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Old 12-17-2007, 02:39 PM   #21
Patrick
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Quote:
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Not necessarily.

dasdas
Your example, while an admirable action, isn't really pertinent to this discussion, which is about personal defense with a handgun against someone who is similarly or less armed.
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Old 12-17-2007, 02:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Your example, while an admirable action, isn't really pertinent to this discussion, which is about personal defense with a handgun against someone who is similarly or less armed.

It's the first thing I could think of...

I guess the Gundy example would've been better.
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Old 12-17-2007, 02:47 PM   #23
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Do you have statistics to back this up or is this just a "feeling"?

According to the CDC website, which tracks ALL types of accidental deaths, accidental deaths by firearms for the year 2004, which is the most recent figures available, were .22 of the population. or 649 deaths out of 293,638,158 people.







Once again, do you have statistics to back this up?
There is study after study that PROVES that violent crime goes down when citizens are legally armed and goes up when they are disarmed.
One need not look any further than the issues Australia is currently having to prove that point.

I personally have protected my own life as well as the lives of my family on several occasions because I was armed. I know in at least 2 of those cases I would not be here if I was unarmed.







Once again, do you have anything to back up your claim?

Let's for an instant believe they're true, if there were no guns would these people still be dead?
Man has been killing man since the stronger one found he could kill the weaker one, whether it be with hands, rocks or a knife.

However a gun can make the odds more even.
A better question to ask, and no I don't have any data, is; How many lives are saved because of a legally armed citizen?

As far as your assertion that 90% of people are killed by people they know, would they be dead if there were no guns?







Really?

My father was a career soldier, I also spent 7 years in the Army.
I have many friends who are current or are former military.
MANY of us, myself included, have lost friends from a firearm, either in the service to our country or later in public life.

By far, the overwhelming majority of us STILL own guns, carry guns and have guns in the home, in direct contrast to what you assert.


You are welcome to your opinion, however I think mine is based more in reality and on fact.
im not big on facts i just throw stupid ideas out i told solracer and mods they are free 2 edit and delete whatever.. most of the time they are doing me a favor
and i just go by what i have seen and honestly sir i havent seen much ......
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Old 12-17-2007, 02:48 PM   #24
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Most of us would go with reason. No argument there.

The point is that not everyone shares the same belief system.
When that occurs and the other person chooses violence over reason, how do YOU intend to respond?

Also, IMO it wasn't just your percentage that was incorrect, but that's just my perspective.
i think if the other person chooses violence... i'm going to reason with them ..........................................ok, scratch that thought
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Old 12-17-2007, 02:57 PM   #25
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IMHO, this thread is weak. But I guess this is a simple justification on gun ownership and usage....:dontknow:

As long as we have hurtful people in this world, there will always be reason and force, especially when encountered with that hurtful person. One could go as far to say, that they would defend thier family or home or property before an intruder, but I guess it would have to be between you and the man, once you get up there.......

First and last post.....
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:20 PM   #26
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plz dont ask why i post theses things just putting a funny twist on things...


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Old 12-17-2007, 03:24 PM   #27
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like del last post im gana change some tires.......
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:28 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
IMHO, this thread is weak. But I guess this is a simple justification on gun ownership and usage....:dontknow:

As long as we have hurtful people in this world, there will always be reason and force, especially when encountered with that hurtful person. One could go as far to say, that they would defend thier family or home or property before an intruder, but I guess it would have to be between you and the man, once you get up there.......

First and last post.....

Another post that makes no sense!
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:29 PM   #29
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like del last post im gana change some tires.......
Well I appreciate your input, such as it is.
I'm off to the gym myself.
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:39 PM   #30
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OK here is my .02

I’ve never served military, I certainly respect those that did, as my father did. Two tours in Vietnam. He had the unfortunate task of ridding the many rivers of “Charlie” while aboard a Helo. Yes he was the guy on the M60. So I don’t have to explain what he had to do. He was a member of the NRA, as well as a CDL instructor. He taught me everything about guns and how/when to use them. Some of my fondest memories with my father involved our mutual love of guns.

All of this is to give you some background on where I’m coming from.

The point is ex-military do in fact still enjoy owning / shooting said weapons. He & I both believed in the right to bear arms, because it offers what no other civil right can, true freedom from force. You outlaw guns; you put ALL of the privileges & rights into the hands of the criminals and the politicians (not much distinction I know). If there were no guns, there would have been no American Revolution, no Civil War…nothing. We would still be a matriarchal, slave owning society, probably ran/ruled by the British. If you think taking guns away from people…any type of gun, is a realistic cure for crime take a look at New York City, guns are essentially outlawed. I believe it is the 2nd or 3rd most dangerous city in America.

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Old 12-17-2007, 03:40 PM   #31
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Quote:
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pll get killed by there own guns all the time .... and telling the world u carry one only endagers ur life and those around u ....... 90% of pll get killed by a person close 2 them or over money or that pretty girl u sneak out with... the chances of u getting killed by a strager are slim 2 none ... so pll putting up fights bout why they carry one just seems silly 2 me........ if i got one they will never know.. also anybody whos lost loved ones 2 a slug in the brain stays away from them ask a soldier ....

Ghandi
I cannot teach you violence, as I do not myself believe in it. I can only teach you not to bow your heads before any one even at the cost of your life.
Mahatma Gandhi
'murder' rates that you refer to encompase all... and while it is more common to be murdered by someone you know than not, the figures you come up with are off a bit. Nor does it address the breakdown/percentages of weapon etc used.
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:04 PM   #32
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Your original post was VERY well written. If you wrote that Patrick my hats off to you, again.
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:05 PM   #33
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Quote:
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'murder' rates that you refer to encompase all... and while it is more common to be murdered by someone you know than not, the figures you come up with are off a bit. Nor does it address the breakdown/percentages of weapon etc used.
true true ... i guess i just used random thoughst of things ive seen like i said i havent seen much... i just think that the gun talk is bubu... if u got one good for u if somebody pulls one on me and acts like he wants 2 do something go ahead just dont hit the spine and leave me there head shots only plz... but then again i do this all day...
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:08 PM   #34
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Quote:
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Another post that makes no sense!
del is loving person leave him alone bet if u need his help he will be there for u .......
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:09 PM   #35
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del is loving person leave him alone bet if u need his help he will be there for u .......
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:09 PM   #36
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alot of Motorcycles Unlimited sponsored riders on this one...



Last edited by Javi; 12-17-2007 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:10 PM   #37
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ha ha just jokin!!! hows hypertrophy doing he always speaks high of u...
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:47 PM   #38
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I am trying to figure out how someone(Gandhi) doesnt believe in violence.I mean if someone is kicking your ,what do you believe they are doing to you?
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:54 PM   #39
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you're joking right?

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I am trying to figure out how someone(Gandhi) doesnt believe in violence.I mean if someone is kicking your ,what do you believe they are doing to you?

...I believe what he is saying is that he doesn't advocate it, when he is quoted to have said that he doesn't believe in it. Not in the literal sense of the word "believe" lol
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:58 PM   #40
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Quote:
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I am trying to figure out how someone(Gandhi) doesnt believe in violence.I mean if someone is kicking your ,what do you believe they are doing to you?

He reasons that such an individual would be sating their inner need to inflict pain on others to attain some form of pleasure and, therefore, fundamenatlly he has not control over it. At least, that's how I would rationalize killing/torturing someone if I was ever confronted by justice.
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