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Old 02-29-2008, 10:04 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by nuclearalex View Post
because in my opinion, countries should not be invading other countries.
it is sinful and shameful. I am embarassed for that.
how do you think the usa came about? this country is what it is from sweat blood and tears, not a bunch of immigrants who migrated their way over here...the land was fought for, not claimed or given.

people have been doin it for thousands of years....it's a part of the world, not just certain countries.
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Old 02-29-2008, 10:14 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofpain View Post
how do you think the usa came about? this country is what it is from sweat blood and tears, not a bunch of immigrants who migrated their way over here...the land was fought for, not claimed or given.

people have been doin it for thousands of years....it's a part of the world, not just certain countries.
I wholeheartedly agree... and even in the "peaceful" europe the peace (excluding balkans) has been on only for the last 50 years (blink of an eye compared to world history).

People have been doing it as long as they have existed and it is in our genes to fight and claim things and stuff. This however doesn't make it less shameful in my mind.

There are other instincts that we as mamals have but do not act on as our intelligence tells us that it is bad to act on some of those instincts (by bad i mean bad for the society, sinful in the sense that it will ultimately cause harm to everyone) e.g. imagine if any male was to rape anyone they were for...
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Old 02-29-2008, 10:35 AM   #23
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And just why shouldn't we be fighting this war? Do you need to be schooled on UN Resolutions?
Yeah, bring on your facts. Show me the arms that should have been turned over under UN1441 and how exactly is the country doing now that we have created a civil war? Oh and look at how great our economy is for exhausitng ourselves on these matters. Brilliant!

We can't handle illegal immigration properly. Why would we ever consider ourselves the agents for spreading proper democratic policy and how exactly do you spread democratic policy with an M16?
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Old 02-29-2008, 10:45 AM   #24
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Maybe cuz it is called serving your country? I would take bullets for this war. The US just like many other countries have made poor decisions, but it is still our brothers, fathers, sons and friends over there fighting. It is part of what makes this country greater than the others. Right or wrong, there is a war, and it is still about doing what you can for your country. Be thankful that there are those people you called "murders" are out there taking care of buisness so you don't have to.
"No ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb die for his country." - General Patton

These murders you speak of, how will your judge them and how will your judge you for supporting the loss of innocent lives? (this is the context of my statement when I used that term but, you obviously score low on reading comprehension)

I simply question why our family and friends our in this charade but, obviously this is not a good position in life to have is it? Questioning things is bad isn't it?
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:04 AM   #25
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Who knows, I mean maybe you guys are right and we should support Bush's Crusade and conquer nations. Maybe he is smarter then we all imagine and is making room for us because we are loosing our current nation. Good one guys, that one almost slipped past me but, now I can see the light and hear the rally of the troops.
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:09 AM   #26
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"No ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb die for his country." - General Patton

These murders you speak of, how will your judge them and how will your judge you for supporting the loss of innocent lives? (this is the context of my statement when I used that term but, you obviously score low on reading comprehension)

I simply question why our family and friends our in this charade but, obviously this is not a good position in life to have is it? Questioning things is bad isn't it?
This has already been discussed, but here you go.

Christians will respect the authorities (Titus 3:1; 1 Peter 2:13, 14, 17), will pay their taxes faithfully (Matthew 22:17-21; Romans 13:7), and will pray for the men in the government, so that may bless the country with justice, order, peace, and religious liberty. 1 Timothy 2:1-3.

"We are not required to defy authorities. Our words, whether spoken or written, should be carefully considered, lest we place ourselves on record as uttering that which would make us appear antagonistic to law and order. We are not to say or do anything that would unnecessarily close up our way. We are to go forward in Christ's name advocating the truths committed to us."—The Acts of the Apostles, pp. 68-69.

is understanding, and forgiving, and I'm sure he can see the difference between Murdering, and defending.
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:14 AM   #27
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This has already been discussed, but here you go.

Christians will respect the authorities (Titus 3:1; 1 Peter 2:13, 14, 17), will pay their taxes faithfully (Matthew 22:17-21; Romans 13:7), and will pray for the men in the government, so that may bless the country with justice, order, peace, and religious liberty. 1 Timothy 2:1-3.

