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Old 06-03-2008, 09:52 PM   #1
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It has been brought to my attenion that the only way a track rider is considered a good rider is being fast! So my question to the trackhead/racers is what makes a good rider? Is it speed alone or are there other factors involved?

I have my opinions, but I am curious to read the responses from the other trackheads/racers here?
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Old 06-03-2008, 09:55 PM   #2
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This is the way I see it: I think a good rider is someone who is smooth, controlled, and holds THEIR line consistently. Not necessarily speed, I know some guys who are incredibly talented but just run at a comfortable pace to them, which is great! Now when it comes to making a name for yourself in racing, being a "good" rider isn't enough, the speed has to be there as well.
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Old 06-03-2008, 10:01 PM   #3
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I aint a trackhead or racer by any means, but I think anybody who is one, is already considered FAHST! I think what makes them GOOD is the ability to pass anybody else on the track. U can go mach 2, but if you can't put your skillz to proper use, you'll never get around the person who is only going mach 1. And I think smooooooothness is key when it comes to perfecting skillz.
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Old 06-03-2008, 10:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candie View Post
It has been brought to my attenion that the only way a track rider is considered a good rider is being fast! So my question to the trackhead/racers is what makes a good rider? Is it speed alone or are there other factors involved?

I have my opinions, but I am curious to read the responses from the other trackheads/racers here?
Speed is a product of lots of things. "Fast" (not "FAHST" ) racers have multiple factors, the guts to push things to their "limit" is part of it. In endurance racing like I do, you don't have to be the fastest guy out there every lap because you've got an hour and in broad terms, you need only be consistent. That's a different kind of "fast" than the sprinters, who only have a few laps to win it. The sprinters have to put it down on every corner, every time, or they don't do well.

Knowing limits, knowing your machinery, knowing where you can do certain things on each track and where you can't, vision to pick your spots, the ability to know how/ when to apply brakes/ throttle... there's so much to list...
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Old 06-03-2008, 11:08 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candie View Post
It has been brought to my attenion that the only way a track rider is considered a good rider is being fast! So my question to the trackhead/racers is what makes a good rider? Is it speed alone or are there other factors involved?

I have my opinions, but I am curious to read the responses from the other trackheads/racers here?
I'll go one further on this.

To be a good instructor doesn't necessarily mean you have to be fast either. A good instructor is able to help students get understanding and application of the skills and techniques that is within the subject. Mostly, this means communication.

While I personally believe that a good instructor also has racing experience to some degree and has displayed proficiency themselves with the skills and techniques to be presented, that doesn't always translate to speed either.

I'll take myself as an example. I've had plenty of people come up and say, "man, you're fast", while I know perfectly well that there are a TON of other folks who are so much faster than me on the same machines. I may be "fast" to them, but to the guy next to me, I'm freakin' slow. The difference is, that as an instructor, I may be more successful in helping a student understand the skills and techniques they need to be successful on the track, while that other person next to me can't even begin to get the point across. Not saying that is the case, just an illustration.

Not everyone can teach, and not everyone can be fast, fewer still can do both effectively
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Not everyone can teach, and not everyone can be fast, fewer still can do both effectively
So true!

I give a lotta praise to all the coaches/instructors/CRs of all orgs. It's grueling to be out there watching guys/gals that don't ride at your pace, know where they're blowing lines, remember the things that need to be improved upon, and be able to convey all of that a whole range of folks of different experience, skill, and backgrounds.

On top of that, it's tiring work. Riding 20 minute sessions like a mother duck, come back in get a little water, then go back out and hopefully put in a session at your own pace - wears on the body and wears on the bike. Rest is almost outta the question cuz even when your in your pit area, you still have folks coming over, asking questions to improve or better understand the track, riding, whatever.

Sooo to all you guys/gals that are there to really help others out - a big thanks to you all!

BACK ON TOPIC

I agree with alot of what Tom said about the fast folks.

