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Old 06-17-2008, 03:19 PM   #221
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Guess we need to change the tests....
yes we do


thats why the rest of the WORLD has tiered licensing vs the US where a teen can buy a 'busa.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:21 PM   #222
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:21 PM   #223
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It is always more satisfying to smoke a 600cc or 1000cc sportbike in the twisties on a Ninja 250 or GS500 than a bigger bike.

So true


But when you are ready to answer the call of the Supersport, they will be waiting for you and you'll be better off having honed your skills on the smaller sportbike. Supersports are not beginner bikes. But they make great second and third bikes.

The choice is yours. make a smart one, because it will impact your life[/quote]


Words of the wise!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^^
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:21 PM   #224
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DEAN:



The Final Equation

We've covered the reasons why people justify or want to get a 600cc sportbike. But we have one more thing to answer and it is simple: What makes these bad bikes to start on?

Sportbikes are built as racing machines, pure and simple. They are built in response to guidelines laid down by racing bodies for a particular class and made to win races in that class. Ducati, for example, spends most of their existence building bikes to win races. Since 1950, Ducati was always a racing bike manufacturer first and their products reflected that philosophy. A by-product of winning races is the fact that people see those winning machines and want to ride them (if you're going to ride, you might as well ride the best as it goes). It didn't take the motorcycle manufacturers long to figure out that there was a market demand for these machines and reacted accordingly.

Sportbikes represent a technological arms race. This has really become apparent in the past 5-10 years where new models eclipse last years models with better performance and capability with each passing year. To compare a 1989 Honda CBR600F Hurricane (the original CBR) to a 2003 CBR600RR is pointless. There is no comparison except in the model designation showing a distant family relation. The new CBR is lighter by at least 50 pounds and packs 30 percent more power, handling and braking ability that makes the original CBR look like a ponderous dinosaur. But just because that original CBR dinosaur has been eclipsed doesn't make it any more tamable. If anything, older sportbikes are far more temperamental than the descendants.

Consider the fact that this year a privateer (independent racer) bought a Yamaha YZF-R1 off the showroom floor, took off the lights and mirrors, added a race belly pan, exhaust and tires and placed in the top ten at the AMA Superbike race at Daytona. The bike was two weeks off the floor and basically stock (the modifications with the exception of the pipe are required). Since factory sponsored teams tend to take the top slots, any privateer that can break in the top ten is doing well by anyone's definition.

Because sportbikes (and especially 600s since they compete in the most populous racing class out there) are designed first as racing machines, they are built with handling, acceleration and speed in mind. Not just one quality at the expense of others but all of them in abundance! Centralizing the mass of the bike at the center of gravity (CoG) gives the bike neutral stability. The high riding position and the perching of the rider over the CoG gives the bike the ability to flick over rapidly.

The steering geometry and short wheelbase of these bikes is designed to provide short and rapid directional changes. Combined with the higher CoG and mass centralization, the steering setup is what gives sportbikes their amazing turning ability.

Engine designs vary but have settled on V-twins and inline fours as the preferred choices. The sportbike V-twins are liquid-cooled, high-rpm engines designed to generate massive torque (hence acceleration) and power in the mid-range of their design limits. Witness the success of Nicky Hayden and Miquel Duhamel on the Honda RC51 in AMA Superbike as testament to the massive grunt these engines put out. So potent in fact that the AMA changed the rules for the following season to even the odds between the V-twins and inline fours. The inline four equipped bikes simply couldn't outpower the twins on curvy portions of the race circuit.

The inline four is by far the most common engine layout in sportbikes including all 600cc sport designs (the Ducati 620SS has a V-twin but is air-cooled and the bike is not a racing machine). All of the sportbikes that new riders after are equipped with this engine design. High-rpm capability (redlines vary between 11K and 16K rpm), liquid cooled and designed to produce peak power at very high rpms. The inline four delivers smooth and increasing power as the throttle is opened. Power tends to build to the peak point, at which power the engine will tend to surge to peak power and fall off as the peak point is crossed. Although nowhere near as bad as a race-tuned two-stroke (which literally double their horsepower as the engine transitions to peak power), the engine displays its roots as a racing thoroughbred.

A 1mm or 1/16 of an inch twist of the throttle can easily result in a 2000-4000rpm jump. You can be cruising along at a sedate 4000rpm, hit a pothole and suddenly find the bike surging forward with the front end getting light at 7000rpm. Definitely unnerving the first time you experience it.

And then there are the brakes. Braking technology has gotten progressively more potent over the past ten years. Even older sportbikes sport twin disc setups with two or four piston calipers designed to get these bikes down from 150mph to 60mph as quickly as possible. Current generation bikes are unreal. These brakes have grown to six piston calipers with massive discs whose sole job is to slow a 180mph missile down to corner speed in the shortest distance possible. If you ever watch racers, notice that they tend to only use two fingers to brake. They don't need anymore than that. The brakes are almost too powerful. And accidents happen on the track a lot due to bad or late braking.

All of these qualities produce an exquisite riding machine. The problem is, all of these qualities are designed to operate at extremes since it is under extreme conditions that these bikes are intended to operate. For the street, these capabilities are overkill. A hard squeeze of the front brake on the street can easily get a sportbike to lock its front wheel. Same applies to an over-aggressive stomp on the rear brake. No matter which way you slice it, highsides hurt.

The powerful engine can literally get you from 0 to 45mph in the blink of an eye in first gear. Come up one gear and you can be at 70mph with the slightest drop of your wrist. Add in one bump at speed without knowing what the throttle is going to do and suddenly you aren't at 70mph anymore. You're at 90+ mph and the bike is tickling its "sweet spot". At this speed, you better not panic. If you botch the slowdown from this error (either by a rapid rolloff or a shift), you can find yourself in serious trouble.

