hey guys, I'm still a rookie rider, and I'm hoping I can find some help on what I'm doing wrong..

a. when exactly do i know when i should upshift or downshift? it seems like when i cruise, i stay at about 7000-8000 rpm. it may be because the ninja is a highrevving bike. i know you should listen to the engine, that if you hear it scream, upshift. if you hear it lug, downshift. maybe someone explain in more detail what their routine is when knowing when to shift?

shift as you feel you need to, but to keep from lugging the engine try to keep the rpm range over 3500 on the low side, up shift as engine rpm and speed dictate to the lowest gear that keeps you in the above range

b. at times after i shift gears, slowly releasing the clutch while rolling the throttle, my bike lurches a bit when moving. is this normal? also when i am in, say, third gear, and i slow down a bit to make a turn, i clutch in slightly while easing on the brakes in order to do so. however, as i return to my original speed i release the clutch while rolling on the throttle a bit, and for some reason this causes the bike to spaz out. what am i doing wrong?

theres this cool thing called off idle throttle response and your gonna have to find the point where the change over is and learn to smooth it out

c. also, should i be staying in the same gear as i am turning? or should i downshift before turning?

again your choice, but if you have to slow down to make the turn safely then your going to have to brake and downshift so that your not lugging the engine when you need to gain speed as you exit the turn

my apologies for the lengthy message. i appreciate your help bro.

PS. i saw the youtube videos. thats inspiration baby.. inspiration. haha
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxgs View Post
It's preferrable to avoid relying on engine braking (down shifting) to slow the bike on corner entry. Engine braking has the potential to cause the rear tire to lose traction, particularly since many bikes don't have a slipper clutch.
you should use engine braking prior to corner entry so that your in the proper gear at corner entry then bleed off extra speed with your brakes or use both in conjunction for better slowing and speed control. and ALL bikes have a slipper clutch its called your freakin hand and brain operating in concert!

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper15 View Post
okay. so if i was in third gear nearing a turn, i still wouldn't need to downshift to slow down? could i remain in third gear as i approached the turn only using my brakes?

its possible to do just that depending on the turn and the speed you feel comfortable at

thanks a lot for the help guys. yes it is in fact my first manual transmission experience believe it or not... you can rag on me all you want but i'm getting there haha..

and by the lurching i mean jerking. when im cruising and having to slow down a bit then return to my original speed, i feel my bike jerk a bit as i roll on the throttle. is it just that i need to practice more? or is there something i'm not doing right?
see the first time I said something about throttle response

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiatool View Post
If you are rolling at 8-9K coming into the turn, just easing off the thottle should scrub enough speed for tip in. The jerking sounds like you need to practice "blipping" the throttle. Basically reving the engine to match your rpm's for smoother shifting. You should blip at every shift if you don't have a slipper clutch. Remember get setup for the turn early so you don't feel rushed trying to do too many things in mid corner. Just take it easy, and be patient. I will come practice with you, but you gots to come up north. PM me.
there is NO transmission on ANY current sportbike that requires manual synchronization so stop telling people to "blip" the throttle.
the original purpose of manual synchronization was to avoid grinding the gears when downshifting, since the invention of synchromesh transmissions that need has been done away with and almost all transmissions are synchromesh( has a gear on the counter rotating shaft that maintains the shaft speed tween the crank and counter shaft.

I agree with get set up early so your not on sensory overload
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Old 07-04-2008, 07:25 PM   #31
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You blip the throttle to sync the engine speed to the rear wheel when aggressively downshifting, UNLESS your bike is equipped with a slipper clutch. Otherwise you get the rear tire sliding and chattering when the RPM drops abruptly below the wheel speed.

AFAIK bikes don't have syncromesh trannies, they are ramp/dog style.

In this gentlemans case, he is not going at anywhere those speeds, he just needs to get more practice and better feel for his controls and matching his speed to gear and RPM choice.
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Old 07-04-2008, 07:48 PM   #32
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Here is a direct quote from Sport Riding Techniques by Nick Ientsch, ""the throttle has another use, apart from speed control and cornering assistance. A small on/off twist of the throttle (a blip) can be used to help smooth a downshift, or even an upshift. This blip comes as the clutch is squeezed and the new gear selected, as the engine is freedd from the transmission by the clutch. The engine is free to rev, so a quick blip brings the engine speeed up, preventing it from falling to idle during the gear change.
Blipping your engine during a downshift takes a bit of practice, but the results are smooth gear changes and substantially less wear on your clutch. Each and every downshift should get a blip, whether youre riding a bike or driving a car. If it doesn't you be putting a clutch in sooner rather than later. Besides saving the clutch and making your passenger a lot more comfortable, blipping sounds cool. More info in chapter 6."


