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Old 01-29-2008, 03:22 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
Good post Rob.
The guys I ride with actually speed up for the corners and slow back down in the straights.
+1
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:35 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robz1000 View Post
LOL...it has nothing to do with "lack of skill" or being "afraid of their own skill". Advising someone to take a blind curve at digit speed on a public roadway is just plain dumb a$$ advise...I'll GLADLY ride alone and keep my happy a$$ away from dangerous riders.
No one was suggesting taking a blind curve at digit speed. Nor would I ever even attempt such a thing, this is not what I am looking to accomplish. I hardly ride at digits on straights and even then that only occurs under specific circumstances. So you can take that idea and toss it out the window.
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:49 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
No one was suggesting taking a blind curve at digit speed. Nor would I ever even attempt such a thing, this is not what I am looking to accomplish. I hardly ride at digits on straights and even then that only occurs under specific circumstances. So you can take that idea and toss it out the window.
There WAS a post advising you to take curves "at double and triple" the posted speed.....that why I posted my first post. Going 120 on a 40 posted speed curve???? and getting hate for saying it's bad advise? ...whatever floats your boat.

Have fun and be safe
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:04 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07SLVRCBR View Post
The double indicated is usually a good place to start, until you grow more familiar with the road. I've done up to triple the posted on some curves (crabb's pretty good some days).
This is all that was said about triple the posted speed. That could mean 90mph in a 30mph turn. I'm no where near even wanting to attempt that on the street. I probably wouldn't even attempt that on the track, at least not yet anyway.

So I've read a little in 'A twist of the wrist volume II'. The beginning talks about survival reactions, which fits what I am experiencing perfectly. Over braking and rolling off the throttle for unnecessary reasons.

Quote:
The standard SR triggers are:

"In too fast."
"Going too wide,"
"Too steep lean angle."
"Concerned about traction."

Bumps, traffic and others are secondary sources of unneeded throttle roll-off. That riders most often realize the roll-off was not necessary, right after doing it, is also further proof it was an automatic SR, Ever happen to you?
^^ That is what I tend to do for no apparent reason and I am trying to avoid doing it.
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:52 PM   #85
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Sounds like you need to get a partner you can trust, and take turns leading and watching to see what is throwing you off.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:12 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
So I've read a little in 'A twist of the wrist volume II'. The beginning talks about survival reactions, which fits what I am experiencing perfectly. Over braking and rolling off the throttle for unnecessary reasons.
^^ That is what I tend to do for no apparent reason and I am trying to avoid doing it.
On a typical corner are you having to adjust your apex multiple times?
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:27 PM   #87
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sounds like you need to quit worrying about this on the streets and hit the track
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:33 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
Sounds like you need to get a partner you can trust, and take turns leading and watching to see what is throwing you off.
Thats what Im saying. Going on a few of jimmy'z rides and following some others that knew what they were doing helped me learn a lot and in a hurry too. (prob pushed me a bit farther than I should have gone)

May not be for everyone but it worked to help me along.

BTW I wanna go if yall do that
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Old 01-29-2008, 09:30 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
Sounds like you need to get a partner you can trust, and take turns leading and watching to see what is throwing you off.
Is that an offer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarosean View Post
On a typical corner are you having to adjust your apex multiple times?
No not really I think my line is fairly decent. After reading more of this book I think it's just automatic as described in the book. The book explains things that you wouldn't normally think about or understand why it is happening. Now I have a better understanding.

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Originally Posted by Somebody1010 View Post
sounds like you need to quit worrying about this on the streets and hit the track
So you mean to tell me you don't ride on the street? I'm sorry to hear that but probably 99% of the members here do. I enjoy cruising out through the forest or through country roads. Just to show you how conservative I am my originial tire had almost 6500 miles on it and the only reason I changed it was because it picked up a nail. My current tire has almost 1000 miles on it with about an inch of unscuffed rubber on either side.

I don't think I mentioned wanting to get a knee down or any of that nonsense. I was just trying to understand cornering better since I had never asked anyone before I figured I would ask. Didn't you ever ask any questions or did you have all the answers as soon as you hopped on your bike?

Seriously ................... I AM SIGNED UP FOR A TRACK DAY IN MARCH I AM GOING TO THE TRACK TO LEARN LEARN LEARN. I understand that this is where I will learn the most and am committed to going and learning. Instead of just saying "goto the track" why don't you tell me how you do it on the track so perhaps that will help me when I or others do attend a track day... I only mentioned the street because THAT IS WHERE I RIDE MY MOTORBIKE, don't you?

