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Old 06-23-2008, 01:43 PM   #121
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You must be speaking of something different this is not what happened on Sunday
i am talking about a different ride... but still whether the leader is responsible for the whole group or not.
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Old 06-23-2008, 01:51 PM   #122
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This is why I ride by myself now! I met a bunch of cool people here but I have more fun flyin solo..
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Old 06-23-2008, 01:57 PM   #123
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the only thing i hated about my 1st forest ride, egypt, and 3090 was all the bugs i had to clean off my front after the ride. Other than that, it was a blast!
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:05 PM   #124
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the kid fell over in the parking lot as the gas station when he hit his front brakes... there is no amount of anything that I could do for that kid as the group's leader at the time...

that is a fine example of why noobs need to be on a 250... had it been a bigger bike, he probably would have been going faster
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:16 PM   #125
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To with all the debating....

if you wanna ride spirited..keep it to PM and invite only.

If you are up for hanging out, easy riding, slow pace, helping new riders, teaching etc. then post it.

If you are wanting to learn to corner, body positioning, braking, accelerating and so on....do a track day. Group rides, IMO, are not the place. I can not express how much I learned. I only "thought" I knew how to ride until my first track day then I realized I dunno .

Sadly, people do not know thier limits until they cross them.
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:20 PM   #126
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To with all the debating....

if you wanna ride spirited..keep it to PM and invite only.
why... i speed occasionally, as do most of the people i ride with and most people that post a ride on MH will break the speed limit at least once. how are you supposed to know who wants to go riding if you have to do it all by PM... how do you meet new people? send 3K PM's? and define what you mean by "spirited"

Quote:
If you are up for hanging out, easy riding, slow pace, helping new riders, teaching etc. then post it.

If you are wanting to learn to corner, body positioning, braking, accelerating and so on....do a track day. Group rides, IMO, are not the place. I can not express how much I learned. I only "thought" I knew how to ride until my first track day then I realized I dunno .

Sadly, people do not know thier limits until they cross them.
I know of quite a few people that have done track days, or are track day instructors that give very valuable information to people riding the street. A group ride is a great place for instruction... how can you get instruction if you are by yourself riding?
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:24 PM   #127
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We used to have a sticky about pace..

To me relaxed/mild = at or below the posted speeds

Moderate to brisk = under 1XX, but double the posted corner speeds

Spirited = flying down the straights and cornering
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:31 PM   #128
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We used to have a sticky about pace..

To me relaxed/mild = at or below the posted speeds

Moderate to brisk = under 1XX, but double the posted corner speeds

Spirited = flying down the straights and cornering
oh ok... so i don't do spirited rides then
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:39 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
We used to have a sticky about pace..

To me relaxed/mild = at or below the posted speeds

Moderate to brisk = under 1XX, but double the posted corner speeds

Spirited = flying down the straights and cornering
exactly.
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Old 06-23-2008, 04:54 PM   #130
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the best rides i have ever bein on where only two or three people railing turns then slowing up on straights. with everyone being the same caliber riders. too many people and i could see it getting ugly
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:32 PM   #131
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sorry zx-6racer, I wasn't trying to call you out specifically. there's a ton of keyboard comandos on here that tend to run their mouths about peeps they have never ridden with or even know for that matter. also, I wanted to be sure to state my skill level so as not to allow all the arguing above to discourage any noobs out there from coming out on these rides. if me, a noob-girl on a 250, can hang in the middle of a group ride, they can too.

your opion is greatly appreciated as well as everyone else's who have posted in this thread since i still have so much to learn about this sport.
I'll ride with you anytime, you did a great job on Saturday and were riding within YOUR comfort level.
Everyone went home in one piece and we had fun, and that is the point of the whole thing anyway!
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:50 PM   #132
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If you don't want to hold public group rides, better to just go on about your business of holding your group rides in private. Posting your intention to do so probably does nothing to improve your cause. I am glad this got posted, though. It got me thinking about group rides I've been on and what level of risk I am willing to take.

I've always felt defining "the pace" and throwing out words like "spirited," while well intentioned, can pose a veiled threat for riders unfamiliar to a group or group riding. Hearing or reading of the definition for these terms conjures up a desire to attain them, so of course new riders are going to be eager to keep up. Imagine if ride leads would define their ride intentions more in terms of risk.

How would you view a ride if it was defined like this?
  • Our lead group will be willing to reach limits of traction in corners. If you do not know that limit on your machine, you will likely crash if you ride with them.
  • We will sustain speeds where braking distance will far exceed sight distance. You are likely to crash if an unforseen road hazard is encountered.
  • We will be exceeding posted corner speeds significantly, so an emergency stop in any corner will likely require you to either cross the center line or go off road.
  • Our group is aware of these risks and we are willing to accept them for the sake of enjoying the ride the way we like it. If you don't want to ride at that level, or you don't understand these risks, ride casually and we will be waiting at the burger joint 40 miles up the road, happy to see you, ready to swap stories, fuel up, and decide where we are going next.

