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View Poll Results: Can race be determined at the biological level?
Yes 24 57.14%
No 5 11.90%
eR? Whut chu talkin' bout Willis...? 13 30.95%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-11-2007, 04:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p0opstlnksal0t View Post
thus being a mutation at a cellular level, one cannot have change without cellular mutation. in essence a change at a biological level. I vote yes
Right, but mutations don't occur specific to race, they occur due to stimuli introduced at any given time. These stimuli effect how, to whom, and why these mutations occur.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
Lol, so what about the Caucasian or Black male who happens to be Lactose intolerant? Does such an occurrence essentially make him Asian? By the logic presented, he is/would be...
Nope.

It took around 10K years for people to become Lactose tolerant (almost 96% of Swedes are Lactose tolerant). In the past 1000 years or so we've all pretty much mingled with each other (Asian, Euro, African, etc). Those Lactose tolerant/intolerant genes are bound to get passed around.

(the article addresses this question )
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:27 PM   #23
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yeah.. i believe there are "biologically verifiable differences in the various races".

As much as i want to believe all men are created equal, i feel that's bullshit. You ever notice that the NBA is majority black players? Coincidence or maybe adaptation/evolution played a roll in making ppl of African decent(American blacks included) taller, faster, stronger, etc. I'm not saying black ppl will always be the tallest, fastest, etc. but when i look at my race(vietnamese) in comparison, i dont see many viet play professional basketball.

There are soo many categories we can compare races in but i just used the physical/athletic category cause its a more simple one that most can understand, since this is a pretty in dept topic.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:28 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p0opstlnksal0t View Post
you have answered your own post. yes there are differences at a biological level between various races, no matter which way you look at it.
No the question wasn't whether there are biological differences in races. The question was: Is race a valid taxonomic construct? Can race be biologically discernable, meaning, if you were to look at a few strands of DNA, can you determine a given individual's race/ethnicity?
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denhou1974 View Post
Nope.

It took around 10K years for people to become Lactose tolerant (almost 96% of Swedes are Lactose tolerant). In the past 1000 years or so we've all pretty much mingled with each other (Asian, Euro, African, etc). Those Lactose tolerant/intolerant genes are bound to get passed around.

(the article addresses this question )
This acts to supplement my argument...
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:30 PM   #26
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:31 PM   #27
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:32 PM   #28
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maybe in america since its a clutural melting pot but i still think races around the world are still biological discernable
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:33 PM   #29
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Native Americans have different shaped femurs and according to Nike, wider feet.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi...ournalCode=jfo

Quote:
Femur subtrochanteric size and shape can be used to differentiate between adult Native Americans and American Blacks and Whites, but little is known about when shape differences are established during growth and development. Ontological changes in subtrochanteric shape were examined using 74 Native American and 61 American Black/White subadult femora. At birth, the proximal femur diaphysis is relatively circular in both groups. Between birth and 5 years, the diaphysis becomes more mediolaterally broad, especially in Native Americans, due to differential growth between the mediolateral and anteroposterior planes. This change may be due to biomechanical stresses associated with developing a mature gait pattern. After the age of 5, growth occurs more equally in the two planes and shape does not change significantly. The adult shape of the proximal femur is established by c. 5 years of age and can be used to discriminate between Native American and American Black/White femora in older subadults.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:33 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
Right, but mutations don't occur specific to race, they occur due to stimuli introduced at any given time. These stimuli effect how, to whom, and why these mutations occur.
exactly, so a certain race would have discernable variation when matched to another race. this is caused by many outside factors. these different mutations over past millennia have carved out the differences we see between different races. this is an ongoing event as human beings adapt/change to their surroundings. in a couple thousand years we will prolly have totally different races seeing as humans are inter-racially breeding now that we have intertwined moreso than ever before.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:37 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
but mutations don't occur specific to race, they occur due to stimuli introduced at any given time.
these stimuli that occur to create mutation are introduced via ones surroundings, which over the last 100,000 years or so, have been different based on locality.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:38 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooBuku View Post
yeah.. i believe there are "biologically verifiable differences in the various races".

As much as i want to believe all men are created equal, i feel that's bullshit. You ever notice that the NBA is majority black players? Coincidence or maybe adaptation/evolution played a roll in making ppl of African decent(American blacks included) taller, faster, stronger, etc. I'm not saying black ppl will always be the tallest, fastest, etc. but when i look at my race(vietnamese) in comparison, i dont see many viet play professional basketball.