It takes patience to learn the line, walk the track, learn its idiosynchroncies, understand the grip in both wet and dry, cold and hot. I think it's about being consistantly good, everywhere on the track, at every track.

You gotta be able to understand your bike and what it's telling you. If you make an adjustment, understanding what the difference was between the original setting and the new setting AND knowing with confidence that you (the rider) made the same, consistant input on both settings. These folks can tell the difference between tucking the front or losing the back.

There's a lotta skill and confidence involved. Some folks are just better at WFO til the last possible microsecond, have no fear of swapping some paint, and can crack the throttle before you, while you're watching him/her gap the outta ya'.

Some of it is practice, practice, practice and some folks just have that "gift" of getting the signals from the brain sorted out quicker than others. I've found with age - those signals get slower and slower
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:37 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
I'll go one further on this.

To be a good instructor doesn't necessarily mean you have to be fast either. A good instructor is able to help students get understanding and application of the skills and techniques that is within the subject. Mostly, this means communication.

While I personally believe that a good instructor also has racing experience to some degree and has displayed proficiency themselves with the skills and techniques to be presented, that doesn't always translate to speed either.

I'll take myself as an example. I've had plenty of people come up and say, "man, you're fast", while I know perfectly well that there are a TON of other folks who are so much faster than me on the same machines. I may be "fast" to them, but to the guy next to me, I'm freakin' slow. The difference is, that as an instructor, I may be more successful in helping a student understand the skills and techniques they need to be successful on the track, while that other person next to me can't even begin to get the point across. Not saying that is the case, just an illustration.

Not everyone can teach, and not everyone can be fast, fewer still can do both effectively
there's an old saying, "those who can't do, teach"
it's been my experience, not in racing or track time as I have done neither, but the best at something is seldomly the best to teach someone else how to be greater than them
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
I'll go one further on this.

To be a good instructor doesn't necessarily mean you have to be fast either. A good instructor is able to help students get understanding and application of the skills and techniques that is within the subject. Mostly, this means communication.

While I personally believe that a good instructor also has racing experience to some degree and has displayed proficiency themselves with the skills and techniques to be presented, that doesn't always translate to speed either.

I'll take myself as an example. I've had plenty of people come up and say, "man, you're fast", while I know perfectly well that there are a TON of other folks who are so much faster than me on the same machines. I may be "fast" to them, but to the guy next to me, I'm freakin' slow. The difference is, that as an instructor, I may be more successful in helping a student understand the skills and techniques they need to be successful on the track, while that other person next to me can't even begin to get the point across. Not saying that is the case, just an illustration.

Not everyone can teach, and not everyone can be fast, fewer still can do both effectively
Thanks Tom for explaining to to me!
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyRed View Post
So true!

I give a lotta praise to all the coaches/instructors/CRs of all orgs. It's grueling to be out there watching guys/gals that don't ride at your pace, know where they're blowing lines, remember the things that need to be improved upon, and be able to convey all of that a whole range of folks of different experience, skill, and backgrounds.

On top of that, it's tiring work. Riding 20 minute sessions like a mother duck, come back in get a little water, then go back out and hopefully put in a session at your own pace - wears on the body and wears on the bike. Rest is almost outta the question cuz even when your in your pit area, you still have folks coming over, asking questions to improve or better understand the track, riding, whatever.

Sooo to all you guys/gals that are there to really help others out - a big thanks to you all!

BACK ON TOPIC

I agree with alot of what Tom said about the fast folks.

It takes patience to learn the line, walk the track, learn its idiosynchroncies, understand the grip in both wet and dry, cold and hot. I think it's about being consistantly good, everywhere on the track, at every track.

You gotta be able to understand your bike and what it's telling you. If you make an adjustment, understanding what the difference was between the original setting and the new setting AND knowing with confidence that you (the rider) made the same, consistant input on both settings. These folks can tell the difference between tucking the front or losing the back.