The best rides I've been on stem from meet & greets. Start asking around, and it doesn't take long to find others who share the level of risk you are willing to take. Find like-minded riders and get out there, have fun, and ride.
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:37 PM   #133
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To with all the debating....

if you wanna ride spirited..keep it to PM and invite only.

If you are up for hanging out, easy riding, slow pace, helping new riders, teaching etc. then post it.

If you are wanting to learn to corner, body positioning, braking, accelerating and so on....do a track day. Group rides, IMO, are not the place. I can not express how much I learned. I only "thought" I knew how to ride until my first track day then I realized I dunno .

Sadly, people do not know thier limits until they cross them.
I am with you. I still don't know .
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Old 06-23-2008, 06:40 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angamico View Post
How would you view a ride if it was defined like this?
  • Our lead group will be willing to reach limits of traction in corners. If you do not know that limit on your machine, you will likely crash if you ride with them.
  • We will sustain speeds where braking distance will far exceed sight distance. You are likely to crash if an unforseen road hazard is encountered.
  • We will be exceeding posted corner speeds significantly, so an emergency stop in any corner will likely require you to either cross the center line or go off road.
  • Our group is aware of these risks and we are willing to accept them for the sake of enjoying the ride the way we like it. If you don't want to ride at that level, or you don't understand these risks, ride casually and we will be waiting at the burger joint 40 miles up the road, happy to see you, ready to swap stories, fuel up, and decide where we are going next.
Given those options, I would "just say no"
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:38 PM   #135
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One time in the last 3+ years of riding almost every weekend, with a LOT of the people on this board, only ONE time did someone NOT make it home. I hope it never happens again BUT.........everyone in that group stayed.......in fact we were the last ones to leave.
After the police, the ambulance and the coroner left we went home.
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Old 06-23-2008, 08:54 PM   #136
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My turn...

I start second or third so I can take some corners in the beginning then I fall back to slower participants. Our first group ride w the regulars now was the time our leader went down. I was designated sweeper till 3090's 15mph pin... there was one person whom since then improved, but at that time wouldn't corner over the posted speed limit. We were the last two, I pulled infront of him, not away from him to give him better lines through the corner. At the stop I took off to corner for a bit and our leader tried to keep up but hit rocks... Granted I was going into the corner triple recommended but I was riding my bike and the pack hadn't started out yet.

Since then I have always been midpack after the group ride gets into its pace for those whom wanna ride comfortable. I ride slower in the straights and keep the pace in the corners where ever it needs to be so no one is straining. One of our rides our group split into them and myself(our biggest group) where I had four with me and designated sweeper.

If someone is struggling and I have turned around in corners and talked w them and worked on their corners with them WHILE others were still behind us doing the same... that's something they wouldn't have learned by themselves.

And personally one day I informed our regulars my gf and I were in turmoil and I'm not feeling right that day. I stayed in the back and I kid you not one of the fastest guys stopped just to check on me on the way back and I needed it at that time. I was at my own pace which was posted speed limit and had I stopped, he would have waited for me and no doubt the others behind me would have too.

When our fastest riders also sweep, like last weekend, you know these people genuinely care for the riders whom ride with them. As for questions about pace etc... Ya, its good information but anyone whom had ridden with us more then once knows how sincere and honest we all are. We have one excellent rider who everytime sees someone down says "that's it, I'm done for the day" and rides in the back...

What is happening w the private ride is filtering for those who are comfortable riding with eachother at the same skill level. Discussions had already been made about dividing larger groups up to two smaller one based on riding aggression. I usually don't speed in the straights... Anyone can roll a throttle in a straight line... So pass me... At the same time I'll say I have stretched my legs almost to the bike's limits in the country straights to get ahead of the pack and take pics as they ride by me.

There isn't gonna be an answer to suit everyone. I actually separated my tire on a hard right corner Sunday so I'll be down till I replace it(Patrick I'm coming!) But I wont turn down an open forest ride cause I meet the people whom share the same crazy ambition I do to defy gravity on two wheels and see a bit of the world while it's still here. If that's at 100 or parkinglot/McD/shell pimpin, which I did do when I was on crutches and couldn't ride, I'll be there.

Ok I'm winded.... I'll shush now.
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:18 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligonetx View Post
My turn...

