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Old 05-12-2008, 06:04 PM   #81
Daytona_Rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMagicMan View Post
How about to and from work. My mom owns her own business. She does not own the property but she rents the storefront. Could she walk from her car to the business? My mom actually asked me to post this. Plus I work here also. Could I do the same even though I don't rent it? But I am a signer for the company. Christmas time gets kinda sketchy. There have been several car jackings and roberies at gunpoint.

This is a gray area of the law. You own a business but not the property it sits on. The law does not go into detail about that situation and is mainly written to cover to and from residence. However, the law does state property that is in your control. The business is under your control but not the parking lot....see the dilemma.

I think it would be best if you contacted your attorney to help you to figure out exactly what you/your mom controls and the legal definitions regarding a person's business and this law. I don't want to give information and since the law (like many others) leaves some gray area in the matter...it'd be best to let the lawyers figure that out.
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Old 05-12-2008, 06:18 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PB125 View Post
For arguements sake, based on the thread starter, The victim, as he walked across the street, could have capped the SOB (Suspect) as he attempted to ride away.
You can't use deadly force to recover property. E.g., you're in your house and you hear someone breaking into your car. You run outside and see someone driving off in your car. Know that you are NOT justified in shooting the person so as to retain your property.

Same would go in the situation described above w/ respect to the m/c jacking. Once the guy starts driving away, it'd be VERY difficult (not impossible) to show that the use of deadly force would be justified in that situation. How are you in fear of your life when the assailant is driving away on your motorcycle (presumably w/ both hands on the controls) and when his accomplice is driving away as well?

Further, once the guy is driving off on the motorcycle, the robbery has already been commited. You can't prevent something that has already happened, so it'd be difficult to use the last sentence of the penal code in that situation (i.e. once the guy is already leaving).
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Old 05-12-2008, 06:29 PM   #83
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At least that's my understanding...
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Old 05-12-2008, 06:42 PM   #84
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Best wishes man. Hope it works out for you. I know many have said it, including yourself, it's just nuts and bolts. You on the other hand, well your' health and safety are much more than that.

I've been robbed at gunpoint as well and the feeling is undescribeable. Hope you find peace, and although you feel anger right now, search for a positive here. The silver lining is always there, you just have to look a little harder sometimes.
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Old 05-12-2008, 10:13 PM   #85
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Bike stolen

Penal codes 9.41 and 9.42 address the "Protection of one's property" using force and deadly force. They specifically address "recovering" and "protecting" one's property.

Some of the statements in this thread about what xaflatoonx could or could not have done are incorrect. Read the codes. Then have them "translated" by someone qualified. They are there for the person being robbed, assaulted, burglared, etc. However, something to remember is third party involvement. Any "reckless injury of innocent third party" is prosecutable.

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Old 05-12-2008, 10:14 PM   #86
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uh...he said penal
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Old 05-12-2008, 10:51 PM   #87
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9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person
in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,
movable property by another is justified in using force against the
other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force
is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the
property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit

after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no
claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using
force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.


9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:05 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjkfta View Post
9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person
in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,
movable property by another is justified in using force against the
other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force
is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the
property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit

after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no
claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using
force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.


9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.
Whoa! I stand wholly corrected. My apologies. I swear that I've learned differently...or just remembered incorrectly.
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:15 PM   #89
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wow not only can you not leave your bike no people just jack you while you are on it crazy!!!! sorry to hear
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Old 05-13-2008, 06:35 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmckee View Post
Exactly,
Have to take into consideration all the innocent bystanders if you miss, or if your round is powerful enough to go through the enemy.
I would have gotten off the bike, my gack is readily available in a blink and I would have blasted that perp with RBCD ammo, doesnt go through because it explodes , tiny little atom bomb thingy inside. check it out at www.rbcd.net I have a video when solracer and I shot a gallon of water with a .40 rbcd and then slowed the video down to see the real action. devastating. I also have a page where I did tests with FMJ mmo and RBCD with a 5 layer bullet proof glass, the FMJ made a little spider break, the rbcd looked like a softball size of powdered sugar in all 5 layers and you can see the explosion shock waves in the glass in how it broke, amazing and for $2.00 each, worth every penny when the time comes, one shot he's down. If he survives the wound explosion, his brain wont survive the shock waves.
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Old 05-13-2008, 06:47 AM   #91
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Only problem I see with something like the RBCD is the liberal lawyer going after you because of the in-humane ammo you chose to carry. It has happened before with hollow points.
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Old 05-13-2008, 06:56 AM   #92
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^ yup, better to just carry what the cops carry.
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Old 05-13-2008, 07:17 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
In spite of the comments about what you shoulda done, know that you did the right thing for your situation. Your number 1 priority, when a gun is pointed at you is to 1). stay alive and 2). not get shot or hurt. You accomplished both of those things. Trying to save the bike is a distant third. In the overall scheme of things, the bike itself is relatively trivial though I know it's immensely aggravating to lose one to theft.

Congrats for acting in a manner that let you live to talk about it. Condolences on losing the bike. I hope it's recovered intact and that the carjacking predators die young.
+1000000

well said
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Old 05-13-2008, 07:32 AM   #94
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Man, that sucks. After hearing similar stories like this, I will be sure I ride in safe areas at night. Also I will be sure that if I must ride in the SW side at night, I will ride in more populated streets. Riding around on a bike in shady areas is no fun. I'd rather do it in a car with tinted windows. On a bike you are exposed.

I hope they find your ride. My friend got his bike stolen at his apartment complex, I figured they would have chopped his Gixxer by now. This was 3 months ago. Well, the police found a guy riding my friend's gixxer yesterday with different plates. After a chase he ditched the bike. The only damage done was to the fairings.

But you have insurance. My friend did not. naggers.
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Old 05-13-2008, 07:50 AM   #95
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Old 05-13-2008, 08:04 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
Only problem I see with something like the RBCD is the liberal lawyer going after you because of the in-humane ammo you chose to carry. It has happened before with hollow points.
Hehe. I wonder what they would think about the 9mm hollowpoints filled with birdshot that stay in my magazines.
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Old 05-13-2008, 08:08 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjkfta View Post
9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person
in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,
movable property by another is justified in using force against the
other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force
is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the
property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit

after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no
claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using
force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.


9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.
that was kinda my stance in this... i'm glad i can do what i would want to do it that situation
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Old 05-13-2008, 08:13 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbfuller View Post
that was kinda my stance in this... i'm glad i can do what i would want to do it that situation
Gotta love Texas!
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Old 05-13-2008, 08:20 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbfuller View Post
that was kinda my stance in this... i'm glad i can do what i would want to do it that situation
yay! thats the answer i was looking for. good to know we can protect our shiz. Sorry but a bullet in his may make him wreck the bike, but it's better than never seeing my bike again.
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Old 05-13-2008, 08:23 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMagicMan View Post
How about to and from work. My mom owns her own business. She does not own the property but she rents the storefront. Could she walk from her car to the business? My mom actually asked me to post this. Plus I work here also. Could I do the same even though I don't rent it? But I am a signer for the company. Christmas time gets kinda sketchy. There have been several car jackings and roberies at gunpoint.
Chad just take her to get her CHL. Be a great Mother's Day gift. I am sure with little or no practice she would pass it. My mom had never shot a gun before and we were at the range and gave her the CHL silhouette and scored her identical to the CHL test and she scored way above the minimum.
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