"We are not required to defy authorities. Our words, whether spoken or written, should be carefully considered, lest we place ourselves on record as uttering that which would make us appear antagonistic to law and order. We are not to say or do anything that would unnecessarily close up our way. We are to go forward in Christ's name advocating the truths committed to us."—The Acts of the Apostles, pp. 68-69.

is understanding, and forgiving, and I'm sure he can see the difference between Murdering, and defending.

Interesting, thanks for the info.
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:19 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by cogs69 View Post
is understanding, and forgiving, and I'm sure he can see the difference between Murdering, and defending.
Gogs, you know i luv ya, but why we have to defent texas in efin iraq? I mean why not antarctica?

This is how i see it, I do not agree with the policies of our government but should someone bring their army over by my condo at stadium dr. heck i'll be the first one to grab m16 and fight the bastards off. but "defending" texas world over i dont get. To me it seems like a defense of profits of oil companies at the much bigger expense of the taxpayers. I think we all would have been better off if our administration just handed over a trillion or so dollars to be shared amongst their favorite oil companies without anyone having to fight or to die...
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:19 AM   #29
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Interesting, thanks for the info.
I know the commandments are very plain and simple, but I feel there are gray areas kinda like there is with the authorities here. The speed limit may be 65, but as long as you aren't going over 70 or being reckless, most the time you will be ok, or just get a warning. While killing isn't right no matter how you slice it, sometimes there are exceptions, or reason to do it, and you have to ask for forgiveness.

Think about it, the rule is Thou shall not kill. Well if you defend your life or a loved one, and the bad guy dies. You killed, period. But I honestly believe there is forgiveness depending on the circumstance. But that is MY understanding, and what I have been taught. :dontknow:
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:23 AM   #30
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Gogs, you know i luv ya, but why we have to defent texas in efin iraq? I mean why not antarctica?

This is how i see it, I do not agree with the policies of our government but should someone bring their army over by my condo at stadium dr. heck i'll be the first one to grab m16 and fight the bastards off. but "defending" texas world over i dont get. To me it seems like a defense of profits of oil companies at the much bigger expense of the taxpayers. I think we all would have been better off if our administration just handed over a trillion or so dollars to be shared amongst their favorite oil companies without anyone having to fight or to die...
Hey I'm not defending the reason for the war. i'm on the fence on the whole topic. BUT, I do feel if we pull out now and abandon it, we will feel very adverse effects in the near future. I am just commenting on Moody's comment over why would anyone take a bullet for this war. It comes down to protecting my neighbors and family that are over there. Yes I know I'm not there, but that would be my reason.
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:23 AM   #31
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sorry for typos, as you might have guessed i already had my pre-dinner 2 beers
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:26 AM   #32
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I know the commandments are very plain and simple, but I feel there are gray areas kinda like there is with the authorities here. The speed limit may be 65, but as long as you aren't going over 70 or being reckless, most the time you will be ok, or just get a warning. While killing isn't right no matter how you slice it, sometimes there are exceptions, or reason to do it, and you have to ask for forgiveness.

Think about it, the rule is Thou shall not kill. Well if you defend your life or a loved one, and the bad guy dies. You killed, period. But I honestly believe there is forgiveness depending on the circumstance. But that is MY understanding, and what I have been taught. :dontknow:
You are the first to provide scripture for the question I posed on here 3 months ago (or whenever) that used soldiers as murders. The question was how does view those murders we call soldiers. Funny how it has been used out of context several times to try and demoralize my character. Thanks Again, for the researchable items.
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:30 AM   #33
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You are the first to provide scripture for the question I posed on here 3 months ago (or whenever) that used soldiers as murders. The question was how does view those murders we call soldiers. Funny how it has been used out of context several times to try and demoralize my character. Thanks Again, for the researchable items.
Ahhh....your character sucks anyways. Yea I apologize for not providing scripture to back it up.
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:30 AM   #34
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Gogs, you know i luv ya, but why we have to defent texas in efin iraq? I mean why not antarctica?

