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Old 05-09-2008, 09:50 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrofallout View Post
First of all. That's pretty much what it would be like if someone took my bike (taking my first born). Secondly, that's not the issue, the issue is we are being singled out.
we are just another scapegoat for society. our society has always had some historically. hot rodders with their gassers, lowriders, harley gangs, metal punks, gang banger lookalikes, ricers, we dont have it that bad compared to none of them actually.
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Old 05-09-2008, 09:58 AM   #42
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Quote:
First of all. That's pretty much what it would be like if someone took my bike (taking my first born). Secondly, that's not the issue, the issue is we are being singled out.
We're being singled out? Haven't really seen evidence of that here in Texas or Houston.
In Florida...maybe..

http://www1.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/MI39374/

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/03/379.asp

Seems to me, that in general.. Florida is trying to solv a problem with hazardous driving behaviours. Not 'just' targetting MC's, or 'crotch rockets'.
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:46 AM   #43
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I think you guys who think our bikes can't be confiscated should re-read this part of the previous post:

For those who are unaware of what Civil Forfeiture might mean to you, here's a few
highlights. You are NOT entitled to a trial by jury. You are NOT entitled to an
Attorney (except if you want to pay a $10k retainer yourself to regain $4000 worth
of personal property). You are guilty until proven innocent and the burden of
proving your innocence is on YOU, at your expense. Even if you are acquitted or
found not guilty of any charges, THEY CAN STILL KEEP YOUR MOTORCYCLE.

It goes without saying that once motorcycles are targeted in any way for
confiscation, by law, law enforcement will add that to their list of revenue
generation. This happens daily already. Bikers are pulled over and cited for minor
infractions, such as handlebar height, and their bikes are confiscated. Even if the
citation is invalid and proven so, the owner must still pay very high fees to
release his/her property from impoundment. If the process takes too long, the
property may be sold, and the owner will never recover the property at all, or the
money it was sold for.

I have personal experience with items being siezed. I don't want to get into that right now, but TRUST ME. The state is all about making $$, lots of it, off siezed assets. To them it is revenue. Don't think it's not real because it is. And it IS true, you have very little legal rights once something is siezed. Oh yeah, and the TWO people who work down at the siezure office are quite overwhelmed besides lazy. (My lawyer was the head lady's former proffessor.) So before you start accusing me of "the sky is falling," guess what we are already in the clouds buddy.
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:04 PM   #44
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Don't drink the bong water, quit smoking the wacky weed and go back and READ our repsonses and your own words.

Now..

1> The news article you refer to was in TOLEDO, Ohio. You do know that is a completely different state & city don't you?
2> The bill you're going apeshit over is for FLORIDA Again, a different STATE.

Can you provide any proposed bills/legislation here in Texas.

IF I had to hazard a bet, your experience in regards to 'siezure' has something to do with drugs or federal siezure and the process in regards to those is a tad different from the bill you refer to IN FLORIDA.
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:14 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulric View Post
Don't drink the bong water, quit smoking the wacky weed and go back and READ our repsonses and your own words.

Now..

1> The news article you refer to was in TOLEDO, Ohio. You do know that is a completely different state & city don't you?
2> The bill you're going apeshit over is for FLORIDA Again, a different STATE.

Can you provide any proposed bills/legislation here in Texas.

IF I had to hazard a bet, your experience in regards to 'siezure' has something to do with drugs or federal siezure and the process in regards to those is a tad different from the bill you refer to IN FLORIDA.
I'm pretty sure he realizes this is FL. His point is that if one state can do it and is bringing in revenue from this source, other states are likely to follow suit. The more states that establish this law, the harder it will be to fight. I agree with this matter, stop it before it gets out of hand. And on a side note, wtf is the point of calling out people on the interet? Do you even know this guy? Insinuating that he is involved with drug seizures? WTF mang?
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Last edited by Pyrofallout; 05-09-2008 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:25 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrofallout View Post
wtf is the point of calling out people on the interet? Do you even know this guy? Insinuating that he is involved with drug seizures? WTF mang?
I'm NOT the one that posted this
Quote:
I have personal experience with items being siezed. I don't want to get into that right now, but TRUST ME.
, now am I?
Don't want someone to comment on something...don't speak it. I could be wrong, but that's probably the most common 'siezure' of that type here in texas. Did I rag the guy about it.. no, I made a statement relevant to the information/comment provided by him.


