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Old 04-09-2008, 09:07 AM   #61
J lo
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I think that a "Rubbin is Racin" thread would be a great topic. How about "Erratic race lines keeps people behind me." or even "It's only cheatin if you get caught."

Just kiddin, Just kiddin
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Old 04-09-2008, 09:11 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by jodyhudson View Post
yep... and so are FZ1's
No... FZ1's are for when the mind says 'R1' and the body says 'sealy posturepedic'.
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Old 04-09-2008, 09:51 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Ulric View Post
No... FZ1's are for when the mind says 'R1' and the body says 'sealy posturepedic'.
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Old 04-09-2008, 01:19 PM   #64
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i see ur point... kinda. but i think ur trying to force that one on an audience that has very little interest in rain riding whether its on the track or off. these folks are street riders and fair-weather trackday guys/gals. i dont think they wanna go trash their pretty little bikes in the pouring down rain just to improve their over-all skill level.
Imagine me thinking in a forum titled "Racers Lounge" there would actually be people posting who actually raced a motorcycle.
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Old 04-09-2008, 01:51 PM   #65
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Old 04-09-2008, 01:59 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diggler View Post
Imagine me thinking in a forum titled "Racers Lounge" there would actually be people posting who actually raced a motorcycle.
amen ! 80% of the people in this section dont race and probably dont ever intend to. i agree with you on that thought
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Old 04-09-2008, 03:23 PM   #67
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i dont need to go back to economics 101. i know exactly how the works because ive been doin it for 15 years.
3 of my closest freinds just so happen to own one of the trackday orgs. so yeah i actually might know what im talking about
Since you got the inside scoop, then maybe you will be kind enough to explain something to me. Because obviously I must be leaving something out of the equation.

Organizers have to rent the track. In addition to the track they will have other overhead as well. For illustration purposes only I'm going to use some nice round bogus numbers.

Track Rental = $1,000
Other overhead = $1,000
Revenue from bikers = $4,000
net profit = $2,000

Per XRCajun, rain or shine organizers still have to pay the track rental. So rain or shine, that means the organizers are out $1,000. For arguments sake, lets say the additional overhead does not cost them anything if they cancel the track day. Bottom line then is they're at a $1,000 loss.

So you're telling me they cannot give any type of discount on a rainy day and still turn a profit?

If that's the case something MAJOR is missing out of my equation and I would like to know what it is.

Please, someone set me straight. I need to understand how I'm wrong.
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Old 04-09-2008, 03:42 PM   #68
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Since you got the inside scoop, then maybe you will be kind enough to explain something to me. Because obviously I must be leaving something out of the equation.

Organizers have to rent the track. In addition to the track they will have other overhead as well. For illustration purposes only I'm going to use some nice round bogus numbers.

Track Rental = $1,000
Other overhead = $1,000
Revenue from bikers = $4,000
net profit = $2,000

Per XRCajun, rain or shine organizers still have to pay the track rental. So rain or shine, that means the organizers are out $1,000. For arguments sake, lets say the additional overhead does not cost them anything if they cancel the track day. Bottom line then is they're at a $1,000 loss.

So you're telling me they cannot give any type of discount on a rainy day and still turn a profit?

If that's the case something MAJOR is missing out of my equation and I would like to know what it is.

Please, someone set me straight. I need to understand how I'm wrong.
Well like you said these are bogus numbers. But suppose the track rental is $3000 for the day? Rider revenue is $4000. Now we get rained out. So the next track day organizer pays another $3000 toward track rental. The riders have already paid there $4000. Now the organizer has paid out $6000 and received $4000.

How long would you keep doing that as an organizer?
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Old 04-09-2008, 04:10 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by XRCajun View Post
Well like you said these are bogus numbers. But suppose the track rental is $3000 for the day? Rider revenue is $4000. Now we get rained out. So the next track day organizer pays another $3000 toward track rental. The riders have already paid there $4000. Now the organizer has paid out $6000 and received $4000.

How long would you keep doing that as an organizer?
Your math only goes to prove my point. You already stated that the organizer has to pay the track fees regardless. With your math, $2,000 loss is what is happening NOW, when they CANCEL track day when it rains.

My proposal was NOT to cancel track day, just discount it to the riders. Track rental $3,000....it's raining, so give riders a discount. Rider revenue is now $3,500 instead of $4,000. Profit is half as it normally would be. But at least now they're not $2,000 in the hole. The second $3,000 track rental doesn't come into play as it did in your equation because track day was not canceled.
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Old 04-09-2008, 04:18 PM   #70
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FKNA

First off,
We NEVER use to cancel events until really the end of last year and the first of this year. 99% of ALL track day riders do not want to ride in the rain. Racing and track day riding IMHO are completely different scenarios.
I love to race in the rain. Full wets ROCK.
With that being said I will elaborate a bit on your question.
Each tracks policy regarding weather varies. Previously LSTD was told by several tracks ride rain or shine, you pay either way. With the additions of a few new tracks things have changed a bit. David at GSS did not want our first event last year to start out raining. We re-scheduled the event. Note the word re-scheduled. The re-scheduled event which was February of this year rained again. We re-scheduled that event for Monday May 26th.
The only losses we have in this scenario is any expenses that occur if we actually go to the track then cancel ie: hotels, fuel, etc.....
If the track pushes our fees to the next event then we are fine. THANKS GSS.

