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Old 01-28-2008, 07:38 PM   #21
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As a rule of thumb I dbl the posted turn speed on the roads that I know and know well.

You'll be amazed at how much your going to learn about yourself, your bike, and tires after your 1st TD.

Go there with a very open mind and learn how to ride. Body postionin, braking, reference points will all be covered by the instructors. Just bring yourself and your bike to the noob day and get comfy with your new addiction.

Most important thing about street riding and track riding is to leave your ego at home.

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Old 01-28-2008, 08:08 PM   #22
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Dude, don't press your luck on the street. There is a "noob" track day coming up on February 16th at Grand Sport Speedway (South Houston)- 'lil over 2 weeks away.

Once you do that, the riding on the street judging corners and control will become much easier.

Plenty of excellent instructors to help you- almost all of them have been racing/ riding for decades, class and overall champions in the CMRA! Once you attend the track day and rider's school on this "noob" day (February 16th), you'll come away with a big sense of accomplishment and new skills! No other riding/ track schools can boast the quality and level of skill of these instructors.

Leave your corner speed improvements on the track and stop taking chances on the street dude, you'll appreciate it later.

Sign up at www.lstd.com, I think the price for the track day is only $140 no tax, for the whole track day.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:37 PM   #23
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I'm a complete noob (I feel) as I mentioned I'm not trying to race around on the street. I'm just trying to get others opinions on cornering. I don't have any way to transport my bike at this time, so signing up for trackdays is difficult. I'm not using this as an excuse and I am totally open/willing to ride on the track. I managed to score a ride with someone to the 03/08 noob day. I wasn't aware of any noob day on 02/16. I'll have to see if anyone I know is going.

I am not at all trying to ride crazy on the street, I am just looking to work on a few improvements when I'm out riding. Thanks everyone for your input on the subject.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:02 PM   #24
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One thing that really helped me was getting the revs up while setting up for the corner. I am getting to where I don't touch the brake much just down shifting and letting the engine braking slow me down. I will still cover the brakes in case I need them. When you hit the corner maintain the throttle or crack it open a hair more till you hit the apex and give it the gas. I found that when the revs are high and you find yourself going a little wide you can let off the throttle a bit and it will cause the bike to transfer weight to the front tire and steer back into the corner. Really helped me. The Keith Code book and others talk about these things. I would read that book before track day and you will probably already have a grasp of what the instructor is talking about. I have been wanting to do a trackday myself. Thinking about signing up for the one on 2/16. Hope I helped.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:08 PM   #25
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be careful with the ol "double the posted speed" trick. sometimes when they say 15mph through a turn, they mean it.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitar Man View Post
One thing that really helped me was getting the revs up while setting up for the corner. I am getting to where I don't touch the brake much just down shifting and letting the engine braking slow me down. I will still cover the brakes in case I need them. When you hit the corner maintain the throttle or crack it open a hair more till you hit the apex and give it the gas. I found that when the revs are high and you find yourself going a little wide you can let off the throttle a bit and it will cause the bike to transfer weight to the front tire and steer back into the corner. Really helped me. The Keith Code book and others talk about these things. I would read that book before track day and you will probably already have a grasp of what the instructor is talking about. I have been wanting to do a trackday myself. Thinking about signing up for the one on 2/16. Hope I helped.
Yeah I tend to engine brake mostly, I hardly hit the brakes when approaching a turn. Unless I feel that I'm coming in to hot, then i'll give a little brake. I've also been able to maintain higher rpm's (8k+) and it's really helped me improve quite a bit. 07' R6 powerband starts at 10k rpm so getting them up there on the street is a challenge in itself. I have eased off the gas in a few turns that took me by surprise and did notice the bike coming back to the inside. Of course I was leaning the out of it too..

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be careful with the ol "double the posted speed" trick. sometimes when they say 15mph through a turn, they mean it.
Yeah typically anything over 30-35 are usually safe to double (from my experience). For those 15 and 25's I always slow down almost to the posted speed depending on the turn and visibility.

Good comments, I'm sure others may find this information useful as well.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:48 PM   #27
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It helped me when I would follow someone (better) than me through the twisties. Its a bad idea for new guys and would only recommend it if you feel comfortable with pushing yourself.