The handling capabilities of sportbikes actually make them wonderful machines to ride once you are used to thinking where you want to go. This actually gives them great beginner qualities (if on the extreme end). The downside is this perfect handling is slaved to amazing power on tap and the brakes that can back it off just as quickly.

In the final equation, a 600cc sportbike is little more than a racing machine with street parts bolted on. They aren't designed for street use; they are adapted to it. But no compromises are made in that transition. The same R6, GSX-R600, ZX-6RR or CBR600RR you can buy off the showroom floor can be converted in an afternoon, be at the track the next day and wind up winning races. And the sportbikes from 10 years ago were the R6s, Gixxers, Ninjas and CBRs of their day. They possessed the same qualities that their modern descendants do just not with the same maximums. Even today on the street, a 15 year old sportbike is little different than its 2003 cousin. The 2003 might accelerate quicker, stop shorter and lean farther but at the speeds us mortals ride at, there will be little difference.

Sportbike technology has gone an amazing distance in twenty years. Performance and ability has almost doubled in that time. But rider ability has not and a new rider from 20 years ago would still have the same challenges then as a new rider would today on an R6.

Sportbike form evolved to meets its function: to win races. Always has, always will. And riders will after these technological marvels for that reason. Can you start out on one? Yes. But you can also pretend to be a GP racer on a smaller sportbike that gives up nothing to its bigger brothers where most of us spend our riding days. It is always more satisfying to smoke a 600cc or 1000cc sportbike in the twisties on a Ninja 250 or GS500 than a bigger bike.

But when you are ready to answer the call of the Supersport, they will be waiting for you and you'll be better off having honed your skills on the smaller sportbike. Supersports are not beginner bikes. But they make great second and third bikes.

The choice is yours. make a smart one, because it will impact your life


good lord, the "cut and paste" king...
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:23 PM   #225
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why not cut and paste when the arguments been made countless times before? there is no need for additional reasons why it is advisable to start on a 250, it's been done to death
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:24 PM   #226
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good lord, the "cut and paste" king...

buuuuuuuuuut doesn't negate the value of what he posted... Otherwise some wouldn't have taken time to go read it... Good solid stuff.

I love motorcycles... regardless of the CC's! Everyone go ride today and make Motohouston proud!
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:26 PM   #227
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buuuuuuuuuut doesn't negate the value of what he posted... Otherwise some wouldn't have taken time to go read it... Good solid stuff.

I love motorcycles... regardless of the CC's! Everyone go ride today and make Motohouston proud!
its an opinion.. thats all.. who knows if its true or not.. what works for one...???
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:29 PM   #228
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I think that its better to start on a smaller bike. I did even though everyone i know told me not to and to get "a real bike" but lets just let my experience be an example 4 people got a bike 3 of them were 600's and guess whose still on two wheels . I know there has been many times when something has happened where I looked back and thought if i had a larger bike i would have been in trouble. Also for all the naysayers that say a smaller bike cant keep up i ride daily about 80mph+ and no problems keeping up with traffic.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:30 PM   #229
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ok girls, this break from reality has been fun... while you all talk about it.. i'm going to go do it!!

to the originator of all this.. careful who you ask for advice.. you know what they say about opinions.. "they are like , everyone has one"
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:31 PM   #230
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what works for one...???
well the guy that posted was ? yesterday was"the one" that would start out fine and repect the bike and blah blah blah, they all think they are the one

but ins. shows most aren't , some live some die. the strong don't always survive.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:31 PM   #231
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Good read Racer X

I didn't read the other 6 pages, but this was good oh yeah...still happy w/my 2fiddy after a forest ride
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:31 PM   #232
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ok girls, this break from reality has been fun... while you all talk about it.. i'm going to go do it!!

to the originator of all this.. careful who you ask for advice.. you know what they say about opinions.. "they are like , everyone has one"
Agreed I just got the call. See you on the road keyboard jockeys!!
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:33 PM   #233
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ok girls, this break from reality has been fun... while you all talk about it.. i'm going to go do it!!

to the originator of all this.. careful who you ask for advice.. you know what they say about opinions.. "they are like , everyone has one"
so whats your background?
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:33 PM   #234
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its an opinion.. thats all.. who knows if its true or not.. what works for one...???
Am I the only one that is finding these posts by D3CR as unquestionably odd logic? :/:
Ride safe regardless of your opinion D3. have a good day!
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:33 PM   #235
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if you think you can handle starting on a 600, you'll likely think you can handle the bike while you test just how fast it can go, which will likely be not long after you have gotten it. just my $.02
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:36 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D3CR View Post
ok girls, this break from reality has been fun... while you all talk about it.. i'm going to go do it!!

to the originator of all this.. careful who you ask for advice.. you know what they say about opinions.. "they are like , everyone has one"
Regardless of the debate here and the differences in opinions , ride safe out there bro.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:36 PM   #237
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Am I the only one that is finding these posts by D3CR as unquestionably odd logic? :/:
Ride safe regardless of your opinion D3. have a good day!
minimal logic, 90% troll.
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:38 PM   #238
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dont blame him he rides a zx-14 /jk
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:47 PM   #239
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ok girls, this break from reality has been fun... while you all talk about it.. i'm going to go do it!!

to the originator of all this.. careful who you ask for advice.. you know what they say about opinions.. "they are like , everyone has one"
not me... i use a colostomy bag...
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Old 06-17-2008, 03:51 PM   #240
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No intro, he's only posted in the 'Austin Ride' thread he created and this one.

...and reading his austin ride thread, I get...tango vibes.
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