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Old 12-12-2007, 12:42 AM   #1
Htownz
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Do you really HAVE TO lay it down?

OK I've been hearing different things from riders who I trust know what they are talking about. I've been riding for 2 months now, last time I rode was dirt bikes and little ninjas in junior high. Now that I'm just now getting into street riding, I get never-ending info on all kinds of stuff about riding from the simplest methods to hardcore physics involved with every square inch on bikes. I've been told from very knowledgeable (at least I see them that way with their experience and years) that I'm "going to wreck my first bike" or did you "lay it down yet". And then I've been told that it "happens to everyone". Is this inevitable or what? I'm trying to ride with a clear conscience but this thought lingers in the back of my mind and I feel at times that it's eminent. So what's the deal? Is it healthy to anticipate bustin your a$$ cause this trips me out the more I dwell on this...
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:44 AM   #2
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it took me a year and a half to wreck my first street bike... but i wrecked a few in between that time, just not my first one. LOL.

might i add i was wheelieing or riding WAY to fast ont he streets everytime i wrecked.


if you ride normal you should never wreck
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:47 AM   #3
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most accidents are rider error. ride with your head, not with your right wrist, and youll do just fine. tell those guys to off with that stuff, lol.
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:50 AM   #4
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Interesting question. To quote my very wise father who has ridden for 50 years: "there are two types of motorcycle riders, those who have gone down and those that are about to". I've ridden for twenty years on a variety of bikes including a 'Busa, v-maxs, zx-11s and just recently a gixxer 1000. I've not gone down, but I've had ample opportunities. People on the street just don't pay enough attention to riders. That and the high hp bikes encourage high speeds, wheelies and other adrenaline inducing activities.

So what do I do? With the new bike, I'm riding predominately on the track. On the street I assume the worst from virtually every car I encounter. That and always wearing your gear is about the best I think one can do.
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:51 AM   #5
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Take you time and learn your surroundings. Go out on a clear road and see what the different imputs do to the bike.Practice emergency stops... All the stuff they cover in the safety courses. The thing is you got to practice them. Your eyes are your frriend. After seeing the stupid things that happen in traffic you will acquire a sixth sense of what motorist are going to do. But most importantly trust your gut and Have FUN!
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:52 AM   #6
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Simple solution just sell that bike and buy a second one this way you clear this problem. Don't let people tell you that since its your first bike you "are" going to lay it down. It might happen on your first your second or third the best thing you can do is just wear your gear, because its not if you fall its what you are wearing when you do. Just ride safe, don't try to outride your abilities, and keep an scanning your surroundings for potential dangers and you should be okay.
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:53 AM   #7
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Quote:
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Take you time and learn your surroundings. Go out on a clear road and see what the different imputs do to the bike.Practice emergency stops... All the stuff they cover in the safety courses. The thing is you got to practice them. Your eyes are your frriend. After seeing the stupid things that happen in traffic you will acquire a sixth sense of what motorist are going to do. But most importantly trust your gut and Have FUN!
fo sho. and youll also find your much more attentive even in your cage. i noticed that when i first started riding. things stand out MUCH more than they ever did before.
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:54 AM   #8
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Oh yeah.... learn how to use the front brake. The rear brake is just a freakin decoration
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:55 AM   #9
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Oh yeah.... learn how to use the front brake. The rear brake is just a freakin decoration
its actually much more effective than you give it credit for. im always using both, never just the front.
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
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Oh yeah.... learn how to use the front brake. The rear brake is just a freakin decoration
On the track at our level. One the street different story.
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Oh yeah.... learn how to use the front brake. The rear brake is just for freakin wheelies

fixed
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
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On the track at our level. One the street different story.
i use the rear on the track and not on the street...

(smr's and wheelies excluded)
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:00 AM   #13
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Good stuff on the rear brake. I found it to be more of a hazard at times. And that is true, when I get in my car, I think to myself how in world do people get into accidents.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:00 AM   #14
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The rear brake is useful in slippery conditions like when a big dumbass (that would be me), runs off track into the field. Rear brake is only something like 20% of the braking power of the front and is much more prone to lockup due to weight transfer... right
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
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The rear brake is useful in slippery conditions like when a big dumbass (that would be me), runs off track into the field. Rear brake is only something like 20% of the braking power of the front and is much more prone to lockup due to weight transfer... right
youre absolutely right about the weight transfer. but on streetriding, the rear/front combo is a must. try it sometime.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Good stuff on the rear brake. I found it to be more of a hazard at times.
learn the feel of it. i locked it up the first time i used it at low speed, for about six inches or so. after that, i knew where the threshold was and it never happened again.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:04 AM   #17
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I was just telling Patrick and Allan today that I'd like to learn to use the rear brake on track to slide/rotate the bike like Larry does on his motard. That looks so damned cool.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:05 AM   #18
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Quote:
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I was just telling Patrick and Allan today that I'd like to learn to use the rear brake on track to slide/rotate the bike like Larry does on his motard. That looks so damned cool.

haha you go boy! drifting is a whoooooooole nutha game tho!
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
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i use the rear on the track and not on the street...

