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Old 02-14-2008, 11:20 AM   #41
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:21 AM   #42
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Seriously, it's the sportbike rider's fault.
1) Speeding on a road with driveways, etc.
2) Not scanning, and
3) he should have just swerved and countersteered around (quick left, quick right), and not apply brakes, since the cager had already stopped.


That's my analysis.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:26 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
Also physics apply that if you apply the rear first, the bike will squat and not load the front so hard. If you slam on the front, then the back, you will have unloaded the rear and it will lock up. Try it and see sometime.
Very true. It's as if the rear tire grabs the ground a little bit.

If you only use the front, let's say you can stop in 60 feet. While that may be fast to some folks, that rear brake, as insignificant as it seems, might help you stop another 10 feet shorter. When you're talking about running up on a car, 10 feet (or less) could be the difference between stopping in time and eating car bumper.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:28 AM   #44
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Who knows who's at falt in this situation. All you have to go on is the driver's account - which may very well be flawed or biased.

Yes, often times when there is no contact between vehicles in a one-vehicle accident blame will be assigned to the party that crashed. This is not always the case though.

If the car turned in front of the bike, even if only the nose of his car occupied the biker's lane, the car driver could still be written for failure to maintain or failure to yield right of way.

Either of these would mitigate the assigment of blame and could potentially place all blame on the car driver.

Who knows if the biker was speeding? The driver says the sportbike was "flying" at him. What else are you going to say if you're trying to avoid the blame?
I wonder what the police report says about this incident.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:28 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlipSideUp View Post
Seriously, it's the sportbike rider's fault.
1) Speeding on a road with driveways, etc.
2) Not scanning, and
3) he should have just swerved and countersteered around (quick left, quick right), and not apply brakes, since the cager had already stopped.


That's my analysis.



Good point Cashtown... didn't think about that.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:32 AM   #46
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:35 AM   #47
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A lot of 'could a' & 'shoulda' not really important though. The idea is attempt to identify what went wrong on the riders part and could have been done differently.

...and btw , there is no 'You' in this. Pulled someone else's story off another site to provide an incident for discussion.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:38 AM   #48
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yep i think we need to learn to not hit the rear in a panic, also if the rider knew what he was looking for on on coming traffic, he could of slown down enough a head of time to avoid the panic, also the cager i think is sumwhat liable if he stuck his nose out to much, would scare the out of alot of people
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:41 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulric View Post
A lot of 'could a' & 'shoulda' not really important though. The idea is attempt to identify what went wrong on the riders part and could have been done differently.

...and btw , there is no 'You' in this. Pulled someone else's story off another site to provide an incident for discussion.
Yeah, if you take the driver's word as gospel, that the rider was speeding, could not brake efectively and subsequently couldn't recover from the loss of control then there are lots of things that he could do differently.

I often wonder about a similar scenario. What if a car pulled into your lane and to avoid them you would likely run off of the other side of the road and crash.

Because there was no contact between your bike and the car, you're going to face an uphill battle in trying to prove that the car driver caused your accident.

Making every effort to avoid an accident is the natural reaction of a rider, but I sometimes think that if I'm going to wreck anyway, might as well let the car tag me so that I can at least show who's fault it was.

Though in practice I know that the survival instinct is going to take over and into the ditch I'll go.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:43 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMEGA View Post
yep i think we need to learn to not hit the rear in a panic, also if the rider knew what he was looking for on on coming traffic, he could of slown down enough a head of time to avoid the panic, also the cager i think is sumwhat liable if he stuck his nose out to much, would scare the out of alot of people
in class people tend to hit the ft brake in panic, when a quick squeeze of the clutch woulda sufficed, and i bet the same in the real world.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:45 AM   #51
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:50 AM   #52
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Quote:
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Look, all I saw was "Rider was flying at me" That means that he was MAYBE speeding.

I know for a fact the guy pulled out a little(or more) into the lane the bike was in.. since he admitted it. Also, when not wanting the blame you tend to overdue certain points... not saying the driver did but who knows

CAR AT FAULT BY OWN RESPONSE. The bike would not need to avoid a car if it were not in the ****ing way.

/END
Cager didn't state whether or not he crossed the right-of-way. All he said was that he stopped. There's not enough info in his account to deduct a true analysis.

edit: nm, he did say his nose was a little into the intersection. my bad.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:55 AM   #53
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Quote:
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in class people tend to hit the ft brake in panic, when a quick squeeze of the clutch woulda sufficed, and i bet the same in the real world.
i agree 100% when i dropped it it was because sum1 was about to tbone me and i hit the rear brake, first reaction in a pnic situation is tense up and hit the brakes hard, i dunno what ive learned about my brakes is, take it slow and be aware when needed(traffic, around parkinglots) and when on higher speeds i try to use rear brks only when i can control it, ie when i know the bike wont lock up
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:00 PM   #54
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:02 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMEGA View Post
i agree 100% when i dropped it it was because sum1 was about to tbone me and i hit the rear brake, first reaction in a pnic situation is tense up and hit the brakes hard, i dunno what ive learned about my brakes is, take it slow and be aware when needed(traffic, around parkinglots) and when on higher speeds i try to use rear brks only when i can control it, ie when i know the bike wont lock up
I would really recommend using the ft brake for your "goto" brake vs rear.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:31 PM   #56
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No collision with the cager, cager can't be held liable, his better bet woulda been to properly maneuver around that car successfully or just hit him!
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:33 PM   #57
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1. use 360 degree awareness at all times riding
2. Anticipate, anticipate, anticipate
3. Prepare for collision avoidance
4. Ride speed appropriate for conditions/situation

No one EVER got into trouble by backing off their speed early rather than later.

I have my rear brake pedal adjusted "down" so I have to go farther to get strong braking.
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Old 02-14-2008, 07:25 PM   #58
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A lot of riders have trouble gauging the rear break feel because it is working directly against the drive wheel, and the lack of feel compared with the front makes them insecure and more likely to overdue it than not. Sometimes they don't even know they're braking until it locks which honestly, is too late.

The biker panicked and its understandable. But it's not like the car just appeared out of nowhere, anytime there is another vehicle in sight (mirrors included) I like to gauge the likely-hood of a collision. Usually its pretty close to 0% and thankfully its never been 100, but since its probable they don't aknowledge your presence its important for you to take control and be responsible for both vehicles since you have alot more at stake. If a car, with or without signaling, makes any sort of movement into a lane of traffic flowing in the opposite direction I slow down and or switch lanes, even in a car I do. And when I have to swerve even after that I usually stare them down as I putt by in slow motion, but i don't think its very effective with a smoked visor.
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