Quote:
I'm pretty sure he realizes this is FL. His point is that if one state can do it and is bringing in revenue from this source, other states are likely to follow suit.
Hmm like DC and gun control? Or massachusettes(sp?)

I'm sorry... yes there is reason to watch for these bills, to pay attention to legal changes etc. The 'tone' and manner of which he posts and comments in regards to this, is akin to someone in full blown panic/spastic mode. Not too mention, as has been pointed out in regards to his own 'email' likely to do more harm than good.
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:43 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulric View Post
Don't drink the bong water, quit smoking the wacky weed and go back and READ our repsonses and your own words.

Now..

1> The news article you refer to was in TOLEDO, Ohio. You do know that is a completely different state & city don't you?
2> The bill you're going apeshit over is for FLORIDA Again, a different STATE.

Can you provide any proposed bills/legislation here in Texas.

IF I had to hazard a bet, your experience in regards to 'siezure' has something to do with drugs or federal siezure and the process in regards to those is a tad different from the bill you refer to IN FLORIDA.



Pyrofallout hit it right on the head. Yes it is an article in Ohio and a bill in Florida. The point is, if you can see this coming, why not get our ducks in a row now? The people in Florida didn't, and look what they ended up with. Why not suggest something pro active, like educating squids on gear, and the dangers of stunting on the freeway? You sound smart. Do you have any ideas on how to stop squidly behavior? Once Texas sees how easy and profitable it is to sieze motorcycles, why wouldn't they start to as well? The reasons for my siezures are not the topic of this conversation. I simply brought them up to reiterate how helpless one is once items are taken. Right or wrong, possession is 90% of the law.

Back to the point. This author relayed a biased and uninformed story generalizing all sportbikers. I take offense to that. Substitute Christans or blacks for bikers and I think you would have a different opinion. Especially without getting one iota of information or proof to back it up, not interview not one motorcyclist, and to simply make gross generalizations about cyclists. You emailed him, good, that was all I was asking for in this thread. I hope you feel your voice was heard and you will most likely get a cookie cutter response. I emailed him as well, and hopefully next time he will bring some pertinent information to the table.

Such as:
Statistics revealing the number of sportbikes vs cruisers that have wrecked
# of fatalities on sportbikes vs cruisers or even cars
# of drunk driving arrests in vehicles vs sportbikes
ect...
I would consider that some real reporting.
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:51 PM   #48
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:58 PM   #49
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how can anyone take that article seriously? it reads like it was written by a 12 year old...
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:07 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by didimao0072000 View Post
how can anyone take that article seriously? it reads like it was written by a 12 year old...
+100000
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:24 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiatool View Post
Pyrofallout hit it right on the head. Yes it is an article in Ohio and a bill in Florida. The point is, if you can see this coming, why not get our ducks in a row now? The people in Florida didn't, and look what they ended up with. Why not suggest something pro active, like educating squids on gear, and the dangers of stunting on the freeway? You sound smart. Do you have any ideas on how to stop squidly behavior?
Do you read most the posts in this forum or just look at the pictures?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiatool View Post
Once Texas sees how easy and profitable it is to sieze motorcycles, why wouldn't they start to as well? The reasons for my siezures are not the topic of this conversation. I simply brought them up to reiterate how helpless one is once items are taken. Right or wrong, possession is 90% of the law.
Uhm, so another words with a decade+ of being able to sieze property already you think their clueless and don't realize how 'easy' it would be.
Siezure is depends on the laws that support them...that comes into it being important WHY something was 'siezed'. I'd LOVE to see some actual REAL LIFE examples such as your
Quote:
This happens daily already. Bikers are pulled over and cited for minor
infractions, such as handlebar height, and their bikes are confiscated.
.

