MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > General Discussion > General Discussion (Moto Related)
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


Like us on Facebook! Regular shirt GIVEAWAYS and more

Advertisement

Closed Thread
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 04-09-2008, 02:05 PM   #1
cashtown
Lawyers Guns and Money
 
cashtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hunt, TX HWY 39
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,955

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
'05 Hayabusa '98 ZX-6E









Death Bikers V. Wheelie your face off!

I don't want to argue about wheelies on public roads, really. What I'm really interested in discussing is something else I hear pretty regularly around here.

The first thing mentioned when decrying wheelies on publid roads is: "You could kill some innoccent motorists. What about that minivan full of children!!?? What if you killed my family!!??"

And I'm sure that there are cases to be found where a biker took out another motorist or some pedestrians and killed them - but I'm not really interested in the specific isolated cases - I'd like somebody to bring me some stats that indicate the likelihood of actually getting killed by a Captain Insano runaway stunt rider on public roads.

How often does it happen? How many motorists are seriously injured by bikers every year?

Sure you could wheelie your bike into a car and kill some kids, but how often does that happen? Is it a founded fear to have?

I can only think of three cases in this area off the top off my head where a second party was killed in an accident inolving a motorcycle - the SUV that cut off a biker on the loop, and rolled, ejecting the driver and killing her, the 14 year old kid that died after his dad failed to yield right of way in Brazoria County, and Roger. None of those involved stunting, per se, and only one was undeniably the rider's fault.

I guess I just think it's funny how often I hear people say how dangerous wheelies are to the general public - but I never hear any evidence to support this.

Anybody got stats?
__________________
freak20brothers



Fat Freddy says, "Busas are for posing!"
cashtown is offline  
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
It's all the "FOREIGN BIKERS" that make us US bikers look bad Track_Graphics General Discussion (Moto Related) 7 05-07-2014 08:39 AM
Wheelie = Death fuknrobert Off Topic 10 06-25-2006 05:48 AM
Advertisement
Old 04-09-2008, 02:06 PM   #2
txgsxrbob
THE SH*T STARTER IS BACK
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 290 @ mason --cypress
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 5,859


Bike(s):
06 GSXR 1K SOLD !
2012 R1 Moto GP replica # 1287








??? contact RACER X he's full of all kinds of sh*t ! he'll even piece a story together for you .........if you would like
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by abelrob View Post
I would join in but my KAWI is BROKE THE FU*K down again SO I BOUGHT A BUSA !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pester View Post
NOW WHERE IS TXGSXRBOB WHEN WE NEED HIM????
txgsxrbob is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:07 PM   #3
txferrari
Banned
 
txferrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Katy
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 10,090

Experience: 10+ years











User is banned

.
txferrari is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:14 PM   #4
cashtown
Lawyers Guns and Money
 
cashtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hunt, TX HWY 39
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,955

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
'05 Hayabusa '98 ZX-6E









Yes, I believe that when actin' a fool on the streets you are MUCH more likely to injure/kill yourself damage others' cars/property etc. But how likely are you to kill/seriously injure someone else?
__________________
freak20brothers



Fat Freddy says, "Busas are for posing!"
cashtown is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:16 PM   #5
Ulric
Dirty Old
 
Ulric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Spring
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 9,633

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
05 FZ1









...interesting. No wheelie, but speed it'self appears to be a possible issue.

http://www.motohouston.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=51117
That SUV looks prudy don't it?

Hmm then last year, the kid that did the wheelie into the side of an SUV...don't think there were any fatalies... and those are just the ones I recall popping up here on mh.
__________________
"new joke tomorrow..."
Ulric is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:22 PM   #6
cashtown
Lawyers Guns and Money
 
cashtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hunt, TX HWY 39
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,955

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
'05 Hayabusa '98 ZX-6E









^ The one in Brazoria is the one I mentioned, biker speed MAY have played a part - (assumption) verifiable fact is that the cager did not yield right of way to the biker.

The wheelie into the car I sort of remember - no cager injuries though, if I recall correctly.

And anyway, these are specific incidences. I could probably find specific incidences of people getting killed by errant lawn darts, but finding one wouldn't necessarily mean that you stand a decewnt chance of getting killed by somebody recklessly tossing lawn darts.

