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Old 02-14-2008, 08:03 AM   #1
Ulric
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Analyze this...

With reading Racer's post about who's been down this year, and some of the side discussion that has spawned off...

Lets dicuss this one...

Quote:
just had a near-miss

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


NOW i understand what that means...

I went to make a u-turn at one of my favorite liquor stores after voting today and i see a sportbike flying at me. i hit the brakes and he panics, hitting the brakes himself. he wasn't able to control the bike and he swerved around a bit before crashing right in front of and to the left of my car.

there was no collision with my car and no one was hurt. the bike was scraped up a bit, but i don't think there was any serious damage (might be expensive, but not serious.)

two cops just happened to be across the street and helped us get out of the road and had us exchange info.

we traded information and i'm going to call both insurance companies first thing in the morning (should i call them now?)

i felt bad for the guy...his bike was a little messed up. he was friendly, but a little upset about that. i'm wondering, tho...can i possibly be held liable for any of this?

only the nose of my car was in the intersection. he had plenty of time to maneuver right through or even switch lanes (but he was afraid i was pulling out.) he probably could have even stopped, but i imagine he was going pretty fast...he came right up on me.

what do ya think?
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Old 02-14-2008, 08:07 AM   #2
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Happens a zillion times a day here.

a. cagers don't "see" you. Riding in traffic you have to learn how to read their "intent" and assume the worse.
b. biker sounds like he was going too fast for the conditions/skill level
c. sounds as if the bike locked the rear and got crossed up; more than likely not skilled in use of the front brake and panic braked with the rear
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Old 02-14-2008, 08:08 AM   #3
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i would put blame MOSTLY on the rider, and as such his ins. needs to take care of his bike.

there was no actual collision, so alot of times it's considered a single veh. accident.

i think swerving while braking did him in.
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Old 02-14-2008, 08:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X View Post
i think swerving while braking did him in.
I think the swerving the car driver saw was more likely the rear locked up and sliding.

Flip this around and here would be the riders post on the event:

"So I was minding my own business and this munch cut me off and pulled out in front of me. I was too close and there was gravel in the road and they ran me off the road. F-ing cagers!!"
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Old 02-14-2008, 08:14 AM   #5
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so true!
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Old 02-14-2008, 08:29 AM   #6
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the rider shouldn't have panicked....he might've been alright.

i dont think the driver should be liable.
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Old 02-14-2008, 08:46 AM   #7
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it sounds like the rider was outriding his abilities, going to fast to safely react to the car.
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:38 AM   #8
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The cage should have been paying closer attention, but the bike should have been riding slower and paying attention to cars pulling out. He was riding on a busy road (assuming) - It's unfortunate that he did panic, though, sounds like that's what caused him going down.

My back wheel locked on me once, while stopping at a light, I didn't panic, though, just let off the brake, but I wasn't able to stop in time and ended up going through the intersection- luckily no cross traffic, yet. Now I pay more attention at lights and make sure I have plenty of time to stop.
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
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My back wheel locked on me once, while stopping at a light, I didn't panic, though, just let off the brake, but I wasn't able to stop in time and ended up going through the intersection- luckily no cross traffic, yet. Now I pay more attention at lights and make sure I have plenty of time to stop.
let off? ft brakes?
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X View Post
let off? ft brakes?
I only released the back brake, held the front brake hard. I went about 5' or so into the intersection before I realized I would be better off not trying to stop, but clearing the intersection instead. The light was just about to turn, so that's why there was no cross traffic.
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
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let off? ft brakes?
got lucky she didnt lose it if she let off the rear one.
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:44 AM   #12
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remember from class

ft locks up, release reapply
rear locks up, stay on it.
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:44 AM   #13
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Last edited by badman; 02-14-2008 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
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remember from class

ft locks up, release reapply
rear locks up, stay on it.
Thanks for the reminder- I let off because I learned to drive in a very old car with terrible brakes- when they lock up, pump them... it's hard to let that go. I'm still learning.
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:49 AM   #15
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it is a hard habit to break, but if your rear tire is not in line w/ the ft tire, and you release, bad things CAN happen.
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Thanks for the reminder- I let off because I learned to drive in a very old car with terrible brakes- when they lock up, pump them... it's hard to let that go. I'm still learning.
car and bike brakes are totally different..........................
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:51 AM   #17
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The rider should NOT have panic'd. Car, Bike, bicycle or whatever...panic is not an excuse and is a failure on the part of the person who panics and not the outside sources.
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:53 AM   #18
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Quote:
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car and bike brakes are totally different..........................
That's why I say I'm still learning... I'm very new to riding- less than a year, still, and I'm old, so it's hard to retrain, but I DID learn a lesson, I won't make that same mistake again.
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:01 AM   #19
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to racer and squoddy: you know guys, i have done the very same thing - in panic i locked my rear wheel. So i decided to change my reflexes - opposite to what MSF suggests - in panic i am only going to use my front brake. There was a thread here sometime ago and i totally agree with the physics of it. During panic stop (not MSF quick stop) you push so hard on the front breaks that your rear wheel carries almost no weight (marginally doing a "stoppie") so it makes little sense applying rear. Quick stop is different as it is done not in the panic situation and therefore there is some "margin" still left and therefore rear brake helps (with different proportions 30-70 or 10-90% depending on a bike as the book says)

Of course the most dangerous thing in this is front wheel locking. I have never had that happen. I wish i knew what it feels like as I want to develop the skills to handle it... Actually this brings me to my comment on MSF:
I wish BRC or ERC had the more "challenging" stuff for the students who want to try it. E.g. stopping on gravel (so that your wheels lock (rear, front, or both)...Wheelies, stoppies etc. Something really challenging like that... But i see the problem - it would be very difficult to implement because of the legal liability issues...
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:03 AM   #20
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