This is how i see it, I do not agree with the policies of our government but should someone bring their army over by my condo at stadium dr. heck i'll be the first one to grab m16 and fight the bastards off. but "defending" texas world over i dont get. To me it seems like a defense of profits of oil companies at the much bigger expense of the taxpayers. I think we all would have been better off if our administration just handed over a trillion or so dollars to be shared amongst their favorite oil companies without anyone having to fight or to die...
The difference is this method fuels the entire complex but, I agree the end result would be very similar.
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:33 AM   #35
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Hey I'm not defending the reason for the war. i'm on the fence on the whole topic. BUT, I do feel if we pull out now and abandon it, we will feel very adverse effects in the near future. I am just commenting on Moody's comment over why would anyone take a bullet for this war. It comes down to protecting my neighbors and family that are over there. Yes I know I'm not there, but that would be my reason.
i agree, it is a never-ending quagmire. Here is a history lesson:

1)Soviets invaded afganistan in 80s to "change the regime" in there..
2) They were stuck there leaking blood for a decade almost....
3) After they left, everyone's favorite Taliban government has emerged which eventually resulted in 911...

So I agree if we abandon Iraq even bigger mess ensues there that may eventually come around and bite us. or bite Britain. or Russia for that matter..

It is a mess...Unfortunately there are no good solutions for this problem now... But i just feel horribly bad for the 19 and 20 year olds that have to die in order to prop up that stupid situation with no good exit.
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:34 AM   #36
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i agree, it is a never-ending quagmire. Here is a history lesson:

1)Soviets invaded afganistan in 80s to "change the regime" in there..
2) They were stuck there leaking blood for a decade almost....
3) After they left, everyone's favorite Taliban government has emerged which eventually resulted in 911...

So I agree if we abandon Iraq even bigger mess ensues there that may eventually come around and bite us. or bite Britain. or Russia for that matter..

It is a mess...Unfortunately there are no good solutions for this problem now... But i just feel horribly bad for the 19 and 20 year olds that have to die in order to prop up that stupid situation with no good exit.
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Old 02-29-2008, 12:21 PM   #37
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This story was not broken by the british press.

The british press had agreed to not break the story.

This was broken by www.drudgereport.com

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/200802...a-81f3b62.html

"The most interesting aspect about all this is the breaking of the media embargo by Drudge, but we decided that in itself wasn't big enough to warrant the front page."
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Old 02-29-2008, 01:59 PM   #38
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Looks like they're pulling him out. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,333789,00.html
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Old 02-29-2008, 02:13 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclearalex View Post
Gogs, you know i luv ya, but why we have to defent texas in efin iraq? I mean why not antarctica?

This is how i see it, I do not agree with the policies of our government but should someone bring their army over by my condo at stadium dr. heck i'll be the first one to grab m16 and fight the bastards off. but "defending" texas world over i dont get. To me it seems like a defense of profits of oil companies at the much bigger expense of the taxpayers. I think we all would have been better off if our administration just handed over a trillion or so dollars to be shared amongst their favorite oil companies without anyone having to fight or to die...
i dont think the war has much to do with defending our country in a certain country....

this is how i see it....9/11 retaliation....we're running short on oil, lets take theirs because they refuse to sell it to us.

i hear we have one of the biggest oil pools underground in alaska or whatever.....but guess why we haven't drilled it yet? because the man with the oil, is the man with the power. we're gonna exhaust everyone else's oil til there is no more....after that's said and done...we are holding all the cards.

i'm sure if we didn't have the war, and our gas prices were $10.00/gallon, everybody would be singing a whole different tune.
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Old 02-29-2008, 02:40 PM   #40
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i dont think the war has much to do with defending our country in a certain country....
this is how i see it....9/11 retaliation....we're running short on oil, lets take theirs because they refuse to sell it to us.

i hear we have one of the biggest oil pools underground in alaska or whatever.....but guess why we haven't drilled it yet? because the man with the oil, is the man with the power. we're gonna exhaust everyone else's oil til there is no more....after that's said and done...we are holding all the cards.

i'm sure if we didn't have the war, and our gas prices were $10.00/gallon, everybody would be singing a whole different tune.
me neither... yet we keep hearing the mass propaganda say it over and over
again that the troops are defending us over there in iraq. Cogs says they they are killing and getting killed because they are defending their brothers and sisters in arms. Ok. why not simply get them out of the harm's way? It's like Jimbo from southpark was hunting during the hunting ban but right before he shot he would say "it's coming right for us!" Then the game was legit. (the mexican staring frog episode)

I think we should think strategically. Instead of trying to conquer up the world's drying up supply of oil, we should invest in research for new energy
sources. The real power comes from the discovery of new inexhaustible energy. Then again i am a scientist and i like getting funding If I worked in pentagon i'd probably be convincing you how wars are important... (brrrr...hopefuly not!)
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