The only reason why I decided to post this was to get others opinions. As I stated there are times when I am following someone or just riding by myself. I go through the turn and when I am about half way in I realize I slowed down way to much and shouldn't have. I continue to do this and wanted to understand how other people setup and enter a turn.

A twist of the wrist is answering this question for me and is helping me understand a lot more now. I should have read this book a long time ago when I first heard about it. So if there are any new riders reading this post you should read these books.

Moving on now.
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:40 PM   #90
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Brandon,
Just remember that taking corners on the street is alot different than taking corners on the track. I believe there are principals we can learn on the track, that we can apply to the street in theory, but not literal application (if your focus is on riding safe, and not racing on the streets). When I have gone on group rides, everyone seems to go completely against what I have been taught to ride on the streets, and they ride twisties like they're on the track (fast in, fast out), hanging way too far off, dragging knee, etc.). They're very good riders, and good peeps, but man, that just scares me!

If texlurch is indeed willing to take you on a ride, with just you and him only, then that would be the best thing you could do for yourself, because he knows what I'm talking about. A spirited group ride with riders you are not familiar with, and whom may well be unfamiliar with each other, is not the way to go, and imho, you may learn bad habits. Texlurch, I have only met once, but I already knew he was a seasoned, and mature rider. He is a motorcyclist. Read "The Pace" and learn its principals. Smooth in, smooth out or "slow in, fast out". That's what it's all about on the streets to being a smart rider. You will soon love corners as opportunities to try to be even smoother than before, and you will find yourself going slower on the straights, and "faster" on the turns (almost complete opposite of racing track).

I have been a street rider all my life, and I love it, and I cannot ever see myself giving that up, because to me that's what the whole motorcycling experience is all about... just me, my machine, and the open road. The fun, the adrenaline, the risk, the excitement, the solitude, the peace, the smell, the sound, etc., etc... just come along with it. I've got a sense that you feel the same way. Strive to be a motorcyclist, and not just a guy who can ride a sportbike fast and hard.
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Old 01-29-2008, 11:04 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
Is that an offer?



No not really I think my line is fairly decent. After reading more of this book I think it's just automatic as described in the book. The book explains things that you wouldn't normally think about or understand why it is happening. Now I have a better understanding.



So you mean to tell me you don't ride on the street? I'm sorry to hear that but probably 99% of the members here do. I enjoy cruising out through the forest or through country roads. Just to show you how conservative I am my originial tire had almost 6500 miles on it and the only reason I changed it was because it picked up a nail. My current tire has almost 1000 miles on it with about an inch of unscuffed rubber on either side.

I don't think I mentioned wanting to get a knee down or any of that nonsense. I was just trying to understand cornering better since I had never asked anyone before I figured I would ask. Didn't you ever ask any questions or did you have all the answers as soon as you hopped on your bike?

Seriously ................... I AM SIGNED UP FOR A TRACK DAY IN MARCH I AM GOING TO THE TRACK TO LEARN LEARN LEARN. I understand that this is where I will learn the most and am committed to going and learning. Instead of just saying "goto the track" why don't you tell me how you do it on the track so perhaps that will help me when I or others do attend a track day... I only mentioned the street because THAT IS WHERE I RIDE MY MOTORBIKE, don't you?

The only reason why I decided to post this was to get others opinions. As I stated there are times when I am following someone or just riding by myself. I go through the turn and when I am about half way in I realize I slowed down way to much and shouldn't have. I continue to do this and wanted to understand how other people setup and enter a turn.

A twist of the wrist is answering this question for me and is helping me understand a lot more now. I should have read this book a long time ago when I first heard about it. So if there are any new riders reading this post you should read these books.

Moving on now.
I do not ride on the streets any more and have not for most of this year, I sold my street bike not too long ago. Im not bashing you in any way saying to get off the streets. IMO i learned more in one TD then i did with 10,000 miles on the street. Just be careful out there as id hate someone to get hurt over "trying to improve corner speed".

My advice on more corner speed is keep looking through the corner. I find the further i look the better. If i start looking too close to me i start running wide and much slower.
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Old 01-29-2008, 11:14 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
Is that an offer?
Anytime I am in town, give a holler! Just remember I am sllloow and don't run over me.

The Twist books are more aimed at the track, and have some very good mental points to consider; I like Sport Riding Techniques much more for a "street" rider, because he tells it like it is and why, from experience.
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Old 01-29-2008, 11:27 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JET View Post
Good thread, the only thing is that I can add. DONT FOLLOW A PERSON YOU THINK IS FASTER.

J
Excellent point. Also why I tell everyone to open it up to 2-3 seconds in the twisties, to cut down on target fixation.
Also why we make the point several times to ride your own ride to new people on our rides, as we don't brake much, and newer riders can get sucked into corners at a much higher rate then they are ready for. Since they are waiting on the brake lights, and never get them and it's too late at that point.
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Old 01-29-2008, 11:36 PM   #94
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The further you look down the road the smoother your turns will become.

