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Old 02-13-2008, 05:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawi jm View Post
wow, My posts were THAT negative

sorry
I was thinking the same thing....

mods have been busy the past few days
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Old 02-13-2008, 05:19 PM   #22
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I was thinking the same thing....

mods have been busy the past few days
before you assume anyhting (which most of you do and think your are right) mods deleted on a request. yall can burn bridges with other track organizations all you want and throw around idela situations but those responding, that are actualy involved with running trackdays give facts, dont take as them trying to screw you over.
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Old 02-13-2008, 05:34 PM   #23
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before you assume anyhting (which most of you do and think your are right) mods deleted on a request. yall can burn bridges with other track organizations all you want and throw around idela situations but those responding, that are actualy involved with running trackdays give facts, dont take as them trying to screw you over.
Hold your horses bud....I was referring to John's original post being deleted....
Who said anything about burning bridges:/: I heart LSTD and LMS...now the others, I'll save my breath
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:11 PM   #24
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Hold your horses bud....I was referring to John's original post being deleted....
Who said anything about burning bridges:/: I heart LSTD and LMS...now the others, I'll save my breath
Burning bridges by saying other track places wont give a if it gets rained out because the wont offer some sort of refund policy.

John's post were deleted and other because they were reported as bashing and crossposting by parties involved. Im not going to sit back and let good members like you say something thats not true only for others to take it as gospel as mods erasing it to protect sponsors.
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Old 02-13-2008, 06:26 PM   #25
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Burning bridges by saying other track places wont give a if it gets rained out because the wont offer some sort of refund policy.

John's post were deleted and other because they were reported as bashing and crossposting by parties involved. Im not going to sit back and let good members like you say something thats not true only for others to take it as gospel as mods erasing it to protect sponsors.
Well, the truth hurts sometimes....Buck offers something that others don't....I'm pretty sure that is a true statement, correct?

I don't think I've said one thing that has been untrue

I have asked some general questions and asked for feedback from other trackday participants. I have not said one thing that was untrue or talked down or bad about any one particular trackday organization....please show me somewhere where I did that

I'll let the threads speak multitudes to the members....i.e. last mondays TD with Ride Smart got a whole 7 responses from MH members, 4 of which came from one member

I'm asking for input from all to maybe come up with some sort of "policy" which could benefit us all.....

Here's another idea....every 4 paid trackdays entitles you to ONE "rainday refund"....

For example....I pay for 4 trackdays with LSTD and on the 5th trackday I sign up for it gets completely rained out (well, what I would call a rainout). Being the LOYAL CUSTOMER that I am, LSTD would see that I attend several TD's with them and maybe give me a break due to inclement weather. I know that if all the track gurus put their heads together, someone (maybe more than one) can have an idea that would make sense to TD orginizations (seeing that the track owners won't bend at all).

Does all of that make sense?
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:45 PM   #26
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What is the point to this thread?

LMS is partner with MSRH and offers credit if it rains out.

LSTD, Ride Smart, ELITE, TXTRACKDAY should follow suit and be partner with other available tracks, TWS (Texas World Speedway), OHR, CRESSON, EAGLE CANYON, GRANDSPORT, AND UP OR COMING TRACKS.
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:26 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigComfy View Post
lets wait fo Moe to chime in.
Okay (takes deep breath).

I've said it many times before - but i'll still say it again. Actually I got alot on mind from reading the prior posts in this thread so i'll just go with lil pointers:

1) Plain simply put - Buck got in early with MSRH as a member. Has great relationship with them. Both parties (MSRH & Buck) have made quite a lum some of money off of the track days. In return - (IMO) they have offered a tight technical track, with lots of track time, probably more then Ride Smart, LSTD & TTD could ever offer in a day.

2) Most of us our adults and can manage 20-25 kids with 5 helpers right? Try managing 100 or so kids with let's say 20 helpers. It's not the same . Similarly LMS only has 20-25 riders per event, where as Ride Smart, LSTD & TTD - close to 100 riders per event (depending on track).

You see where I'm getting with this?

3) I'm not even sure why its an on going topic? Buck's got his private track day setup - and only limited to one single track. IF you like riding the same stuff again and again, i'd recommend his gig any day. With Ride Smart/LSTD/TTD - you actually get to try out new tracks, new facilities (some crappy! OHR), meet loads more people, get prizes, etc etc.

You just can not compare the two (LMS VS. Ride Smart/LSTD/TTD). Again, one only does one track, the rest do 4-6 different tracks per year!

4) ON the topic of rain - I'm not even go into the "Why Ride Smart/LSTD can't have a deal like LMS" - we all know why!

I will however comment on how much rain riding can help you.

5) I've done several track days with Ride Smart & LSTD where it has drizzled, rained, poured n woofies - I honestly had a blast on all of em. On one Ride Smart event that i was riding in "B" group, it was just me and 3 other riders on a track like 2.9 miles! Ty Howard was one of them and I ended up getting over an hour of one on one with him, had it not been for rain I don't think I would have ever had such a great track day!