Sounded like good advice to me.
BUT my R1 has a slipper, so I have gotten out of the habit. I will say that my 04CBR1000 did not like downshifting without blipping, it would jerk a little like he had described, and the rear would chatter like texlurch stated.
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Old 07-04-2008, 07:51 PM   #33
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I find I can keep the rear from chattering by hammering the front brakes so hard the rear tire is off the ground..


Probably not recommended for begineers tho...
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Old 07-04-2008, 08:04 PM   #34
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LMAO Lurch, never tried that method
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Old 07-04-2008, 08:14 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraemePC View Post
I am also a rookie rider and one of the hardest things for me is getting used to the engine noise.
Earplugs will help reduce wind noise and the noise of the outside of the engine - which means you can hear the internals and "feel" the bike reacting to the RPMs instead. Takes a few rides to get used to wearing them, but in the long run they'll save you from hearing loss as well.

Quote:
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okay. so if i was in third gear nearing a turn, i still wouldn't need to downshift to slow down? could i remain in third gear as i approached the turn only using my brakes?
I'm sorry, but I need to ask since everyone is assuming - when you say "turn" do you mean a curve/turn in the road or an intersection where you are turning from one roadway to another?

Most (if not all) of the responses here pertain to curves in the road, which most riders call turns (and on the track we number them turn 1, turn 2, etc.) but I think you might be talking about actual intersections - in which case the method for slowing will depend on what gear you're already in, what speed you're at, and the conditions at that particular intersection. If I'm still moving along with no traffic and making a wide turn to a side street, I can often do it in second gear. If I need more time to evaluate traffic behind me, approaching from the other side, or the condition of the intersection itself (accident debris, transmission fluid, uneven pavement) I'll drop down to first gear and take it slower with more options for an "out".

There are really too many variables to know what you should do every second of your ride. In time, you'll get used to knowing what range you want your RPMs and what range of speeds you can safely carry depending on what you're faced with.
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:52 PM   #36
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well everyone's responses have been helpful. much appreciated!

i should add that i'm in break-in period for my ninja 250, and according to the manual i should keep the RPM at a max of 4000, even in sixth gear. the manual basically says shift up to 2nd at 12mph, 3rd at 15, 4th at 19, 5th at 21, and 6th at 28. So I'm cruisng at 35 on sixth gear. I'm supposing this is what is required to break in the bike until I reach 500 mi.
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:59 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viper15 View Post
well everyone's responses have been helpful. much appreciated!

i should add that i'm in break-in period for my ninja 250, and according to the manual i should keep the RPM at a max of 4000, even in sixth gear. the manual basically says shift up to 2nd at 12mph, 3rd at 15, 4th at 19, 5th at 21, and 6th at 28. So I'm cruisng at 35 on sixth gear. I'm supposing this is what is required to break in the bike until I reach 500 mi.
I also have a 08 Ninja 250R...and how much as i tried to keep it below 4k rpms, well it didn't happen. I actually kept them at a max of 7k or 8k...my baby is still working perfectly...just my .02 cents...
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Old 07-05-2008, 12:07 AM   #38
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haha yeah i would not expect sport bikers to maintain that speed for too long.. i actually just hopped onto the bike when it was brand new and cruised at 6 to 7k. then after hours of riding i read the break-in period section that required maxing at only 4000. now i'm praying that the bike isn't seriously damaged.
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Old 07-05-2008, 10:02 AM   #39
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During break-in make sure you are varying your speed as well. It isn't the intention to go out on the highway and cruise your break in. Discover a city a little better and hit the traffic, stop lights, and stop signs. That will also help you learn the way the clutch engagement works a lot faster.
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Old 07-05-2008, 11:06 AM   #40
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Quote:
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haha yeah i would not expect sport bikers to maintain that speed for too long.. i actually just hopped onto the bike when it was brand new and cruised at 6 to 7k. then after hours of riding i read the break-in period section that required maxing at only 4000. now i'm praying that the bike isn't seriously damaged.
You haven't. Don't lose any sleep about it. There are two completely opposite schools of thought on engine break in: baby it versus flog the out of it. I used to be in the first camp, but reading articles by guys who've tried both & then broken down the engines later to inspect -- well, the 'flog it' school of thought turned out *better* for the engine. Helps the rings to seat quickly and well.

One of the telling points for me was reading that the same vehicle's owners manual varied on this break in advice, depending on whether the vehicle was sold in the USA or overseas. Only the USA version of the manual advised the gentle break in. Which tells me... it's a legal device to reduce liability exposure if you wrap your new toy around a tree before you've learned to drive/ride it.
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