We cancelled an event at TWS (Texas World Speedway) this year where the weather forecast was both cold, rain, and possible hail. This is not just rainy weather. It is dangerous. No Thanks, we cancelled. I am not some new provider who cancels events because you don't have enough customers to make it worth your while. In some cases you would lose less money by cancelling your event and forfeiting your deposit than if you showed up to an $8,000.00 event with 20 riders. If your deposit is 25% then you lose less money. Your customers get a credit and you hope that more people want to come ride your next event. This all works until the tracks get and won't let you book events unless they are paid in full or your customers get because they can't rely on you to be consistant and stable.
If track day operators and customers have their way they would cancel every rainy day possible and hope for the next dry day. The main problem is we are now in uncharted territory.
What constitutes dangerous or just wet? How many rain outs do they allow each year. To who? Do you have to re-schedule or do you just cancel? Do the tracks keep the deposits? These are the main problems at hand and I'm sure when the tracks gave credits this year they felt like they were opening pandoras box. Hopefully we don't have to test their fears any more this year.

I have a question for you. How would our other overhead not need to be paid if it rained? The discounts you mentioned would be what, 50% off?
Your revenue just dropped to $2000.00 therefore we are still at a break even point.
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Last edited by MacMan; 04-09-2008 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 04-09-2008, 04:36 PM   #71
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MacMan,

Thanks for your explanation. There's a BIG difference between cancel and reschedule. Early in the thread, all that talk was about canceling.

To answer your question in regards to the other overhead, I have no clue what other overhead might be involved. For arguments sake, I left it out of the equation and was going off what another posted stated (track fee is still paid regardless)

My discount percentage was just something I threw out there. Again, not knowing what the net profit is. My only point is (again, using hypothetical numbers) if your net profit 35%, but if you cancel and still have to pay the track fees or whatever that now puts you at a loss (regardless of the percentage of the loss) just because it rains. My point was to discount, make less profit (but a profit nonetheless) is ALWAYS better than a loss in my book.

But thanks about making the point of this being rescheduled instead of canceled. That's the part of the equation I was missing. It now all makes perfect sense.
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:03 PM   #72
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Only reason I hate riding in the rain is the amount of time required to clean the bike. I've ridden in the rain several times and each time it has taken me 3-4 hours to completely clean the entire bike. Yes I like to keep my bike clean unlike some of you fools.
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:17 PM   #73
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agreed go out and play in the rain
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:35 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacMan View Post
First off,
We NEVER use to cancel events until really the end of last year and the first of this year. 99% of ALL track day riders do not want to ride in the rain. Racing and track day riding IMHO are completely different scenarios.

< snip >
Thanks MacMan! I appreciate the re-schedule!!
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:37 PM   #75
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Well, other than not being as much fun for newbies (like me) to ride in the rain (lack of experience/confidence), I could see a rainy track as another opportunity to learn my capabilities in the wet, where I will eventually have to ride. Won't be as fast, but like on dry, a great learning environment without the hazards of oncoming traffic and low-vis-cagers!
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:37 PM   #76
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Okay let's continue the rain riding part of this discussion. My biggest problem with riding in the rain is seeing. I can't freaking see! Especially if a car or a bike is in front of me throwing up mist off the road. How in the heck do you deal with that? Seriously my vision must get reduced to about 30 yards and and that's enough visibility to do about 30 mph. I really want to know how you rain riding lovers deal with that part?
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:53 PM   #77
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Vision,

Thats why I always like to be out front!!!
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:58 PM   #78
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Vision,

Thats why I always like to be out front!!!
No come on that's not a good answer! What the heck do you do about not being able to see? If you can't see you just can't go very fast and that's not any fun. So what do you do?
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:01 PM   #79
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I do several things to see when its raining. I turn my helmet to each side for a few seconds letting the wind push the water of my visor. I will also use my gloves and just wipe em. Also try to stay from behind other vehicles, particularly big trucks.
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:02 PM   #80
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Quote:
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No come on that's not a good answer! What the heck do you do about not being able to see? If you can't see you just can't go very fast and that's not any fun. So what do you do?
I turn my helmet side to side while keeping my eyes straight - helps the water roll off quicker and increase my following distance.
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