I want numbers from TXDOT or NHTSA or some such org. that identifies the likelihood of a motorist/pedestrian getting killed by a biker, or just the overall number of those killed by motorcyclists in a recent year.

I'll bet it's pretty low.
__________________
freak20brothers



Fat Freddy says, "Busas are for posing!"
cashtown is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:25 PM   #7
gixxerbill
Senior Member
 
gixxerbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: North Corpus Christi
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 6,557

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
K5 GSXR 1000
2008 Goldwing 1832 cc
Bourget Low Blow Chopper







You won't see any stats because their ain't any. RacerX will be pulling them out of his if there is. The reason they bring that up is because they are HATERS and can't wheelie PERIOD.
__________________
Sifu tz is the ultimate poser. He post on motohouston without owning a bike and he posts the corvette forum without owning a vette.... = LOSER!
gixxerbill is online now  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:27 PM   #8
Ulric
Dirty Old
 
Ulric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Spring
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 9,633

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
05 FZ1









Quote:
Originally Posted by cashtown View Post
^ The one in Brazoria is the one I mentioned, biker speed MAY have played a part - (assumption) verifiable fact is that the cager did not yield right of way to the biker.

The wheelie into the car I sort of remember - no cager injuries though, if I recall correctly.

And anyway, these are specific incidences. I could probably find specific incidences of people getting killed by errant lawn darts, but finding one wouldn't necessarily mean that you stand a decewnt chance of getting killed by somebody recklessly tossing lawn darts.

I want numbers from TXDOT or NHTSA or some such org. that identifies the likelihood of a motorist/pedestrian getting killed by a biker, or just the overall number of those killed by motorcyclists in a recent year.

I'll bet it's pretty low.

^ The one in Brazoria is the one I mentioned, biker speed MAY have played a part - (assumption) verifiable fact is that the cager did not yield right of way to the biker.

Biker may have had headlight out etc, lotta variables. Still need to keep it in consideration.

Quote:
The wheelie into the car I sort of remember - no cager injuries though, if I recall correctly.
as I recall no details wre provided about the suv/passengers. To claim they were unscathed...would be idiotic. Degree of injury/trauma would be another matter...

pulled from a google...

And while it's not clear how many deaths and injuries can be attributed to stunting, it's obvious that the activity is dangerous.

According to police reports, a Kansas City motorcyclist was injured in October 2005 while speeding and "driving carelessly". He had been popping a wheelie driving with the front tire in the air after dark, so oncoming traffic couldn't see his headlight, which was pointing upward.

When a car pulled out in front of him, the motorcycle plowed into the vehicle. " -Kansas


You're likely to find anything with a database that allows you to seperate accidents involving fatalies in a car/truck etc that were caused by a motorcycle.
.
__________________
"new joke tomorrow..."
Ulric is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:31 PM   #9
Ulric
Dirty Old
 
Ulric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Spring
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 9,633

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
05 FZ1









Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxerbill View Post
You won't see any stats because their ain't any. RacerX will be pulling them out of his if there is. The reason they bring that up is because they are HATERS and can't wheelie PERIOD.
Well you got the first part right... the problem from there is you have a bunch of immature kids with their arseholes shoved too far up their rectal cavity to understand the potential dangers/risks placed on others.

No, none of us are 'perfect' (ghod that stupid, pathetic little dodge of responsiblity is old and retarded)...but there's a difference in acting up on occasion... then trying to glorify, justify or promote that can of stupidity.
__________________
"new joke tomorrow..."
Ulric is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:32 PM   #10
gixxerbill
Senior Member
 
gixxerbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: North Corpus Christi
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 6,557

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
K5 GSXR 1000
2008 Goldwing 1832 cc
Bourget Low Blow Chopper







Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulric View Post
According to police reports, a Kansas City motorcyclist was injured in October 2005 while speeding and "driving carelessly". He had been popping a wheelie driving with the front tire in the air after dark, so oncoming traffic couldn't see his headlight, which was pointing upward.

When a car pulled out in front of him, the motorcycle plowed into the vehicle. " -Kansas


Y
.
That guy was a squid. Everybody knows you are suppose to have a headlight mounted on the bottom of the bike for night wheelies or you should stay on a freeway with a mediun divider to prevent headons.
__________________
Sifu tz is the ultimate poser. He post on motohouston without owning a bike and he posts the corvette forum without owning a vette.... = LOSER!
gixxerbill is online now  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:35 PM   #11
cashtown
Lawyers Guns and Money
 
cashtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hunt, TX HWY 39
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,955

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
'05 Hayabusa '98 ZX-6E









^ unlikely to find them because the stat is insignificant?