It helped me gain confidence and that way you can get an idea of the line you want. You have to get use to riding fast. It gets chaotic at times but the more you do it. The more natural it will feel. Just take baby steps like mentioned.

If its on the street then you need to get good at reading the road. Like above mentioned. Amount of traction.. hazards.. etc..

BTW I would love to do a track day. I know I could really improve my skills over street riding because of all the dangers/variables.

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Old 01-28-2008, 10:06 PM   #28
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bunch of good advice from the track guys brandon, after i while imho you tend to know how your bike feels, and if your ever doubling the speed turn make sure you can see through it to you never want to be taking a turn to fast on the street and then have to all a sudden hit the brake and you cant straighten up in time, look at the turn, look past it, look where you need to go, then make your decision, my .02 is all
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:39 PM   #29
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Quote:
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Not a very smart rule for ones self.... all corners are different.... Are the turns Constant Radius, Increasing Radius, Decreasing Radius? Do they have Positive Camber, Off Camber?

Can you answer those questions truthfully?
Shouldn't the Department of Transportation have taken the same ideas into consideration? These signs, while not for racing, are there for the same purpose for other motor vehicles.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:56 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
Yeah I tend to engine brake mostly, I hardly hit the brakes when approaching a turn. Unless I feel that I'm coming in to hot, then i'll give a little brake. I've also been able to maintain higher rpm's (8k+) and it's really helped me improve quite a bit. 07' R6 powerband starts at 10k rpm so getting them up there on the street is a challenge in itself. I have eased off the gas in a few turns that took me by surprise and did notice the bike coming back to the inside. Of course I was leaning the out of it too..



Yeah typically anything over 30-35 are usually safe to double (from my experience). For those 15 and 25's I always slow down almost to the posted speed depending on the turn and visibility.

Good comments, I'm sure others may find this information useful as well.
Yea, it takes time. I have finally got down as far as 2nd on some turns and have the revs up towards 11-12K. I even shifted up at red line a few times. The bike feels a lot tighter and more controllable and you have more confidence. And when you gas it after the apex it will sling shot you out of the turn. I'm no expert and will never claim to be, but in the last 2 weeks my riding has moved to the next level. I feel more comfortable and don't get that scared feeling as often now. I see vids of guys riding and they are shifting at red line and keeping the revs way up. Now I see why they do that. And the higher revs will not hurt the engine and tranny, they were designed to perform in such conditions.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:20 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitar Man View Post
One thing that really helped me was getting the revs up while setting up for the corner. I am getting to where I don't touch the brake much just down shifting and letting the engine braking slow me down. I will still cover the brakes in case I need them. When you hit the corner maintain the throttle or crack it open a hair more till you hit the apex and give it the gas. I found that when the revs are high and you find yourself going a little wide you can let off the throttle a bit and it will cause the bike to transfer weight to the front tire and steer back into the corner. Really helped me. The Keith Code book and others talk about these things. I would read that book before track day and you will probably already have a grasp of what the instructor is talking about. I have been wanting to do a trackday myself. Thinking about signing up for the one on 2/16. Hope I helped.
we need to get you out on the track too!!!

you've got the idea almost right...but engine braking is not what you should rely on. use your brakes, that's what they are there for. you can control how much you slow down with your brakes.....you cannot control how much engine brake you have to slow yourself down.

by loading the front tire to help you steer back in from going wide....you are asking to tuck the front and cause you to slide out. you want to try and keep an even load on the tires when in mid corner. every movement made in a corner should be smooth and easy. sudden moves can be ingredients for disaster.

sign up for the trackday, and you can apply everything you know about cornering, then you can also get critique and advise on what can be improved.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:23 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitar Man View Post
Yea, it takes time. I have finally got down as far as 2nd on some turns and have the revs up towards 11-12K. I even shifted up at red line a few times. The bike feels a lot tighter and more controllable and you have more confidence. And when you gas it after the apex it will sling shot you out of the turn. I'm no expert and will never claim to be, but in the last 2 weeks my riding has moved to the next level. I feel more comfortable and don't get that scared feeling as often now. I see vids of guys riding and they are shifting at red line and keeping the revs way up. Now I see why they do that. And the higher revs will not hurt the engine and tranny, they were designed to perform in such conditions.
it's to stay within the powerband of the bike....the rpm range where the bike makes the most power. as you have stated, to help "slingshot" you outta the turns.

in other words, gives you a harder drive leaving the corners. i'd have to disagree about the bike feeling tighter and more controlable though.....if you're not smooth with the bike being in the powerband....it can be a mean SOB.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:29 PM   #33
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I am thinking a track day will really do wonders for me now after the last two weeks.