(smr's excluded)
I used to use it on the track as well But not anymore until I get faster. It seems to slow the rest of my inputs down and the engine breaking(esp on a twin) is plenty.

Instructors and fast guys alike have followed me to give me pointers and asked if I was using the rear brake and I said yes. They asked why? my answer: IDK I thought it would increase my stopping power and make the bike more stable. They agreed but said not at the speed I'm running and that instead it was slowing me down since my feet were not position properly etc....

When I need to start using the rear brake I will until then fudge it!

Note: I'm a slow guy but not super super slow just slow.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:05 AM   #20
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braking 101


1. Which brake is the most effective?

The front brake is the most effective, giving between 60 & 80% of the bike's stopping power in hard stops, depending upon surface conditions. This is because most of the weight of the bike and rider transfers forward onto the front wheel when the brakes are applied. A common example of weight transfer is when you trip on a gutter - your feet stop but momentum keeps the top of you going and you fall flat on your face. The weight transfer that takes place under braking on a motorcycle pushes the front wheel onto the ground and makes it grip very well.

2. Is the front wheel likely to skid if you apply the front brake hard?

No. The front wheel is likely to skid uncontrollably and bring you down only if you jam the front brake on hard. If you apply the front brake in a staged (progressive) process, the front wheel may skid but that skid is normally quite controllable.

3. Is the rear wheel likely to skid if you apply the brakes hard?

With most of the weight being on the front wheel, the rear wheel tends to be light under braking and will therefore lock up and skid very easily.

4. How do you control a rear wheel skid?

Control of a rear wheel skid is easy. Just keep your eyes up to the horizon and look where you WANT to go (not necessarily where you are actually going) and the bike will skid in a controllable manner with a minimum of fishtailing. Basic and advanced braking techniques are best learnt under controlled conditions rather than when a truck pulls out on you! Your local motorcycle school will run a fun braking exercise session for you and some mates if you care to call the school and arrange it.

5. Is braking a natural skill?

Braking, as with any riding skill, is a learned skill, not a natural one. This means you must practice the correct braking skills enough to make them an instinctive reaction before you can be sure that you will do the right things in an emergency. Overseas research has shown that, because of panic overpowering the rider's conscious reactions, nearly a third of all riders do absolutely nothing in an accident situation: they don't even apply the brakes!

If, however, your high level braking skills are so well learnt that they are instinctive, you will do it right, no matter what the situation. However, this requires you to do a lot of high level braking skill practice, the skills will not come with normal everyday riding.

6. Is there a special braking technique that ensures that a rider will get the best out of a motorcycle's brakes?

Yes. The process is called STAGED BRAKING and it involves the rider applying the motorcycle's brakes in a staged process. This gives the rider predictable, progressive braking.

7. In an emergency do we concentrate on using staged braking on both front and back brakes?

This is a controversial subject. Some experienced riders reckon that, even in an emergency when research has shown that panic tends to decrease your riding skills, they can apply the back brake perfectly with no loss of braking on the front. Well, research has shown that the average rider can only properly concentrate on the use of one brake in an emergency so, unless you think you're road motorcycling's equivalent of a top motorcycle racer, we would suggest that you concentrate on getting the best out
of one brake. Of the front and rear brake on a motorcycle, the one to concentrate on in an emergency is the front brake because if you get that one wrong, lock it up and don't correct that problem then you're going to crash..

According to the American Motorcycle Safety Foundation, if you try to get the best out of both brakes in an emergency, you will get the best out of neither. The MSF says you can't concentrate FULLY on both brakes at one time. You know your mother's old nag, "You can't concentrate on two things at one time"!

So, to get the best braking, you have to concentrate using either the front or the back brake and, since the front brake gives up to 80% of your braking power and incorrect application is likely to make you fall off, it makes sense to concentrate on the front brake.

The American Motorcycle Safety Foundation teaches their instructors that "in an emergency braking situation you should apply the back brake hard and let the back wheel slide if it wants to. This way you can concentrate on what is happening up front; there's enough to think about in the use of the front brake."

8. So how should I apply the rear brake?

Apply it and forget about it. Let the back wheel skid if necessary. Concentrate on using staged braking to harness the superior power of the front brake to save your life.

9. Is Staged Braking difficult to learn?

Given practice, the skill is not difficult to learn. The best way to learn it is to start off with a four stage application of the front brake. Later you can increase the number of stages to make your braking more and more progressive, if you want to.
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