I'd bet that if the number were remarkable someone would be remarking about it. Headline would read: "NHTSB Reports Dramatic Rise in Highway Deaths Caused by Motorcyclists. 3,700 killed last year by reckless riders."
__________________
freak20brothers



Fat Freddy says, "Busas are for posing!"
cashtown is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:37 PM   #12
cashtown
Lawyers Guns and Money
 
cashtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hunt, TX HWY 39
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,955

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
'05 Hayabusa '98 ZX-6E









Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulric View Post
Well you got the first part right... the problem from there is you have a bunch of immature kids with their arseholes shoved too far up their rectal cavity to understand the potential dangers/risks placed on others.

No, none of us are 'perfect' (ghod that stupid, pathetic little dodge of responsiblity is old and retarded)...but there's a difference in acting up on occasion... then trying to glorify, justify or promote that can of stupidity.
I'm not at all "glorifying, justifying, or attempting to promote" that kind of stupidity. I just think there are other reasons that can be offered up as arguments against public-road wheelies other than "You will kill some innoccent person." ---It just doesn't happen often enough to be a viable complaint.
__________________
freak20brothers



Fat Freddy says, "Busas are for posing!"
cashtown is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:48 PM   #13
Crystalline
Can't ride now...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 9,376

Experience: 2 years
Trackdays: 1











Send a message via Yahoo to Crystalline
This one is not about stunting, but about accidents (not in our country).

EuroRAP: Roads Getting Safer: Too Many Avoidable Deaths
Britain's roads are getting safer to drive on, according to an AA Motoring Trust report that assesses the risk of road users being killed or seriously injured. The report, EuroRAP 2005: British Results, analyses accident data from 850 main roads and colour-codes them on Risk-Rate maps under standards set by the European Road Assessment Programme (EuroRAP). The Trust's report also reveals that if similar road types, such as single carriageway roads, with above-average risk rates improved to just the average safety rating, more than 200 lives would be saved annually.

A "mini massacre" of motorcyclists on some rural main roads continues to undermine significant safety improvements. The impact of motorcycling is such that the most high-risk road listed the A537, Buxton-Macclesfield would be among Britain's safer roads if there were no motorcycle accidents.

The key results from the report are:

British roads are getting safer roads rated as high- or medium-risk for death and serious injury have fallen by almost 30 per cent since 2002;
The risk of death or serious injury on Britain's roads is one of the lowest in Europe;
Highest-risk roads are ten times more dangerous than the safest;
Large numbers of motorcycling accidents on some rural roads undermine the overall improvement in the safety of Britain's highways;
On the most dangerous stretches of road, one person, and as many as seven, is killed or seriously injured for every mile over the three-year measurement period;
60 per cent of road deaths (more than 70 per cent in Scotland) occur outside built-up areas, mostly on single carriageway roads.
The AA Motoring Trust's recommendations for reducing fatal and serious collisions are:

Set a target and a budget to make all higher-risk roads of a similar type perform as well as the average rating. This would reduce collisions by 20 per cent, and save about 200 lives and 1,500 serious injuries annually;
Focus on proven, cost-effective improvements, such as: installing crash barriers to prevent head-on collisions and "run-off" accidents; realigning junctions; improving white lining and traffic signing;
Achieve speed compliance on high-risk roads by using conventional and vehicle-activated speed limit signs, and highly visible speed cameras on sections known to be dangerous.
Bert Morris, director of the AA Motoring Trust says: "We now know the roads where deaths and serious injuries are routine and predictable. Our analysis highlights where resources can be targeted to save most lives. 'Big-wins' in road safety, such as compulsory seatbelt wearing or changing attitudes to drink-driving have saved thousands of lives.

"The report shows how relatively simple road-engineering solutions, together with speed compliance technology, on 'unforgiving' roads could also slash the death toll on British roads. All roads can be made much safer for the great majority of responsible road users."