Basically, when your going through a turn you should already be looking at the next one or at least searching for it. Your body will naturally follow where your eyes are looking.
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Old 01-29-2008, 11:44 PM   #95
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Quote:
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The further you look down the road the smoother your turns will become.

Basically, when your going through a turn you should already be looking at the next one or at least searching for it. Your body will naturally follow where your eyes are looking.
True, but on the street you may miss that hole or oil spot.

I prefer to scan with my eyes from about 10 feet ahead to all the way out of the turn, and back, constantly moving my eyes. I just "visualize" the line/arc I want to follow, and move my eyes along that line. It also helps as you learn to not fixate on any particular spot, and take in all the information and discard what you don't need. Takes time to learn, but you'll find it helps in all driving situations.

I also find that if you turn your head into the turn, and not just your eyes, the bike will follow.
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Old 01-30-2008, 12:10 AM   #96
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Quote:
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True, but on the street you may miss that hole or oil spot.

I prefer to scan with my eyes from about 10 feet ahead to all the way out of the turn, and back, constantly moving my eyes. I just "visualize" the line/arc I want to follow, and move my eyes along that line. It also helps as you learn to not fixate on any particular spot, and take in all the information and discard what you don't need. Takes time to learn, but you'll find it helps in all driving situations.

I also find that if you turn your head into the turn, and not just your eyes, the bike will follow.
Yeah, there's alot to look for in the streets. I look ahead and also move my eyes but not so much as constantly and physically scanning them back and forth, but moreso as I might quickly flick a look here at something that catches my eye, then flick a look there, then back ahead again, where my primary focus is the horizon. My peripheral vision may cause me to flick a quick look at something that alerts me. Maybe I should try your technique, because I can certainly see how incorporating a smooth scanning methodology can translate to a smoother turn. Hmmmm.....

And turning your whole head (instead of just your eyes) into the turn is the way to go. I do that too, but I remember that took a while, and a conscious effort, to learn and get used to that technique.
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Old 01-30-2008, 08:07 AM   #97
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anyone using a street sign for cornering guidance is makin' a mistake.
come to track days.
LSTD.
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Old 01-30-2008, 10:55 AM   #98
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anyone using a street sign for cornering guidance is makin' a mistake.
come to track days.
LSTD.
Why? It's not the track, and there are no braking markers on the road.
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Old 01-30-2008, 11:05 AM   #99
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Good thread, the only thing is that I can add. DONT FOLLOW A PERSON YOU THINK IS FASTER.

The reason I say that is this, we went to fayetteville one day. I was behind a busa and I was following him. Not riding my own ride. He went wide and I went wide behind him, well I went a little further out. There was a on comming vehicle in that lane I went wide in, was a ways away but still. I could probably have made it, as you see I said PROBABLY. I choose to in a flash of milli sec, decided to take the ditch, I looked it had no fence. It was deep though, I went into the ditch into a corn field probably approx 60-70 miles an hour. I got lucky as and learn a lot that day, I jumped the ditch and then I was approx 1' at min in the air on 3-4 times. I even jumped the people drive way, almost went to there door step. I was in shock that I was able to keep her up, just pulled the clutch and rode her out. I kept the bike up the whole time. It was pure luck, I turned around and to the people that were with me, suprised that I didnt my pants LOL. Seriously I was lucky, so dont follow anyone like that it can get you in trouble.


J
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Old 01-30-2008, 11:09 AM   #100
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Quote:
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Good thread, the only thing is that I can add. DONT FOLLOW A PERSON YOU THINK IS FASTER.

The reason I say that is this, we went to fayetteville one day. I was behind a busa and I was following him. Not riding my own ride. He went wide and I went wide behind him, well I went a little further out. There was a on comming vehicle in that lane I went wide in, was a ways away but still. I could probably have made it, as you see I said PROBABLY. I choose to in a flash of milli sec, decided to take the ditch, I looked it had no fence. It was deep though, I went into the ditch into a corn field probably approx 60-70 miles an hour. I got lucky as and learn a lot that day, I jumped the ditch and then I was approx 1' at min in the air on 3-4 times. I even jumped the people drive way, almost went to there door step. I was in shock that I was able to keep her up, just pulled the clutch and rode her out. I kept the bike up the whole time. It was pure luck, I turned around and to the people that were with me, suprised that I didnt my pants LOL. Seriously I was lucky, so dont follow anyone like that it can get you in trouble.


J

Video or it didn't happen just kidding.

Good thread...
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