I have worked on being smooth as well. I know it would not take much at all to break that bike loose in mid corner. I still use the brakes a little but not near as much as I use to. If I move the throttle at all while I'm in the corner it's maybe a millimeter either way and very smooth. Maybe even less than a mm.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:31 PM   #34
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Double the yellow sign is a good rule of thumb, but I tend to late apex on the street so I can see what the corner is doing. In other words, wait until you can see where the turn is going, and what the road surface looks like, then turn hard and one time and get back to the gas.

Don't coast into turns, go in at a light throttle to settle the bike and then accellerate at first opportunity. Slow in-fast out is where it's at on the street, and leaves you a safety margin as well.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:32 PM   #35
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Quote:
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I am thinking a track day will really do wonders for me now after the last two weeks.

I have worked on being smooth as well. I know it would not take much at all to break that bike loose in mid corner. I still use the brakes a little but not near as much as I use to. If I move the throttle at all while I'm in the corner it's maybe a millimeter either way and very smooth. Maybe even less than a mm.


that's the key to tame the beast.

if only i can work on that i'd crash less!

if you haven't already signed up, email slowboattx@yahoo.com to register for buck's noob day on mar 8th. you won't regret it! a day full of learning and honing (sp?) of the skills you've already had or will achieve. might even save your life on the streets one day
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:34 PM   #36
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Quote:
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it's to stay within the powerband of the bike....the rpm range where the bike makes the most power. as you have stated, to help "slingshot" you outta the turns.

in other words, gives you a harder drive leaving the corners. i'd have to disagree about the bike feeling tighter and more controlable though.....if you're not smooth with the bike being in the powerband....it can be a mean SOB.
I don't know how else to describe it other than tighter and more controlable. I can see where you are probably coming from if I were to go faster in the future. I guess I am getting the smoothness down pretty good though. I'm not sure where the power band is on my bike, something that I am going to look up again because I used to know. But when I come off the apex and hit the throttle that bike will go.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:39 PM   #37
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Double the yellow sign is a good rule of thumb, but I tend to late apex on the street so I can see what the corner is doing. In other words, wait until you can see where the turn is going, and what the road surface looks like, then turn hard and one time and get back to the gas.

Don't coast into turns, go in at a light throttle to settle the bike and then accellerate at first opportunity. Slow in-fast out is where it's at on the street, and leaves you a safety margin as well.
Coasting into turns and in 6th gear resulted in my accident 2 yrs ago which resulted in a broken foot and ankle. I vowed to increase my riding ability and go back to that corner and confront my demons. The first time I went back through that corner I was literally scared to death, but I did it and now I go through that same corner and don't even break a sweat anymore. A lesson hard learned but learned none the less.

Man this stuff is pretty cool. I'm finally getting it after all this time, and it's doubled my pleasure of riding.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:44 PM   #38
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Coasting puts too much weight on the front, and throws the goemetry of the bike off. Just a little throttle will "set" the bike and make the suspension work the way it was designed.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:56 PM   #39
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Coasting puts too much weight on the front, and throws the goemetry of the bike off. Just a little throttle will "set" the bike and make the suspension work the way it was designed.
Yea, figuring out how that weight transfer thing works is definitely worth knowing. I get the feeling there are a lot of riders out there that end up in ditches that find out the hard way like I did.

Man I can't stress it enough. If you never go to a trackday at least buy the Code books or Sport Riding Techniques by Nich Ienatsch. There is a ton of good info in those books. And don't just read them once and never pick them up again. I am constantly referencing from the books I have before and after the rides to see what I might have missed and what I can improve on.

Thanks for the link house I am going to try and scrape the money together and come out.
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:03 AM   #40
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alot of good info ! if u get a chance pick up "sport riding techniques" i think nick ien-something is the aurthor . really good read also .
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