As I stated earlier, the topic and issue is not something to be addressed with rants/raves, exageration and melodrama. To once again refer to your email. It's tone is such that most people would be likely to immediately discard/delete rather than read it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tiatool View Post
Back to the point. This author relayed a biased and uninformed story generalizing all sportbikers. I take offense to that. Substitute Christans or blacks for bikers and I think you would have a different opinion. Especially without getting one iota of information or proof to back it up, not interview not one motorcyclist, and to simply make gross generalizations about cyclists. You emailed him, good, that was all I was asking for in this thread. I hope you feel your voice was heard and you will most likely get a cookie cutter response. I emailed him as well, and hopefully next time he will bring some pertinent information to the table.

Such as:
Statistics revealing the number of sportbikes vs cruisers that have wrecked
# of fatalities on sportbikes vs cruisers or even cars
# of drunk driving arrests in vehicles vs sportbikes
ect...
I would consider that some real reporting.

Biased? His article is poorly written...but I hardly see a biased opinion. Just a poorly researched and informed one. <shrug> Personally I don't see Toledo as a huge 'mecca' and I imagine the writers pay is about on spot for his quality.
If I had to guess, he was told/instructed to write some short blurb, that he had no interest in doing in the first place, much less was he likely given the time/allowance that would be needed to attempt to write something the scope of what you want to see.


p.s. Are YOU a member of AMA Tia?
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:02 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiatool View Post
I think you guys who think our bikes can't be confiscated should re-read this part of the previous post:

For those who are unaware of what Civil Forfeiture might mean to you, here's a few
highlights. You are NOT entitled to a trial by jury. You are NOT entitled to an
Attorney (except if you want to pay a $10k retainer yourself to regain $4000 worth
of personal property). You are guilty until proven innocent and the burden of

proving your innocence is on YOU, at your expense. Even if you are acquitted or
found not guilty of any charges, THEY CAN STILL KEEP YOUR MOTORCYCLE.

It goes without saying that once motorcycles are targeted in any way for
confiscation, by law, law enforcement will add that to their list of revenue
generation. This happens daily already. Bikers are pulled over and cited for minor
infractions, such as handlebar height, and their bikes are confiscated. Even if the
citation is invalid and proven so, the owner must still pay very high fees to
release his/her property from impoundment. If the process takes too long, the
property may be sold, and the owner will never recover the property at all, or the
money it was sold for.

I have personal experience with items being siezed. I don't want to get into that right now, but TRUST ME. The state is all about making $$, lots of it, off siezed assets. To them it is revenue. Don't think it's not real because it is. And it IS true, you have very little legal rights once something is siezed. Oh yeah, and the TWO people who work down at the siezure office are quite overwhelmed besides lazy. (My lawyer was the head lady's former proffessor.) So before you start accusing me of "the sky is falling," guess what we are already in the clouds buddy.

you might want to re check that info pollo paquito. do you even know what civil forfeiture is? you are correct on provision of burden of proof by defendent simply because he/she is a third party claimant but you have your civil and criminal forfeiture mixed up a tad bit there.

look up these before you decide to say something ignorant about the legalities in question again. thanks. dont be so paranoid.

United States v. 785 St. Nicholas Ave., 983 F.2d 396, 401-02 (2d Cir. 1992)

U.S. v. James Daniel Good Real Property, 510 U.S. 43 (1993)

Bennis v. Michigan, 517 U.S. 1163 (1996)

civil forfeiture
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/981.html

criminal forfeiture

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/982.html

P.S your lawyer is a dumbass if he cant get you out of a civil forfeiture case in texas. Give me a call next time you need real legal representation.
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Old 05-11-2008, 02:22 AM   #53
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