There are soo many categories we can compare races in but i just used the physical/athletic category cause its a more simple one that most can understand, since this is a pretty in dept topic.
I have a theory on this:

Evolution is based on adaptation. Those organisms capable of reproducing dictate the future molecular material or gene pool for the future populous. When blacks were brought to America initially, they worked in the elements out on the farms and plantations correct? Hence, their athletic and muscular builds. Weaker individuals died or were otherwise discarded in both the trip here and during the lengthy indoctrination period. Blacks were required to have bodies capable of with standing the brutal elements as well as be capable of lifting heavy items for lengthy periods of time, athletes. Those individuals most advantageously built for the latter, survived, thus creating a specific set or genetic pool.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:39 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
No the question wasn't whether there are biological differences in races. The question was: Is race a valid taxonomic construct? Can race be biologically discernable, meaning, if you were to look at a few strands of DNA, can you determine a given individual's race/ethnicity?
not yet, but we will be as soon as the mapped dna model we have is broken down to show identifiable traits. we just havnt gotten that far yet.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:39 PM   #34
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There is no such thing as 'races'.

There is only one race and it is the human race. Studies have shown that there is no sufficient evidence nor difference in the different cultures of humans to group them into their own sub races.

Anthropologically races is an absolut incorrect word.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:39 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornet View Post
o and p.s.-why dont we just ask quanell X? he seems to know everything? or maybe al gore? i mean that genius invented the internet and found global warming!
Because they will provide BOOLSHYT answers...coulda really went without thsi retarded entry to be honest...
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:40 PM   #36
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Well, obviously there are biological differences between sexes and races - otherwise there wouldn't even have been this debate in the first place.

But I see what you're getting at.

I have read quite a bit recently about science's ability to map DNA markers that identify the people's ancestry and race. I think there's no question that at the genetic level there is a difference between races - observed easily in the marked physical traits that are exclusive to the different races as well as in the more difficult to discern internal characteristics such as propensity toward various diseases.

for example:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Times
But new research is exploring the remaining fraction to explain differences between people of different continental origins.

Scientists, for instance, have recently identified small changes in DNA that account for the pale skin of Europeans, the tendency of Asians to sweat less and West Africansí resistance to certain diseases.

At the same time, genetic information is slipping out of the laboratory and into everyday life, carrying with it the inescapable message that people of different races have different DNA. Ancestry tests tell customers what percentage of their genes are from Asia, Europe, Africa and the Americas. The heart-disease drug BiDil is marketed exclusively to African-Americans, who seem genetically predisposed to respond to it. Jews are offered prenatal tests for genetic disorders rarely found in other ethnic groups.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/11/us/11dna.html


And another report about estimating ethnic affiliation through the use of DNA

Quote:
M D Shriver, M W Smith, L Jin, A Marcini, J M Akey, R Deka, and R E Ferrell
Department of Human Genetics, University of Pittsburgh

During the past 10 years, DNA analysis has revolutionized the determination of identity in a forensic context. Statements about the biological identity of two human DNA samples now can be made with complete confidence. Although DNA markers are very powerful for distinguishing among individuals, most offer little power to distinguish ethnicity or to support any statement about the physical characteristics of an individual. Through a search of the literature and of unpublished data on allele frequencies we have identified a panel of population-specific genetic markers that enable robust ethnic-affiliation estimation for major U.S. resident populations. In this report, we identify these loci and present their levels of allele-frequency differential between ethnically defined samples, and we demonstrate, using log-likelihood analysis, that this panel of markers provides significant statistical power for ethnic-affiliation estimation. In addition to their use in forensic ethnic-affiliation estimation, population-specific genetic markers are very useful in both population- and individual-level admixture estimation and in mapping genes by use of the linkage disequilibrium created when populations hybridize.
Above is the abstract, at this link can be found the full document:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1712479


And if you're interested in reading up, PubMed Central has 379 free articles that deal with DNA and ethno-ancestral mapping

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...s%20for%20race
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:40 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
This acts to supplement my argument...
Not sure about that. We've mingled, but 1000 years isn't enough time to undo 70K years of evolution - roughly the time when people migrated out of Africa and went their own ways.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:41 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornet View Post
yes-if you have the propper benchmarks already-otherwise you don't know the flag or "marker" that youre looking for.
This however was something along the lines of what I was looking for...being that they've mapped the entire genome, why is it that they've not yet established such markers?
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:42 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
Because they will provide BOOLSHYT answers...coulda really went without thsi retarded entry to be honest...
i agree
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:43 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
This however was something along the lines of what I was looking for...being that they've mapped the entire genome, why is it that they've not yet established such markers?
were talking about an incredible whelp of information here. something supercomputers have been working on for the last 10 years. now that it has been mapped we need to actually discern what we are looking at.
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