There's a lotta skill and confidence involved. Some folks are just better at WFO til the last possible microsecond, have no fear of swapping some paint, and can crack the throttle before you, while you're watching him/her gap the outta ya'.

Some of it is practice, practice, practice and some folks just have that "gift" of getting the signals from the brain sorted out quicker than others. I've found with age - those signals get slower and slower
thank you, and well said!

Tom, your words couldn't be truer!
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
I'll go one further on this.

To be a good instructor doesn't necessarily mean you have to be fast either. A good instructor is able to help students get understanding and application of the skills and techniques that is within the subject. Mostly, this means communication.

While I personally believe that a good instructor also has racing experience to some degree and has displayed proficiency themselves with the skills and techniques to be presented, that doesn't always translate to speed either.

I'll take myself as an example. I've had plenty of people come up and say, "man, you're fast", while I know perfectly well that there are a TON of other folks who are so much faster than me on the same machines. I may be "fast" to them, but to the guy next to me, I'm freakin' slow. The difference is, that as an instructor, I may be more successful in helping a student understand the skills and techniques they need to be successful on the track, while that other person next to me can't even begin to get the point across. Not saying that is the case, just an illustration.

Not everyone can teach, and not everyone can be fast, fewer still can do both effectively

Well said!
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:13 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
I'll go one further on this.

To be a good instructor doesn't necessarily mean you have to be fast either. A good instructor is able to help students get understanding and application of the skills and techniques that is within the subject. Mostly, this means communication.

While I personally believe that a good instructor also has racing experience to some degree and has displayed proficiency themselves with the skills and techniques to be presented, that doesn't always translate to speed either.

I'll take myself as an example. I've had plenty of people come up and say, "man, you're fast", while I know perfectly well that there are a TON of other folks who are so much faster than me on the same machines. I may be "fast" to them, but to the guy next to me, I'm freakin' slow. The difference is, that as an instructor, I may be more successful in helping a student understand the skills and techniques they need to be successful on the track, while that other person next to me can't even begin to get the point across. Not saying that is the case, just an illustration.

Not everyone can teach, and not everyone can be fast, fewer still can do both effectively

I have ridden with Tom several track days. He is being modest....he is FAST and smooth. He is also an excellent instructor. There, your horn has been officially tooted. Now pass that track pipe over here!
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:25 AM   #12
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More importantly, what makes a rider Candie Fast?

Kidding, but wise words from Tom as usual

I think your question has been answered.
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Old 06-04-2008, 08:46 AM   #13
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The ability to bust a wheelie out every now and then without being caught by the track marshall.

j/k I think people that holds their line somebody is always going to be faster.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:12 AM   #14
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I'm by no means an expert (there is always something to learn, for me more than others), but it seems to me that someone who is smooth with throttle, braking and steering inputs, picks a proper line and holds it, does not endanger or take-out other riders, and UNDERSTANDS his/her bikes and personal limits (physical and mental) and is able to push to these limits makes up a good track rider.

Also, any rider named Jerran V...
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:21 AM   #15
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I think you all are ghey. That's what makes you fast.
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Old 06-04-2008, 09:29 AM   #16
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I think you all are ghey. That's what makes you fast.
I'll scratch your eyes out...
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:03 AM   #17
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More importantly, what makes a rider Candie Fast?


Now now Gary! Not everyone can be Candie Fahst!
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:14 AM   #18
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I think a good track rider is very similar to a good track driver. When we were instructing we looked for consistent lines; being smooth particularly at turn in, braking, and with the throttle; driving/riding in a very predictable manner; overtaking and being overtaken safely and driving reasonably fast. I've had several people say sub 1:50's is a decent time at MSR-H, and sub 2:00's at TWS (Texas World Speedway) on a bike.

Speed around the track is definitely a factor.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:30 AM   #19
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Thanks guys for all your honest responses!
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:31 AM   #20
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