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Old 06-26-2008, 05:26 AM   #1
jodyhudson
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Here Comes MotoGP2

The death of the 250cc class as we know it may be closer than you think; the 2009 season may well be the final hurrah for the two strokes. However, the question is what will replace them. The first proposal to surface came from a joint front of IRTA and Dorna. Basically, it is for in-line four-stroke engines with a capacity of somewhere between 625 and 650cc. Components will have to be sourced from 'production sources' and teams will be supplied with a standard control ECU and data logging to enable policing of a rev limit. Cranks, con rods, valves and camshafts will all have minimum weight limits, there will also be an overall minimum weight limit, and there will be controls on valve lift, etc all with the objective of keeping costs down. Think of the home-made MotoGP bike the WCM team made and you're there.

IRTA and Dorna are the driving forces behind this proposal, mainly due to what they see as the 'ridiculous' costs of the 250 class and the consequent decline in both the number and quality of teams in the class. The Polaris World team fields factory Aprilias for Mattia Pasini and Bradley Smith at a cost of 4.5-million Euros. The Latte team spend a million less because they have one LE bike (last year's model) in their garage. The De Graaf team had to spend half-a-million Euros to prove that Danny Webb could ride a 125. Last year he had one points scoring ride on a very slow Honda, at the first round of this season he started fifth on the grid. These prices are for leasing, the teams give the bikes back at the end of the season. One also suspects that Dorna would much rather those sorts of sponsor and their budgets were in MotoGP, not the smaller classes. The target for the new four-strokes is 100,000 Euros - with the bonus that the team that builds the bike will own it.

Costs will be kept down by the rev limit and the minimum weights but teams will have to build up their own engines, probably with their own crankcases, to avoid conflict with the World Supersports Championship. The Japanese factories don't seem to see this as a problem, they want 600s. I have heard it suggested that a meeting between Dorna and the Flammini organisation could sort it out. That suggestion can only be described as naive in the extreme.

On the face of it, there are a lot of good things about this proposal. The free chassis regulations should allow companies like Harris, Bakker, Over, Bimota and other specialists back in to GPs. Think back to the old TT F1 series for a clue to the sort of motorcycle the proposal's supporters hope will appear, or in more recent times think about what the WCM team did in MotoGP when they built their own bike. One thing everyone is agreed on is that to succeed the new class must do what the 250s do now, provide a natural stepping stone to the MotoGP class; that means high corner speeds and high lean angles. A quick look at the comparative lap times at Qatar shows the World Supersport field was about two seconds slower than the GP 250s earlier this year. Take some weight off the 600, bolt on race suspension and slicks and you've got a second; stick the better riders from the 250 class on board and you've got most of the other second.

There are two main reasons for replacing the 250s, the first being environmental with Honda leading the way by deciding to stop making any strokers, and the second being the costs and what is perceived as Aprilia's machinations and ability to effectively decide who wins. But isn't this monopoly already being addressed by KTM? For the first time there are leased KTMs being run by satellite teams in 125 and 250 classes. Their engineering guru Harald Bartol, a two-stroke man if ever there was one, surprisingly isn't too sentimentally attached to the current bikes. However, the Austrian company has suggested that it could build a gridful of 250cc two-strokes at a sensible price - and they do it for the Red Bull Rookies Cup. That idea appears to have gone the way of the spec engine suggestion. Bartol's favored four-stroke engine, by the way, would be a 500cc twin.

The MSMA considered the proposal - although the manufacturers' cabal operates in much the same way as a secret society so it's impossible to say what they had on the agenda or who said what. What we do know is that they came up with the frankly naive suggestion of 600cc production engines. To see why this isn't a helpful suggestion read the recent Soup interview with FG Sport's Paolo Ciabatti.

