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View Poll Results: which one are you?
i use reference points and it works for me 17 65.38%
too much thinking comes with reference points, and i'm still fast 9 34.62%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-10-2008, 12:32 PM   #21
jodyhudson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasyankee View Post
I took the two day California Superbike School (www.superbikeschool.com) back in November. Both in his books and in the school, Keith Code stresses reference points and I found I got faster as I got more of them. I imagine that the fast guys who think they don't use reference points use them subconsiously.
Nope. not this guy
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Old 01-10-2008, 12:35 PM   #22
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Most of us need to use reference points to force ourselves to brake later and get faster.
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Old 01-10-2008, 04:11 PM   #23
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I use 'em.Helped me quite a bit,especially when I just started.I would go watch expert practice & try to apply what most of the experts were doing.
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Old 01-10-2008, 04:13 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofpain View Post
i for one, WAS using reference points......
i noticed myself not using reference points as much
So, at one time you were actively looking down the track, visually scanning ahead for your reference points.....

And now? What are the visual cues that you are using now?
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Old 01-10-2008, 04:14 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
I used to use reference points for braking and tried to wait a little longer before braking as lap times came down. But, I've decided that, since I will never race, lap times don't matter.
I use the apex as a reference for turning and brake when I get scared. That's riding at my limit, when I scare myself I slow down just a hair and keep the excitement at that level. Goodenuf!
i'M WITH YA ON THAT ONE.....PUSH THE ENVELOPE, just not so much that you taste the pavement
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Old 01-10-2008, 04:31 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie H. View Post
So, at one time you were actively looking down the track, visually scanning ahead for your reference points.....

And now? What are the visual cues that you are using now?
maybe i'm still using the reference points subconsciously (sp?) and braking, turning in, exiting has become second nature....that i don't really pay attention to the reference points on the track anymore. :dontknow:
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Old 01-10-2008, 07:01 PM   #27
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The analogy that I give to LSTD students is this:

The speed at which you can run through a forest at night is determined by two things: 1) how well your light illuminates the path ahead of you and 2) how fast you can run.

Your vision is the flashlight. The motorcycle relates to how fast you can run.

I'll ask again, what are you doing visually?
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Old 01-10-2008, 07:32 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody View Post
My take, RPs are key when learning a track. As you are learning you then build a rhythm that most of us are running on. This is also a limitation but, I think most of us use them with out really thinking about them. Especially when you are trying to brake later and later. IMHO
I agree
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:06 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofpain View Post
i was talking to jason (riddler) last night and got to thinking.....who uses reference points....and who just gets out there and rides?

i for one, WAS using reference points......and was progressing very well. after the confidence and speed started coming up, i noticed myself not using reference points as much.....and noticed lap times slowing down.
huh???....
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:48 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodyhudson View Post
does anybody on this messageboard ride any other track besides MSRH ? thats all i ever hear about ...
I'll admit it Jody, I'm not one for long drives when I have a track that still challenges me 40 minutes from home. Running it backwards is almost like starting all over again. Now that GSS is open, ten minutes away, I have even less reason to travel.
I did go to TWS (Texas World Speedway) once. It was neat to go to a different track but I didn't enjoy it as much.
I think I'm spoiled. In Hawaii the track was ten minutes from home. Here I have two within 40 minutes. I think if I had always had to drive hours to go to a track then I wouldn't think twice about going to TWS (Texas World Speedway) or even Cresson.

I'll hit a fourth track before I leave Texas. I want to try and stick around long enough for the June track day at Oak Hill. I may schedule things so I hit it on my last weekend here.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:53 PM   #31
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As far as braking points go.
Now that I'm running a motard my braking point is generally right after I go past the guy who went flying by me on the straight but hit the brakes earlier than i need to so I'm not stuck behind them in the corner.

Of course for the guy who are just plain fast it's not an issue, I never catch them anyway. It sure is fun to try though when you are on a 'tard!
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:54 PM   #32
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I am big on reference points, the problem is the tracks here have little reference markers, or braking markers, except Hallett...

In Europe and Asia, our braking markers are also meter markers... brake at 150m at certain turns and some turns you can push for late braking at 100..

But now, since I am paralyzed, I brake much earlier and don't push myself as I used to... oh well... ppl like Kawi Jim will pass ppl like me easily.. :P
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Old 01-11-2008, 12:37 AM   #33
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i dont use any because i dont get the whole apex and refrence points they "try" to explain to me when giving instruction. i suck at math and geometry.

what ronnieH said sounds good. i look ahead ALOT and just let my body do the leaning and take me where i need to go.
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Old 01-11-2008, 12:41 AM   #34
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When GIXXERBILL is in front of me my reference point is 10' in front of him - when MR WHOOPIE is behind me my reference point is when I think I'm going to crash + 10'
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Old 01-11-2008, 09:53 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar View Post
When GIXXERBILL is in front of me my reference point is 10' in front of him - when MR WHOOPIE is behind me my reference point is when I think I'm going to crash + 10'
That there's funny, I don't care who ya are...
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:30 AM   #36
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I use RPs but I guess I'm slow. Without having decent RPs I feel kinda lost on the track, tend to brake too soon or apex too early. Good reference points allow me think early enough to set up braking, gearing, acceleration, etc. and move on to next part of the track, looking as far forward as possible. When you start picking up speed, you might have to relook or rethink what you're using or how you're using them

I've only been to TWS (Texas World Speedway) speedway once, but have been to an assload of mid-atlantic tracks. Even Road Atlanta after the repave had characteristics that could be used for RPS (shaved track, landmarks, etc) that will help keep you looking down the track.
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