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Old 01-25-2008, 10:07 AM   #21
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Custom mapping can be up to a few hundred $$ for a full tune with a few pulls; sometimes less, sometimes more. It all depends on what you want and the person doing the mapping.

I would avoid the places that say "hey, we can map that thing for $50!"... you'll get what you pay for.

How do you know you're running rich?
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:08 AM   #22
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:09 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Custom mapping can be up to $500 for a full tune with a few pulls; sometimes less, sometimes more. It all depends on what you want and the person doing the mapping.

I would avoid the places that say "hey, we can map that thing for $50!"... you'll get what you pay for.

How do you know you're running rich?
Smells really rich, and when I rev it up it shoots a little smoke out like it is running rich.
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:11 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by abelrob View Post
Smells really rich, and when I rev it up it shoots a little smoke out like it is running rich.
Pull a spark plug and see if it's black. How does the bike run?
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:21 AM   #25
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www.johnnycheese.com

Johnny is THE tuner....he tunes for speed/mph, not just dyno numbers. He will extract the absolute max out of your setup. He is the only tuner I use(I have never used Andy or Patrick but just about everyone else until I started tuning my own bikes)

Johnny has a DJ250i with load control, he will use the brake to build your map, and he lets you try anything you want to experiment..... He gets $250 for a map job and its fully worth it. Only thing that sucks is he is in Round Rock....about 3hrs away....No biggie. You will see big gains at lower throttle %s and midrange....On my 1k, he gained 15hp/15tq in some areas around 4-5k and 20-40% throttle.....

Only way to go....
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:23 AM   #26
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Pull a spark plug and see if it's black. How does the bike run?
The bike runs ok to me, but I really dont have anything to compare it to. Ive been meaning to pull a plug, but I dont like doing anything in the cold.
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:26 AM   #27
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double post somehow...
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:26 AM   #28
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BTW revving your bike in neutral tells you nothing....they all smoke some when free revving because there is no load on the motor for one thing, the other thing is that your ECM is in the "neutral map" when in neutral or the clutch is pulled in, therefore fueling changes will make no difference in neutral(except at idle).

Even reading spark plugs is not a real good indicator.....your bike could be rich at idle and lean at full throttle yet your plugs will be black from fuel fowl. Only time plug reading works is if you are running a brand new set of plugs, make a full throttle run, shut the bike off and immediately pull a plug. Any idle time can change the "reading".

Odds are, your bike is rich everywhere.....they are all pretty rich from the factory, a lot of maps actually lean out the stock maps to gain HP on the dyno, yet you lose mph at the strip.....

Just get a custom map and be done with it. If your bike is stock or has just a slip on, save your money as you don't need a PCIII or tuning, bolt on parts don't make as much difference in AFR as people think....
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:27 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXALAN View Post
www.johnnycheese.com

Johnny is THE tuner....he tunes for speed/mph, not just dyno numbers. He will extract the absolute max out of your setup. He is the only tuner I use(I have never used Andy or Patrick but just about everyone else until I started tuning my own bikes)

Johnny has a DJ250i with load control, he will use the brake to build your map, and he lets you try anything you want to experiment..... He gets $250 for a map job and its fully worth it. Only thing that sucks is he is in Round Rock....about 3hrs away....No biggie. You will see big gains at lower throttle %s and midrange....On my 1k, he gained 15hp/15tq in some areas around 4-5k and 20-40% throttle.....

Only way to go....
Sweet! Johnny moved to Houston? [/sarcasm] (dude was asking for someone in Houston)

BTW, Andy does the same thing (load control, let's you "experiment", etc).

While there's no doubt that Johnny Cheese is a really good tuner, and has been doing it for a long time, Andy will definitely do as good of a job.

Maybe you should give him a visit ZXAlan and see what the local boys can do...
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:31 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXALAN View Post
www.johnnycheese.com

Johnny is THE tuner....Only way to go....
Nothing would make me happier to go to him but I have a tiburon and a C230... no truck. I thought of just making a quick ride down but weather doesn't permit and I don't like going over 40 minutes in the rain
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:31 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXALAN View Post

Even reading spark plugs is not a real good indicator.....your bike could be rich at idle and lean at full throttle yet your plugs will be black from fuel fowl. Only time plug reading works is if you are running a brand new set of plugs, make a full throttle run, shut the bike off and immediately pull a plug. Any idle time can change the "reading".
I suggested "reading" the plugs because if it really was that "rich", it would show on the plugs as caked black. While new plugs are the best way to "read" a plug (I come from the old school where we tuned our bikes with jetting and such AT the track in the pits...), if his bike was not running well and the plugs were caked, he may be right and it is too rich. However, I'm with you in the opinion that there is nothing too wrong (or wrong at all) with his AF.


