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Old 01-28-2008, 06:40 PM   #1
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Entrance speed

I've been critiquing my riding a bit lately trying to improve my leaning/cornering etc. I've come to realize that about half way through the turn that I could be going 20-30mph faster fairly easily. How do some of you determine entrance speed? I think this is where I am messing up. I think I slow down way to much for no apparent reason.

Typically if there is a turn sign with a posted speed I tend to double it for my entrance speed (30, I go 60 / 35 I go 70) etc. I can't figure out what causes me to slow down so much, I'm assuming at this point that it's just lack of experience or lack of trust of what may/may not be in the turn (road kill or other ).

I usually slow/settle the bike before getting to the entrance and then I will begin to speed up as I enter the turn and once I reach the apex I roll on the throttle and accelerate out of the turn. Should I be rolling on the throttle sooner or something? I've also been playing with body position but I've not gone into any turns fast enough for it to make any noticeable difference.

What do you guys think and how do you determine your entrance speed?
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:43 PM   #2
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take it to the track if you really want to work on corner speed. on the road is a bad idea.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:45 PM   #3
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The double indicated is usually a good place to start, until you grow more familiar with the road. I've done up to triple the posted on some curves (crabb's pretty good some days).

Edit:
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Originally Posted by fly_737 View Post
take it to the track if you really want to work on corner speed. on the road is a bad idea.
Not too shabby advice there either.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:46 PM   #4
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use reference points....and it'll help you become faster. try reading keith code's book "twist of the wrist".....and you'll understand riding much better.

rolling on throttle depends whenever it's necessary really. the sooner you can get on the throttle, the better.

of course, i would not be trying my luck and learn cornering skills on the street. learn on the track, and you'll thank yourself later. you don't wanna be the roadkill that someone else is trying to avoid.

sign up for the MSRH trackday on Feb 16th or Mar 8th (noob day) with Longhorn Motorcycle School.....and i'll help you with your cornering abilities or lack thereof
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:47 PM   #5
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You shouldn't be braking as late as possible anyways on the street. I'd rather be slow in/fast out. At least you leave a bigger margin should something be in the road.

Buuuut, if it's the same corner you usually take over and over, bring it up around 5mph each time.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly_737 View Post
take it to the track if you really want to work on corner speed. on the road is a bad idea.
I am attending the 03/08 track noob day for this very reason. But I am just trying to understand how others handle corners. I'm not looking to be going triple digits into a 30mph turn or anything. I'm just trying to be able to judge turns better.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofpain View Post

sign up for the MSRH trackday on Feb 16th or Mar 8th (noob day) with Longhorn Motorcycle School.....and i'll help you with your cornering abilities or lack thereof

ME TOO!!!! ME TOO!!!!



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Old 01-28-2008, 06:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly_737 View Post
take it to the track if you really want to work on corner speed. on the road is a bad idea.


That right there is excellent advice.
Think of it this way. Suppose you got really good at certain corner(s) and you figured out the brake mark and max speed that you could take it. then suppose that since the last time you went through it some dirt or sand got on the road. You would go down before you could say oh .
On the track it's the same corners over and over. You have the chance to develop the technique without the problems of unknown surface, obstacles or bread trucks.
Come to the track, people will help you get better, you will make new friends and wearing leather makes you feel badass!
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:51 PM   #9
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once you get on the track you will think that street riding is not that fun any more. well that is what happened to me. i was not criticizing you hope you did not take it the wrong way just hate to see something bad happen.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:52 PM   #10
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Don't brake until you see .........


But that's only for the track. On the streets, brake as neccessary to avoid jailtime.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
Typically if there is a turn sign with a posted speed I tend to double it for my entrance speed (30, I go 60 / 35 I go 70) etc.
Not a very smart rule for ones self.... all corners are different.... Are the turns Constant Radius, Increasing Radius, Decreasing Radius? Do they have Positive Camber, Off Camber?