Morris adds: "The identification of the relative dangers of British roads has yet to provoke a major public response. There would be an outcry if similar league tables were published about the relative safety of different stretches of railway, even though death and injury rates are far lower than on roads."

The AA Motoring Trust's EuroRAP Risk-Rate map for Britain shows 'higher- risk' roads in black (high) or red (medium-high). Medium-risk roads are coloured yellow, low-medium risk roads are light green and low-risk roads dark green. The map tells drivers how their risk of being in a crash changes significantly as they move from one stretch of road to another.

Most improved roads (Table 1)

The report lists 18 roads that have recorded a significant reduction in fatal and serious collisions of between 34 per cent and 78 per cent. For example, the A505, Leighton Buzzard-A5, where the number of fatal and serious collisions was reduced from 18 to 4 after speed-limit reduction and enforcement with fixed and mobile cameras; and the A28 Ashford-Margate, listed as "higher-risk" in 2003, now features as a "most improved" as a result of junction improvements, resurfacing, and installation of cycling and pedestrian facilities.

Consistently higher-risk roads (Table 2)

These are roads (coloured black and red) that continue to appear as high-risk on the annual Risk-Rate map and also have high accident density.

Typically they are single-carriageway roads running through rural, often hilly, areas such as the Peak District;
Fatal and serious collisions have fallen on some of these roads but they remain "higher-risk" because risk-rates on other roads are reducing more rapidly. For example, the A534 in Cheshire, from the Welsh border to Nantwich, remains "higher risk" even though fatal and serious collisions reduced from 35 to 19 a 46 per cent reduction.
Higher-risk roads with high motorcycle involvement in collisions (Table 3)

Motorcycle-involved accidents are often either in, or on the way to, attractive destinations, such as national parks or the coast;
Last year's worst performing road (the A537, Macclesfield-Buxton) suffered 27 fatal and serious collisions, of which 26 involved motorcycles. Although a major reduction in collisions was achieved in the 2001-2003 period (22 fatal and serious accidents, 20 involving motorcycles), the road heads the list again this year;
Were motorcycle accidents to be removed from the statistics, the A537 would be among Britain's safer roads;
On more than 160 (19 per cent) of the 850 roads studied, at least one third of all fatal and serious collisions involved motorcycles;
These figures show that road-user education is not enough. Also needed is action, involving road engineering, as well as high-profile enforcement to deter speeding, to cut accidents and to reduce the severity of injuries in accidents that do occur.
Higher-risk roads with motorcycle risk removed (Table 4)

These are mostly single-carriageway roads where:

There is greater risk of high speed, head-on crashes;
Junction crashes are high-impact;
Vulnerable road users are at risk.
The roads are almost entirely rural or semi-urban. Many of them are stretches of road through rural areas, villages and the outskirts of towns, where the higher concentration of junctions, with the presence of pedestrians and cyclists, raises the risk of serious collisions. For example, the A1101 where the primary network goes through the centre of Wisbech and the A61 between Barnsley and Wakefield that passes through several villages.

Britain compared with other countries (Table 5)

The risk rate on Britain's roads is one of the lowest in Europe;
The British risk rate is similar to that of the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland;
The British risk rate for single-carriageway roads is higher than that of Sweden a 12.4 fatal collision rate per billion km compared to 7.7 in Sweden. However, similar roads in Sweden tend to bypass towns and villages, and have central crash barriers on some single-carriageway roads. The risk rate for single-carriageway roads in Spain is 23.2.
The road look-up table giving details for over 850 sections of inter-urban roads in mainland Britain can be found at www.eurorap.org.

http://www.iam.org.uk/motoringtrust/...abledeaths.htm
__________________
sunshine
Crystalline is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:52 PM   #14
Crystalline
Can't ride now...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 9,376

Experience: 2 years
Trackdays: 1











Send a message via Yahoo to Crystalline
A pretty cool website: http://www.arrivealive.vic.gov.au/node/154
__________________
sunshine
Crystalline is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:52 PM   #15
RACER X
what R you lookin' at?
 