Quote:
Just get a custom map and be done with it. If your bike is stock or has just a slip on, save your money as you don't need a PCIII or tuning, bolt on parts don't make as much difference in AFR as people think....
He's already got a PCIII.
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:33 AM   #32
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alan

Here is my OLD SCHOOL, STOCK 01 1000 with a full akro race system and a custom tune from Cheese.....Notice how rich it is down low, yet it gained HP and TQ.....Give the bike what it wants, not what you think it wants.... Don't just tune off of AFR.... This is strong EVERYWHERE in the powerband..... 20/40/60% throttle ranges all gained a ton of power. Peak HP didn't change but 1-2hp because my AFR with the factory tune was so rich, the full system leaned it out right to 12.8-1 afr which is pretty much where you want it....its under the curve where you will see the gains.
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:33 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXALAN View Post
BTW revving your bike in neutral tells you nothing....they all smoke some when free revving because there is no load on the motor for one thing, the other thing is that your ECM is in the "neutral map" when in neutral or the clutch is pulled in, therefore fueling changes will make no difference in neutral(except at idle).

Even reading spark plugs is not a real good indicator.....your bike could be rich at idle and lean at full throttle yet your plugs will be black from fuel fowl. Only time plug reading works is if you are running a brand new set of plugs, make a full throttle run, shut the bike off and immediately pull a plug. Any idle time can change the "reading".

Odds are, your bike is rich everywhere.....they are all pretty rich from the factory, a lot of maps actually lean out the stock maps to gain HP on the dyno, yet you lose mph at the strip.....

Just get a custom map and be done with it. If your bike is stock or has just a slip on, save your money as you don't need a PCIII or tuning, bolt on parts don't make as much difference in AFR as people think....
Thanks, thats great info. My bike came the way it is. Full Arata Titanium exhaust, K&N, and PCIII.
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:34 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Caligonetx View Post
Nothing would make me happier to go to him but I have a tiburon and a C230... no truck. I thought of just making a quick ride down but weather doesn't permit and I don't like going over 40 minutes in the rain
Dude, no need. Andy is right down the road.

While JC has a great reputation and probably has been doing it longer than most, you won't be disappointed with Andy.

I don't get anything for recommending him, I just have had him do a lot of work and have seen really positive results, have had hundreds of others around here.
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:36 AM   #35
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Nothing would make me happier to go to him but I have a tiburon and a C230... no truck. I thought of just making a quick ride down but weather doesn't permit and I don't like going over 40 minutes in the rain
Maybe we can squeeze both of our bikes in my truck or on my trailer and make a short trip one weekend.
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:36 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Dude, no need. Andy is right down the road.
Where is he located?
Price?
Availability and time takes?

I'm up for it Saturday if he can accomidate... JC some day...
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:37 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
I suggested "reading" the plugs because if it really was that "rich", it would show on the plugs as caked black. While new plugs are the best way to "read" a plug (I come from the old school where we tuned our bikes with jetting and such AT the track in the pits...), if his bike was not running well and the plugs were caked, he may be right and it is too rich. However, I'm with you in the opinion that there is nothing too wrong (or wrong at all) with his AF.


He's already got a PCIII.

True true....I tune from the old school to.....Keep adding fuel until the mph drops, then back off a size or two....LOL I do the same thing with nitrous.... Reading plugs does work, especially to indicate oil consumption etc but.......if its really rich and its black fouling plugs, then yes....he needs a tune...LOL or his air filter is covered up...
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:38 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abelrob View Post
Maybe we can squeeze both of our bikes in my truck or on my trailer and make a short trip one weekend.
Whatcha doing this weekend?

Today, possibly jumping in w some other riders to see 'meet the spartans' and also crashing a car show on i45/2920 sixshooter meantioned.

Then Sunday i'm torn between Baytown races and forrest ride...
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:40 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligonetx View Post
Where is he located?
Price?
Availability and time takes?

I'm up for it Saturday if he can accomidate... JC some day...
Johnny only tunes on saturdays, call him a couple weeks in advance, tell him you want to bring two bikes, he can do both in one day....then both of you guys could trailer/truck them up there. I have made more 1 day trips to the Cheese cave and back then I can remember.. Tell him I sent you, maybe he will knock off a couple bucks.
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:40 AM   #40
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LOL or his air filter is covered up...
Thought the same thing about the filter, and pulled it. The thing looked brand new.
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