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Old 04-07-2008, 10:22 AM   #21
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For the small price of 12 billion a month.
Wonder what is calculated in that number? Wages of soldiers who are employed by the government? The cost of manufacturing of trucks, tanks, and equipment that are still made here in the U.S.? The food harvesting they get from the U.S. Farmers to feed them? How about the benefits and bonuses that the soldiers bring back and dump into our economy?

Thats a lot of wages and jobs being created all over from this war. Wonder how good BAE would be doing if we weren't at war in Iraq? Not saying it is worth the price, but there is a positive side to this war also. Before this war started, they were restricting enlistments. In fact, my cousin was released a year before his term was up with a severence package because they didn't need 1/2 his group. He has a good job with the govt now, but still.
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Old 04-07-2008, 12:45 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogs69 View Post
Wonder what is calculated in that number? Wages of soldiers who are employed by the government? The cost of manufacturing of trucks, tanks, and equipment that are still made here in the U.S.? The food harvesting they get from the U.S. Farmers to feed them? How about the benefits and bonuses that the soldiers bring back and dump into our economy?

Thats a lot of wages and jobs being created all over from this war. Wonder how good BAE would be doing if we weren't at war in Iraq? Not saying it is worth the price, but there is a positive side to this war also. Before this war started, they were restricting enlistments. In fact, my cousin was released a year before his term was up with a severence package because they didn't need 1/2 his group. He has a good job with the govt now, but still.
The argument goes that when a country is at war, jobs are created and the economy grows. This is a myth. Many argue that World War II ended the Great Depression, which is another myth. Unemployment went down because many men were drafted, but national economic output went down during the war.

Economic growth and a true end to the Depression did not occur until after World War II. So it is wrong to think there is an economic benefit arising from war.

There are many economic shortcomings during a war. During wartime it is much more common to experience inflation because the money presses are running to fund military expenses. Also, during wartime there is a bigger challenge to the currency of the warring nation, and already we see that the dollar has dropped dramatically. Although there are many other reasons for a weak dollar, the war certainly is contributing to the weakness in the dollar.

Also, during wartime the country can expect that taxes will go up. I know there is talk about cutting taxes, and I am all for cutting taxes; but in real terms taxes will go up during wartime. And it is inevitable that deficits increase. And right now our deficits are exploding. Our national debt is going up nearly $500 billion per year.

The other shortcoming economically of wartime is that funds, once they are borrowed, inflated, or taxed, once the government spends these, so much of this expenditure is overseas, and it takes away from domestic spending. So this is a strong negative for the domestic economy.

There is no doubt that during wartime government expands in size and scope. And this of course is a great danger. And after war, the government rarely shrinks to its original size. It grows. It may shrink a little, but inevitably the size of the government grows because of war. This is a danger because when government gets bigger, the individual has to get smaller; therefore, it diminishes personal individual liberty. So these are the costs that we cannot ignore. We have the cost of potential loss of life, but there are also tremendous economic costs that even the best economists cannot calculate closely.
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Old 04-07-2008, 12:49 PM   #23
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Good read, thank you sir.
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Old 04-07-2008, 01:05 PM   #24
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Good read, thank you sir.
Thank you, sir! Not picking on you Cogs, you just brought up a very common misconception.
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Old 04-07-2008, 01:41 PM   #25
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There are no positives in war. Yet we continue to allow the goverment to wage war on things they can not win. It kind of makes you wonder why they want the wars to begin with.
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Old 04-07-2008, 01:44 PM   #26
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Thank you, sir! Not picking on you Cogs, you just brought up a very common misconception.
I have said before in my other debates that my knowledge of politics and economics is weak at best. That comment I made was what my thinking would be with no research what so ever. Glad I could be enlightened some.

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Originally Posted by Moody View Post
There are no positives in war. Yet we continue to allow the goverment to wage war on things they can not win. It kind of makes you wonder why they want the wars to begin with.
There is a positive aspect to everything. Period. I am one of those "find the positive sides to everything" people, and there ALWAYS is one. Some people are just too blind to see it.
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:13 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermalser View Post
The argument goes that when a country is at war, jobs are created and the economy grows. This is a myth. Many argue that World War II ended the Great Depression, which is another myth. Unemployment went down because many men were drafted, but national economic output went down during the war.

Economic growth and a true end to the Depression did not occur until after World War II. So it is wrong to think there is an economic benefit arising from war.

There are many economic shortcomings during a war. During wartime it is much more common to experience inflation because the money presses are running to fund military expenses. Also, during wartime there is a bigger challenge to the currency of the warring nation, and already we see that the dollar has dropped dramatically. Although there are many other reasons for a weak dollar, the war certainly is contributing to the weakness in the dollar.

Also, during wartime the country can expect that taxes will go up. I know there is talk about cutting taxes, and I am all for cutting taxes; but in real terms taxes will go up during wartime. And it is inevitable that deficits increase. And right now our deficits are exploding. Our national debt is going up nearly $500 billion per year.

The other shortcoming economically of wartime is that funds, once they are borrowed, inflated, or taxed, once the government spends these, so much of this expenditure is overseas, and it takes away from domestic spending. So this is a strong negative for the domestic economy.

There is no doubt that during wartime government expands in size and scope. And this of course is a great danger. And after war, the government rarely shrinks to its original size. It grows. It may shrink a little, but inevitably the size of the government grows because of war. This is a danger because when government gets bigger, the individual has to get smaller; therefore, it diminishes personal individual liberty. So these are the costs that we cannot ignore. We have the cost of potential loss of life, but there are also tremendous economic costs that even the best economists cannot calculate closely.
Sad and scary, all at the same time. That was a good read right thurr.
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:14 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody View Post
There are no positives in war. Yet we continue to allow the goverment to wage war on things they can not win. It kind of makes you wonder why they want the wars to begin with.
Who's we? I have no choice!
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:50 PM   #29
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I have said before in my other debates that my knowledge of politics and economics is weak at best. That comment I made was what my thinking would be with no research what so ever. Glad I could be enlightened some.



There is a positive aspect to everything. Period. I am one of those "find the positive sides to everything" people, and there ALWAYS is one. Some people are just too blind to see it.
If you find a positive in war let me know.
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:50 PM   #30
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Who's we? I have no choice!
It is becoming apparent that few of us do.
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:52 PM   #31
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If you find a positive in war let me know.
Yea, we got rid of a regime that used to mass slaughter his own people. We did find grave sites of hundreds of thousands of dead bodies. Not saying it didn't open a bigger can of worms, but he was evil. I know you are going to come back with a negative argument on it. But you can't deny the guy wasn't fit to run a country.
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:52 PM   #32
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Old 04-07-2008, 03:11 PM   #33
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If you find a positive in war let me know.
Revolutionary War ... created the United States
Mexican American War ... we got Texas, California, New Mexico and a load of other states

Civil War ... preserved the Union, freed the slaves
WWII ... stoped the genocide of Jews and Chinese
Korean War ... stopped the invasion of South Korea
Vietnam War ... My dad met my mom


just to name a few.
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Old 04-07-2008, 03:24 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by logan5 View Post
Revolutionary War ... created the United States
Mexican American War ... we got Texas, California, New Mexico and a load of other states

Civil War ... preserved the Union, freed the slaves
WWII ... stoped the genocide of Jews and Chinese
Korean War ... stopped the invasion of South Korea
Vietnam War ... My dad met my mom


just to name a few.
Well it was a coincidence... Kinda.
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Old 04-07-2008, 03:25 PM   #35
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I know you are going to come back with a negative argument on it.
He's moody, what else can we expect?
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Old 04-07-2008, 03:31 PM   #36
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They country you live in would not exist if it wasnt for war.Hugs and kisses dont solve all of mankinds issues.
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Old 04-07-2008, 03:42 PM   #37
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Yea, we got rid of a regime that used to mass slaughter his own people. We did find grave sites of hundreds of thousands of dead bodies. Not saying it didn't open a bigger can of worms, but he was evil. I know you are going to come back with a negative argument on it. But you can't deny the guy wasn't fit to run a country.
neither is bush
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Old 04-07-2008, 03:43 PM   #38
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On the same note,there are quite a few groups who would like to see sharia[sic]law passed here in the U.S.What would you propse in that situation?Keep in mind you will be decapitated if you disagree publicly
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Old 04-07-2008, 03:47 PM   #39
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They country you live in would not exist if it wasnt for war.Hugs and kisses dont solve all of mankinds issues.
No, greed and power does.
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Old 04-07-2008, 03:47 PM   #40
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neither is bush
Thats a matter of opinion. I don't think he is as bad as the media makes him out to be. But if you recall, there is always a group that says the president is a failure. Name the last one that was considered a success by everyone? I disagree with you, I think Bush was an OK president at best. But not that bad.
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