RACER X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Richmond, Tx
Feedback Rating: (26)
Posts: 33,497

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 8

Bike(s):
'14 Honda GROM! 181cc of fury!!
'10 Aprilia Tuono Factory-SOLD
'08 Busa - sold
A few more bought
A few more sold






there are no stats, it'll be written down in the police report as failure to control veh.

friend died on westpark, back when it was the stunt spot. came down from a wheelie into a u-turning car. took 2 other riders down w/ it.

friend died on allen pkwy, 120+, ran head on into a drunk driver, 2 motorcyclist died.

how do people fly off overpasses? 1 died last week.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
2014 GROM
181cc's BABY!
Trump/Zimmerman 2016
Make America Great Again!

Last edited by RACER X; 04-09-2008 at 02:54 PM.
RACER X is online now  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:55 PM   #16
Ulric
Dirty Old
 
Ulric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Spring
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 9,633

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
05 FZ1









Quote:
Originally Posted by cashtown View Post
I'm not at all "glorifying, justifying, or attempting to promote" that kind of stupidity. I just think there are other reasons that can be offered up as arguments against public-road wheelies other than "You will kill some innoccent person." ---It just doesn't happen often enough to be a viable complaint.
sorry cash, that was directed at GB. Tiat for tat, etc...

However, consider the # of accidents that take place..and the mental state many of the victims are in.
Take the wheelie/SuV on 1960... with the right 'setting'
how would anyone except a 3rd party witness know what took place.
The Driver just knows they didn't see anything & BAM.
The rider, would have to live or be concious at the time to explain...
It could be days+ for the police to properly assess what all took place,
and I bet would likely flag it as excessive speed.
__________________
"new joke tomorrow..."
Ulric is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 03:08 PM   #17
bumblebee
Yeah I'm flippin' YOU off
 
bumblebee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pearland
Feedback Rating: (3)
Posts: 12,268


Bike(s):
'74 Suzuki GT380
'82 XS650 StreetTracker
'10 Ducati Streetfighter
'83 Yamaha Seca 900






I don't think that it's bike actually hitting other vehicles that would cause the problem, it's more likely that other vehicles swerving to avoid a collision or
just getting startled by a bike flashing by them at 100+mph.

Either way the cop I talked to Sat. said it it like this, "The state has determined that you are more likely to injure not only yourself but others, as well, when you are riding recklessly. Therefore the state has made the penalties very harsh. Just like the seatbelt law , you may not injure others by not wearing one but it's proven that you are more likely to be injured".
__________________
Asphalt is for racing... dirt is for growing potatoes. - J. Diester
When seconds count... the police are only minutes away.
Grow up and be a productive member of society already.
Bevo- "I lack skillz"
bumblebee is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 03:21 PM   #18
Ulric
Dirty Old
 
Ulric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Spring
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 9,633

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
05 FZ1









...this might be a start, note the document is dated 2004.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety...orcycleacc.pdf
__________________
"new joke tomorrow..."
Ulric is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 03:41 PM   #19
JSki
Senior Member
 
JSki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Conroe
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 1,651


Bike(s):
06 SV650









Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
I don't think that it's bike actually hitting other vehicles that would cause the problem, it's more likely that other vehicles swerving to avoid a collision or
just getting startled by a bike flashing by them at 100+mph.

Either way the cop I talked to Sat. said it it like this, "The state has determined that you are more likely to injure not only yourself but others, as well, when you are riding recklessly. Therefore the state has made the penalties very harsh. Just like the seatbelt law , you may not injure others by not wearing one but it's proven that you are more likely to be injured".

+1. It's more about what could happen. The public highways/roads aren't for showing off and acting a fool. It's all about being responsible and not endangering everyone else on the road. Also, you may indirectly hurt someone by looping it or losing control and eating it and the next soccer mom in a minivan with here kids in the back runs right over your dumb and has to live with the thought of killing you for the rest of her life. How would her kids feel? How freaking hard is it to be responsible?
__________________
"Any man worth his salt will stick up for what he believes right, but it takes a slightly better man to acknowledge instantly and without reservation that he is in error." -Andrew Jackson
JSki is offline  
Old 04-09-2008, 03:47 PM   #20
bdmpastx
The Cripple
 
bdmpastx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pearland
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 5,771

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2009 Nissan GTR - sold
2015 Nissan GTR





I went to the funeral of a guy that was riding a wheelie when he t-boned a truck pulling out of a resturant. It was at night and the truck driver never saw him cause his headlight was pointing at the sky.
__________________
My wheelchair doesn't have chicken strips
sigpic
bdmpastx is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:55 AM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy