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Old 09-20-2005, 02:45 AM   #1
zixx6r
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The rear brake

I was reading an old Motorcyclist magazine (2001) that I found in a bin at work and it had a pretty interesting article about Anthony Gobert's ways of riding fast. Gobert is in Aussie superbike now I think. They used data acquisition to measure the brake pressure and throttle position for both pro superbike racer Gobert and a fast amateur rider for direct comparison at Willow Springs.

The whole article was great, what really struck me was one of Gobert's speed tips was to use the rear brake. Not all the time, but when he really wanted to brake hard and late while carrying corner speed he would use the front and rear linked. I usually just use the front brake, but this got me thinking...I hate the front end diving on me and the rear shooting up when I brake hard with the front discs. Any of you guys routinely using the rear brake at the track?

What has stopped me from using it under hard braking until now is that I have locked up the rear tire in an emergency stop...and that's no fun. I use it when commuting, but backroads or track I dont even bother with it. I have neglected to put good pads or braided lines on the rear brake because I figured it would just lead to more lock-ups. Or would it be a good mod?
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Old 09-20-2005, 07:39 AM   #2
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Re: The rear brake

i quite frequently use my rear brake at the track, it may be a bad habit but, it's how i roll, never had any probs, just lighty get on them though too much and you'll be in trouble.
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:16 AM   #3
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Re: The rear brake

using the rear brake is a very sharp double edge sword....use it right, and you'll be faster, use it wrong and you'll be on the ground...........
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Old 09-20-2005, 01:53 PM   #4
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Re: The rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X
using the rear brake is a very sharp double edge sword....use it right, and you'll be faster, use it wrong and you'll be on the ground...........
+1
Ty Howard talked abot this when I took his school. He said don't worry about it until you start really worrying about shaving partial seconds off your lap times by backing the bike into certain corners.
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Old 09-20-2005, 02:59 PM   #5
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Re: The rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonR1
i quite frequently use my rear brake at the track, it may be a bad habit but, it's how i roll, never had any probs, just lighty get on them though too much and you'll be in trouble.
me too. i use it on the street all the time but the use the front alot more.
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Old 09-20-2005, 03:45 PM   #6
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Re: The rear brake

You guys using your rear brakes, what do you guys do?

just enter the turn hot, than tap the rear brake a bit to slow you down??
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Old 09-20-2005, 03:50 PM   #7
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Re: The rear brake

i use the rear to slow down and the either roll the throttle through the turn or i just trail brake using the front only.

not tapping, just softly pressing down the rear brake lever or squeezing the front lever. only on the track.

on the street i brake before the turn and throttle all the way through.
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Old 09-20-2005, 10:51 PM   #8
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Re: The rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by sshaikh01
You guys using your rear brakes, what do you guys do?

just enter the turn hot, than tap the rear brake a bit to slow you down??
you dont tap on it, but yes you do use it because you are "hott" into the corner. in any instance when you need to slow down in a hurry you could always use more brake. soooo if you normally just use your front brake, and there was a situation that you had to go a little deeper into a corner to make a pass, you can use the rear brake to make up some for what you just took away in distance on the track by braking later before you turn in.

also, what applying the rear brake does is settle the chassy. ever try to take off in your car with the E brake still on??? the rear of the car squats, same thing on a bike. as you go through the corner by applying the rear it will keep the of the bike down allowing you to not push the front though the corner, it helps bring the front end around. now all of this is a very very technical thing to do, and just like with anything what works for one guy doesnt always work for the other. good luck
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Old 09-21-2005, 01:45 AM   #9
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Re: The rear brake

everybody s put it down perfect.. but another way of looking at it is about killing bike's momentum. when u use only front brake, ur rear takes longer to loose momentum which means lesser stability. Now using rear alongwith front makes the bike better balanced, by killing momentum simultaneously. (Brandon put it technically above) and also, u wld have got better braking( see the DOT motorcycle handbook, using both together ensures arnd 15-20% shorter stopping distances than while using only front).

now there wld always be people who will say "rear brake, never" but remind them that deceleration is same as braking the rear actually..and everybody decelerates in a turn..isnt it!!

uh and NEVER tapping, in everything motorcycle, being gradual and smooth is the key right:

my .00002 cents!i believe I am right, but u might want to listen to experts if they disagree with me
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Old 09-21-2005, 04:36 AM   #10
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Re: The rear brake

Well, I always use the rear brake riding on the street, but in my first track day this past sep 5th, I tried to use it,but since I wasn't that fast, it had a negative effect, I found that using just the front was enough, only when I get faster I'll be needing it, then I may have to do something and make the rear brake less powerful (my bike really stops with the rear, yikes!).

I would 've had to really use the rear brake if TWS (Texas World Speedway) turn 1 wasn't so wide open, it's more like a sweeper, all I do is roll off the throttle to make the turn, even when we were instructed to only pass on the straighaways, i found myself hauling and passing two and three guys at once (the were a little slower) because i had my momentum and didn't wan't to actually use the brake.
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Old 09-21-2005, 09:01 AM   #11
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Re: The rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedismo
everybody s put it down perfect.. but another way of looking at it is about killing bike's momentum. when u use only front brake, ur rear takes longer to loose momentum which means lesser stability. Now using rear alongwith front makes the bike better balanced, by killing momentum simultaneously. (Brandon* put* it technically above) and also, u wld have got better braking( see the DOT motorcycle handbook, using both together ensures arnd 15-20% shorter stopping distances than while using only front).

now there* wld always be people who will say "rear brake, never" but remind them that deceleration is same as braking the rear actually..and everybody decelerates in a turn..isnt it!!

uh and NEVER tapping, in everything motorcycle, being gradual and smooth is the key right:

my .00002 cents!i believe I am right, but u might want to listen to experts if they disagree with me
Your quoting the DOT Motorcycle Handbook in the Racers Lounge? Forget about that thing! They also say never brake in a corner. :dontknow:
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Old 09-21-2005, 09:02 AM   #12
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Re: The rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotChickenStrips
Well, I always use the rear brake riding on the street, but in my first track day this past sep 5th, I tried to use it,but since I wasn't that fast, it had a negative effect, I found that using just the front was enough, only when I get faster I'll be needing it, then I may have to do something and make the rear brake less powerful (my bike really stops with the rear, yikes!).

I would 've had to really use the rear brake if TWS (Texas World Speedway) turn 1 wasn't so wide open, it's more like a sweeper, all I do is roll off the throttle to make the turn, even when we were instructed to only pass on the straighaways, i found myself hauling and passing two and three guys at once (the were a little slower) because i had my momentum and didn't wan't to actually use the brake.
You will eventually use the brakes in T1 as well. right:
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Old 09-21-2005, 10:34 AM   #13
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Re: The rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody


Your quoting the DOT Motorcycle Handbook in the Racers Lounge? Forget about that thing! They also say never brake in a corner.* :dontknow:
haha.. right.. but it surely stops faster if both brakes r applied together. scientific reason being what i was talking abt killing momentum for the whole of bike, because otherwise the rear of the bike will push up. its all about newton's law of inertia!! right:
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Old 09-21-2005, 12:45 PM   #14
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Re: The rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody

You will eventually use the brakes in T1 as well.* right:
lol yeah no kidding... no brakes?!? I can't even imagine what that would be like.

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Old 09-21-2005, 12:53 PM   #15
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Re: The rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedismo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody


Your quoting the DOT Motorcycle Handbook in the Racers Lounge? Forget about that thing! They also say never brake in a corner.* :dontknow:
haha.. right.. but* it surely stops* faster if both brakes r applied together. scientific reason being what i was talking abt killing momentum for the whole of bike, because otherwise the rear of the bike will push up. its all about newton's law of inertia!! right:
As Brandon stated... you should not need to do so much braking while the bike is vertical unless you are trying to make a pass by braking deeper.... and this only works well on certain corners. If you are braking and the front of the bike is diving to hard then you need to adjust something.... either your grip on the lever or your suspension. If you are talking about braking to avoid the rear of a car then... you have made a serious error on the track.

The most misunderstood concept of braking at the track is that the brakes are used to slow you down. When in fact, if the brakes are used appropriately you will be faster. That is are lesson for the day on trail braking. Stop by TWS (Texas World Speedway) next weekend to see all of this in action. right:
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Old 09-21-2005, 12:57 PM   #16
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Re: The rear brake

But, ultimately if you are getting around the track faster then everyone else. You are probably doing something right. right:
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Old 09-21-2005, 02:09 PM   #17
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Re: The rear brake

u r right. no doubt. but point is, front will still dive, WATEVER be ur suspension settings.. maybe a bit less, maybe a bit more. also depends on the rider. if u r too aggressive, then u will always be braking late, to shave time off. which means braking hard. but yh, definitely agree with ur " braking is not for slowing down, but for going faster". will keep that in mind. and i m gonna be at TWS (Texas World Speedway) on 30th, most probably. maybe i can do a few laps behind u and learn a few things.. that is if u r in group B!

and who says i m getting around the track faster than everyone else. no way, i m slow. all u guyz r faster than me, some muchas faster! maybe u meant it for Gianni or Brandon
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Old 09-21-2005, 03:31 PM   #18
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Re: The rear brake

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedismo
u r right.* no* doubt. but point is, front will still dive, WATEVER be ur suspension settings.. maybe a bit less, maybe a bit more. also depends on* the rider. if u r too aggressive, then u will always be braking late, to shave time off. which means braking hard. but yh, definitely agree with ur " braking is not for slowing down, but for going faster".* will keep that in mind. and i m gonna be at TWS (Texas World Speedway)* on 30th, most probably. maybe* i can do a few laps behind u and learn a few things.. that is if u r in group B!

and who says i m getting around the track faster than everyone else. no way, i m slow. all u guyz r faster than me,* some muchas faster! maybe u meant it for Gianni or Brandon
I am slow.
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Old 09-23-2005, 01:46 AM   #19
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Re: The rear brake

i trail brake all the time in turns
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