6) I'm orignally from California, and I think we (yes me too), Track day riders are whiney lil bitoches. We've been given waay more then what we can handle! I mean this year we will will have over 6 TD organizations running at over 8 tracks for over 9 months out of the year! I mean there ARE some states in America that are fortunate just to have more then 3-5 track days for the whole year (STILL - in 2008!)

We've just been spoilt! :/: and it me off of how ungrateful we are. We should thank Ride Smart & LSTD & TTD (in the future) for bring us soo many track dates at soo many different tracks at such an F`ing reasonable price.

Have anyone of you ever seen the costs of decent tracks in Cali or in other states?

You guys are crying over $100-150 track days? Gah Lee! Just last weekend Ride Smart held a track day @ Cresson for $100 and also fed people with burgers, hot dogs, choclates, coffee etc etc twice (the night before for the campers) aswell as for lunch!

All for $100 - I mean that's "one-hundred" dolaz (old asian lady voice)! I remember my friend up in MN about $450 + track days with no rain policy!

7) So now here's what you need to do -

- Invest in rain tires (although I think street tires and just fine!)
- Go buy a $80-100 slick rain suit (kinda like the one Taichi) makes, that goes over your leather in a very tight fit with holes for your knee sliders aswell!
- Or just buy a $20 rain suit from WallyMart!
- Show up with more then one pair of socks, non-vent boots & gloves, two helmets (yes you all have more then one!).
- Bring it positive and learn to ride in the rain, some of my best riding has been in rain (BigComfy knows what i'm talking about)!



Now stop, go back and read No. 7 again and go to MotoLiberty.com and buy that friggin rain suit - it works great and is the same as what some of the MotoGP riders wear while racing in rain! You always wanted to feel like them right well here's your chance!
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:38 PM   #28
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I have a sinking feeling that one day this will be offered. Once there are more tracks and riders to get such a rain out. Seems it could happen just not at this time. I could honestly care less. As it is the "nature" of the beast, something that non of us have control over the dam weather. that is one job you can always be wrong and still get paid and have a job. So I live with the idea that it is up to me to decide on who to ride with and if it rains then so be it. I will always get to ride another day.


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Well said Jet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBuck
As Radar said in another thread...what keeps Ride Smart, LSTD, TTD (or any other TD org) from forming the same type of relationship that Buck has with MSRH??? Especially if they (the track orgs) have several years of business with these folks?
Wouldn't that be nice. However, none of the other tracks have a "country club" membership like the Mercedes course does except MSR. The Motor Sports Ranch does give us exceptional service when it comes to weather, and in the past, they have "helped" us be available to give refunds/ credits. Additionally, I don't think anyone has given out more credits for weather than we did, especially last year. We don't put people on the track if it's dangerous, and back that up with refunds when we can (which has been every time last year that it happened).

A couple of things to consider, if it's a CMRA race weekend, it won't be canceled for rain except under the weather policy of CMRA which includes verbiage like "in case of dangerous weather"; and it's then further defined. Racers will practice in the rain, especially if it's a weekend where rain is a possibility.

Some limitations of a "partnership" with a particular track: you can only schedule at their discretion, you have to share the track with cars, you have a limited amount of people that can attend, it is almost impossible to have multiple groups (which we feel is much safer) while sharing with cars (unless you cut sessions to 15 minutes), the track is going to want the lion's share of the profit due to their absorbing the operating costs, at non-club tracks cars don't want to "share" the track (we've done some research) and don't care if motorcycles will help defray the cost of track rental... I could go on and on.


The costs of track days is already going up, at some track days, the cost is already much higher than our costs. How many people are actually willing to spend more money than it currently costs to have track days? I can guarantee that if people want to have it, orgs can increase the costs even more so that you can have an event that gets rained out and be able to leave with refund (whatever it turns out to be).

Look at some nation wide providers, and local providers in different States, I think you'll see that we've got it really good here. The others have a lot of hidden costs and small print that catch some folks by surprise- trust me, nobody is giving anything away for free and nobody is in business to lose money. Especially the tracks.
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:43 PM   #29
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I understand all points of veiw. I just wish all track owners could be rain out friendly. I've had mad crashes from pushing it in the rain. It sucks. :/: "sighs"
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:59 PM   #30
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I understand all points of veiw. I just wish all track owners could be rain out friendly. I've had mad crashes from pushing it in the rain. It sucks. :/: "sighs"
I hear ya, I've also had some crashes in the rain... not nearly as bad as the crashes I've seen or had in the dry though...
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:02 PM   #31
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Let me start off by saying I don't have a horse in this race.

However, I have been around trackdays for 8 years now and am pretty intimately familiar with how they run, so I'll just play Devils Advocate here.


First off, let me say that in my experience, Bucks situation with MSR is very unique to say the least.

It is the "exception" not the rule.

That's not just here in Texas, but nationwide, there's very few people who enjoy the type of situation Buck does.

Also, the manner in which Bucks track days run, simultaneous to member days (cars), and with no real group / skill level divisions on the track, make his situation like comparing apples to oranges when comparing to other organizations.
Note, I didn't say better or worse, just different.


As far as being an "armchair quarterback" and saying the track day organizations should become "partners" with the tracks;
Don't you think the track day organizations have already thought of this and attempted it?

The closest thing you may have to that is LSTD's relationship with MSR Cresson, and it's more that Jack, the owner / manager, is just a stand up guy than anything else.


Most of the rest of the tracks could care less, to varying degrees.

The track owners have a commodity; track time, and that's available only a set amount of days a year.

If they "comp" a day because of rain, that's one less day of income they receive.

Kind of like YOU working a day for free.


In the end, for some type of "track insurance" to work, you'd have to have enough people buying it to make it worth the track day organizations while.


IMO, I'd rather keep my $50.00, (just using DBucks figure here) and put it towards something else.


If I do just 5 track days a year, that $50.00 adds up to $250.00.

I'd rather take the odds that we might get rained out.


Lastly, if you disagree, I have a proposal for you;
Start your own track day organization.
Deal with all of the variables that come with putting on a track day, and then come on here with your suggestions of how to make things better.


My 2 cents, YMMV.
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:19 PM   #32
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pay for the trackday, take your chances or stay home and go to work.

The organisers don't Own the tracks, they are rented and therefore follow the rules of the TRACK owners.

you guys keep posing questions to the general public, questions in which we can't either answer or change the rules too.

like tom and patrick said, it's a chance we all take and an extra 50 bucks isn't going to change one thing in this game.

quit blaming the next guy for all the bullshit that is constantly caused by the unknowing.

you guys keep letting get to you, all answers here are either thoughts or opinions, none of us make nor change the rules so get over it.
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:25 PM   #33
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pay for the trackday, take your chances or stay home and go to work.

The organisers don't Own the tracks, they are rented and therefore follow the rules of the TRACK owners.

you guys keep posing questions to the general public, questions in which we can't either answer or change the rules too.

like tom and patrick said, it's a chance we all take and an extra 50 bucks isn't going to change one thing in this game.

quit blaming the next guy for all the bullshit that is constantly caused by the unknowing.

you guys keep letting get to you, all answers here are either thoughts or opinions, none of us make nor change the rules so get over it.
That's right! Misst spelts annuciations and all!
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:31 PM   #34
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Maybe....but prob not only b/c I like riding in the rain.
Do you still ride? I mean big bikes.....the mini doesn't count.

Seriously, I think all the track orgs do the best they can.....it's a business and it HAS to be treated as such.

We're in TEXAS........the weather changes pretty quickly around here. :/:
 
Old 02-13-2008, 10:33 PM   #35
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:34 PM   #36
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:41 PM   #37
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That's right! Misst spelts annuciations and all!
shut up tiny!
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:45 PM   #38
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shut up tiny!
Otay, big daddy.....
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:46 PM   #39
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shut up tiny!
Uh...thats the pot calling the kettle black
 
Old 02-13-2008, 10:53 PM   #40
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Wow.....amazing to find how so many know so much about something they know nothing about. Yes I got in as a "Founding Member", I believed in them early and they believe in me. LSTD was offered the in house school in the beginning if I remember correctly, but passed. I took it on after the Sanchez boys asked for help, then carried it on when they quit. We do have a numbers guarantee with MSRH, so we may not rent the whole track, but the risk is there. Lost my on the ladies day last year!!!(you're welcome T) I lose out on the ambulance for rain outs, but what is 500.00 vs. a bunch of happy riders?
We have NEVER tried to be a trackday for the average joe. We started as a place for the more experienced riders to get together and get it on. The noob days came about by request and have given us some great riders as well. But in the end we still look to be a provider for the more experienced rider with some seat time under thier belt. I've done all the other organizations and went with a plan that gave me what I wanted out of a trackday.....expert help if I want it, more seat time than I can stand(30 minute sessions 8 times a day), great friendly staff, and an uncrowded track. Top all that off with a laid back atmosphere that lets folks be themselves and have fun. Oh and a killer rain policy........
We still don't make folks prepay, the honor policy has weeded out the folks we don't want just fine. We have no desire to go to any other track, never did. We are the in house school for MSRH and that's all we really want. PERIOD. We don't even try to compete with anyone.

In the end, you will NEVER see a rain policy beyond what you see already. Tracks are not going to let it happen. When given the choice between cars and bikes, the tracks will go with cars everytime. They run reguardless and don't about the small stuff. Bikes will always be a second thought to track owners, just know that ALL the trackday organizers are trying to do right by you reguardless. Why whould they try to you off? Take your lumps as part of the sport, and yes riding in the rain can be fun and educational if you are into it. I'm not...... and have the good fortune to offer the only real rain out policy so you don't have to either.
Good luck to all you who may find yourself in the wet this weekend, stay focused and more than anything else...........be smooth.
Hope to see you at the track in March with sunshine!!
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