More meetings are expected this week at Assen with FIM representatives being involved for the first time.

by julian ryder
Tuesday, June 24, 2008
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Old 06-26-2008, 07:39 AM   #2
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Interesting. On one hand I understand getting rid of the 250s: the R&D this class provides is almost moot as ring-dings are being outlawed both on and off the street everywhere. On the other hand, what do you replace it with!? You don't want to duplicate a WSBK class.
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Old 06-26-2008, 07:54 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
Interesting. On one hand I understand getting rid of the 250s: the R&D this class provides is almost moot as ring-dings are being outlawed both on and off the street everywhere. On the other hand, what do you replace it with!? You don't want to duplicate a WSBK class.
it wont be a duplicate because in WSBK they race what starts out as a production motorcycle. in motogp they race factory built race machines not available to the public. so i dont necessarily see how u think it would be a duplicate
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Old 06-26-2008, 08:44 AM   #4
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Quote:
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it wont be a duplicate because in WSBK they race what starts out as a production motorcycle. in motogp they race factory built race machines not available to the public. so i dont necessarily see how u think it would be a duplicate
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What we do know is that they came up with the frankly naive suggestion of 600cc production engines.

This is what I was commenting on. Production-based engines with prototype chassis sounds alot like a 600cc version of the actual superbike class to me.
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Old 06-26-2008, 08:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
This is what I was commenting on. Production-based engines with prototype chassis sounds alot like a 600cc version of the actual superbike class to me.
yep. and like it stated... was merely a suggestion. but i doubt thats what they will resort to.
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Old 06-26-2008, 10:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
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yep. and like it stated... was merely a suggestion. but i doubt thats what they will resort to.
I personally hope they don't!
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Old 06-26-2008, 10:23 AM   #7
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I don't know, I have mixed feelings about the 250 class.
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:09 AM   #8
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I like the 2 strokes matter of fact I miss the 500cc motogp 2 strokes. It seemed like it was more challenging for the rider not just technology doing everthing for'em.
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
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I like the 2 strokes matter of fact I miss the 500cc motogp 2 strokes. It seemed like it was more challenging for the rider not just technology doing everthing for'em.
They'd probably all have traction control and anti-wheelie on them now anyway. NASCAR holds exclusive rights to racing vehicles stuck in the stone-age.
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:19 AM   #10
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Didnt really care for the 2strokes anyway.
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Old 06-26-2008, 01:16 PM   #11
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Didnt really care for the 2strokes anyway.
u say that, but have u ever riddin one at the track ?
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Old 06-26-2008, 03:02 PM   #12
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u say that, but have u ever riddin one at the track ?

No compression braking FTW.
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Old 06-26-2008, 03:16 PM   #13
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I think it'll be great for the sport and look forward to it if it gets the green light.
Alvaro on a screaming 600, yes please
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Old 06-26-2008, 03:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-po 5.0 View Post
They'd probably all have traction control and anti-wheelie on them now anyway. NASCAR holds exclusive rights to racing vehicles stuck in the stone-age.
bwuahahahahahahaha that is a good one.
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Old 06-26-2008, 03:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
I think it'll be great for the sport and look forward to it if it gets the green light.
Alvaro on a screaming 600, yes please
he might in a screaming 800
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Old 06-26-2008, 05:32 PM   #16
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No compression braking FTW.
thats why they put real brakes on them. FTW dont knock it til u try it...
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Old 06-27-2008, 12:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
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u say that, but have u ever riddin one at the track ?
They have creepy power curves not what I am used to.
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Old 06-27-2008, 07:12 AM   #18
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They have creepy power curves not what I am used to.
they arent creepy. u just gotta have the ballz keep it pinned everywhere
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Old 06-27-2008, 08:22 AM   #19
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I think it may work in our favor. This seems like something that could ultimately lead to becoming a production bike like the Duc Desmo. Would be cool to have a motoGP bike that you could ride at the track. Wishful thinking.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:46 PM   #20
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http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=33040

LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE GONNA SEE SOME SERIOUS 600 RACING.
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