Can you answer those questions truthfully?
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
I am attending the 03/08 track noob day for this very reason. But I am just trying to understand how others handle corners. I'm not looking to be going triple digits into a 30mph turn or anything. I'm just trying to be able to judge turns better.
here's how i handle a corner (most of the time)

i find a reference point to use....for example, soon as i see that tree over that hill....that's when i brake. soon as i pass that crack in the road, that's when i gradually let off the brakes and turn in.....soon as i see that 20mph sign and i'm going 90mph...that's when i get on the gas!!!!!

and if you find yourself having to gas before the apex of a turn....increase some speed....go past the tree over the hill just for a split second before you brake.....and use the other reference points still....you should be coming in just a hair faster.....and keep taking baby steps until you find the sweet spot. and remember to find new reference points now that you've changed them.

all those were only examples. but still, i must stress, don't go practicing on the street if you don't know what you are doing. and even if you did know what you were doing, i still wouldn't suggest so. take it easy out there. see you at MSRH!
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofpain View Post
use reference points....and it'll help you become faster. try reading keith code's book "twist of the wrist".....and you'll understand riding much better.

rolling on throttle depends whenever it's necessary really. the sooner you can get on the throttle, the better.

of course, i would not be trying my luck and learn cornering skills on the street. learn on the track, and you'll thank yourself later. you don't wanna be the roadkill that someone else is trying to avoid.

sign up for the MSRH trackday on Feb 16th or Mar 8th (noob day) with Longhorn Motorcycle School.....and i'll help you with your cornering abilities or lack thereof
I will have to check that book out, I've heard it mentioned in several other posts. I'm not out on the street trying to break records, just looking to get more opinions on the subject so that when I am out on a 3-4 hours ride I can try adjusting some things.

I'm looking forward to the trackday but I'm a little leary about other riders on the track who may be faster than I am wanting to make a pass at the wrong time. I've read numerous posts here about this sort of thing happening. I'm hoping the noob day is easy enough for a beginner such as my self to avoid those faster riders who want to touch their elbows to the ground.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:57 PM   #14
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if you ride you line on the track an stick to it the faster guys will pass you and everything will be fine it is when people change there line in the middle of a turn is when bad thing happen.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarosean View Post
Not a very smart rule for ones self.... all corners are different.... Are the turns Constant Radius, Increasing Radius, Decreasing Radius? Do they have Positive Camber, Off Camber?

Can you answer those questions truthfully?
very good point here as well.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:58 PM   #16
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beside all the instructors at msrh are great and the will help you with anything that you need all you have to do is ask.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:59 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
I will have to check that book out, I've heard it mentioned in several other posts. I'm not out on the street trying to break records, just looking to get more opinions on the subject so that when I am out on a 3-4 hours ride I can try adjusting some things.

I'm looking forward to the trackday but I'm a little leary about other riders on the track who may be faster than I am wanting to make a pass at the wrong time. I've read numerous posts here about this sort of thing happening. I'm hoping the noob day is easy enough for a beginner such as my self to avoid those faster riders who want to touch their elbows to the ground.
dont worry, this is a noob day. you're not gonna see any elbow draggers trying to run you off.

all you gotta do is stay focused on your ride....and don't let anything else break that focus. you'll have a blast.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_LS_Hatch View Post
You shouldn't be braking as late as possible anyways on the street. I'd rather be slow in/fast out. At least you leave a bigger margin should something be in the road.

Buuuut, if it's the same corner you usually take over and over, bring it up around 5mph each time.
I don't brake late as possible. Depending on the turn speed I am usually settled well before the turn comes up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarosean View Post
Not a very smart rule for ones self.... all corners are different.... Are the turns Constant Radius, Increasing Radius, Decreasing Radius? Do they have Positive Camber, Off Camber?

Can you answer those questions truthfully?
Exactly - this is the main reason I think I slow down to much to begin with. I'm not sure what kind of turn it might be, especially blind corners. I see some people take corners as if they don't care what kind of turn is. I do find myself being able to corner better/faster in turns that I am more familiar with.

I also understand the track logic, being able to see the same turns over and over. That's why I am interested in going to the track. But I can't goto the track every week, I'm not really into racing just want to ride better.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
I will have to check that book out, I've heard it mentioned in several other posts. I'm not out on the street trying to break records, just looking to get more opinions on the subject so that when I am out on a 3-4 hours ride I can try adjusting some things.

I'm looking forward to the trackday but I'm a little leary about other riders on the track who may be faster than I am wanting to make a pass at the wrong time. I've read numerous posts here about this sort of thing happening. I'm hoping the noob day is easy enough for a beginner such as my self to avoid those faster riders who want to touch their elbows to the ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Beasley View Post
NOOB days are devoted to novice track riders and first time attendees. Faster riders may be asked to attend a regular day.


If you are asked to return on a more pace appropriate day, you will recieve credit for the remainder of your day.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:11 PM   #20
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For more corner speed as larry says "close your eyes and pin it"
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