I start second or third so I can take some corners in the beginning then I fall back to slower participants. Our first group ride w the regulars now was the time our leader went down. I was designated sweeper till 3090's 15mph pin... there was one person whom since then improved, but at that time wouldn't corner over the posted speed limit. We were the last two, I pulled infront of him, not away from him to give him better lines through the corner. At the stop I took off to corner for a bit and our leader tried to keep up but hit rocks... Granted I was going into the corner triple recommended but I was riding my bike and the pack hadn't started out yet.

Since then I have always been midpack after the group ride gets into its pace for those whom wanna ride comfortable. I ride slower in the straights and keep the pace in the corners where ever it needs to be so no one is straining. One of our rides our group split into them and myself(our biggest group) where I had four with me and designated sweeper.

If someone is struggling and I have turned around in corners and talked w them and worked on their corners with them WHILE others were still behind us doing the same... that's something they wouldn't have learned by themselves.

And personally one day I informed our regulars my gf and I were in turmoil and I'm not feeling right that day. I stayed in the back and I kid you not one of the fastest guys stopped just to check on me on the way back and I needed it at that time. I was at my own pace which was posted speed limit and had I stopped, he would have waited for me and no doubt the others behind me would have too.

When our fastest riders also sweep, like last weekend, you know these people genuinely care for the riders whom ride with them. As for questions about pace etc... Ya, its good information but anyone whom had ridden with us more then once knows how sincere and honest we all are. We have one excellent rider who everytime sees someone down says "that's it, I'm done for the day" and rides in the back...

What is happening w the private ride is filtering for those who are comfortable riding with eachother at the same skill level. Discussions had already been made about dividing larger groups up to two smaller one based on riding aggression. I usually don't speed in the straights... Anyone can roll a throttle in a straight line... So pass me... At the same time I'll say I have stretched my legs almost to the bike's limits in the country straights to get ahead of the pack and take pics as they ride by me.

There isn't gonna be an answer to suit everyone. I actually separated my tire on a hard right corner Sunday so I'll be down till I replace it(Patrick I'm coming!) But I wont turn down an open forest ride cause I meet the people whom share the same crazy ambition I do to defy gravity on two wheels and see a bit of the world while it's still here. If that's at 100 or parkinglot/McD/shell pimpin, which I did do when I was on crutches and couldn't ride, I'll be there.

Ok I'm winded.... I'll shush now.
matt, out of everyone that rides forest i have to say, you are one of the most responsible ones out there.
you have been riding for way longer than me and can corner on that busa like a madman, but you never, ever try and show off to the new guys. you ride at your own pace, and you often dont mind sweeping, alot of times you even offer. you always take pics and post them up on the board later for us.
just wanted to give you a SHOUTOUT
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:27 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdill35 View Post
To with all the debating....

if you wanna ride spirited..keep it to PM and invite only.

If you are up for hanging out, easy riding, slow pace, helping new riders, teaching etc. then post it.

If you are wanting to learn to corner, body positioning, braking, accelerating and so on....do a track day. Group rides, IMO, are not the place. I can not express how much I learned. I only "thought" I knew how to ride until my first track day then I realized I dunno .

Sadly, people do not know thier limits until they cross them.
just keep quoting this untill people get it lol

a good end to this thread.
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:44 PM   #139
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Thanx... its the tires...


Regardless, there will always be forest rides both public and private... I'll be seeing both contending parties.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:47 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angamico View Post
If you don't want to hold public group rides, better to just go on about your business of holding your group rides in private. Posting your intention to do so probably does nothing to improve your cause. I am glad this got posted, though. It got me thinking about group rides I've been on and what level of risk I am willing to take.

I've always felt defining "the pace" and throwing out words like "spirited," while well intentioned, can pose a veiled threat for riders unfamiliar to a group or group riding. Hearing or reading of the definition for these terms conjures up a desire to attain them, so of course new riders are going to be eager to keep up. Imagine if ride leads would define their ride intentions more in terms of risk.

How would you view a ride if it was defined like this?
  • Our lead group will be willing to reach limits of traction in corners. If you do not know that limit on your machine, you will likely crash if you ride with them.
  • We will sustain speeds where braking distance will far exceed sight distance. You are likely to crash if an unforseen road hazard is encountered.
  • We will be exceeding posted corner speeds significantly, so an emergency stop in any corner will likely require you to either cross the center line or go off road.
  • Our group is aware of these risks and we are willing to accept them for the sake of enjoying the ride the way we like it. If you don't want to ride at that level, or you don't understand these risks, ride casually and we will be waiting at the burger joint 40 miles up the road, happy to see you, ready to swap stories, fuel up, and decide where we are going next.
Sounds like a fun ride, but I'd probably need a few drinks first to take the edge off...
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