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View Poll Results: Can race be determined at the biological level?
Yes 24 57.14%
No 5 11.90%
eR? Whut chu talkin' bout Willis...? 13 30.95%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-11-2007, 03:39 PM   #1
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Race. Biologically discernable?

Ok, so I've run across an article from 1992 by a J. Phillipe Rushton, who was at the time, a psychologist at the University of Western Ontario. It is a study which suggests that 1) there are biologically verifiable differences in the various races and 2) there are biologically verifiable differences in intelligence between men and women. I personally disagree, but am curious what some of you on here may think. I must add that this study has since been determined to have been both false and having been corroborated by corrupt and unscientific data...

So I pose the question:
Is Race a valid taxonomic construct? What evidence can you provide to supplement your assertion?

Laymen's:
Can race be determined at the biological level?

For the record: You will be dismissed as a moron if you fail to provide scientific backing for what you suggest...

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Last edited by CaJuNsOuLjA; 12-11-2007 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:43 PM   #2
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The answer is 42.
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:44 PM   #3
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I plead ignorance, but pose this question. If there aren't any biological differences, then why are some races more prone to conditions like heart attacks and strokes over other races? I ask because I just had a safety meeting covering the effects of stroke, and what causes them. Race ( along with , age, and weight ) played a factor.


Britt
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:45 PM   #4
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I think it can be determined now with DNA with markers that point to hair type, skin pigmentation etc. But if it was just fossil bone a bazillion years from now, I don't know. I wouldn't think so. :dontknow:
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denhou1974 View Post
The answer is 42.
LMAO
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:49 PM   #6
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxBritt04R6 View Post
I plead ignorance, but pose this question. If there aren't any biological differences, then why are some races more prone to conditions like heart attacks and strokes over other races? I ask because I just had a safety meeting covering the effects of stroke, and what causes them. Race ( along with , age, and weight ) played a factor.


Britt
Nope. There are usually sociological factors which contribute more heavily to mortality rates than race. Sociological frequencies seen in select groups or races determine those things. For instance, Blacks here in America have been known to have high cholesterol and other cardiovascular type diseases. A sociological item which can be credited to this occurrence is the fact that Blacks diets typically contain more sodium and high poly-saturated fats. The same however cannot be said of African's. I don't think they suffer from cardiovascular diseases the like's of Blacks here in the US.
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
Nope. There are usually sociological factors which contribute more heavily to mortality rates than race. Sociological frequencies seen in select groups or races determine those things. For instance, Blacks here in America have been known to have high cholesterol and other cardiovascular type diseases. A sociological item which can be credited to this occurrence is the fact that Blacks diets typically contain more sodium and high poly-saturated fats. The same however cannot be said of African's. I don't think they suffer from cardiovascular diseases the like's of Blacks here in the US.

Hmmm... A side question. Would you consider African men, and American black men to be the same race? Or would/could you say that the Black man in the US have micro-evolved into what he is now because of lifestyle, food choice, etc...

I hope I'm not treading heavily on thin ice....
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Originally Posted by Sifu-TZ
...I'm glad it's such a boring sport, what would it be like if they watched something a little more interesting, like football? they'd just spontaneously combust on the spot...
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturoC View Post
I think it can be determined now with DNA with markers that point to hair type, skin pigmentation etc. But if it was just fossil bone a bazillion years from now, I don't know. I wouldn't think so. :dontknow:
Yeah there are things commonly referred to as haplotypes or haplogroups which act as determinants for features seen in various races, but they are so frequent within the human genome in general that it is hard to verifiably isolate the various haplotypes in a manner to be used to establish or determine at the biological level, race. :/:
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
Nope. There are usually sociological factors which contribute more heavily to mortality rates than race. Sociological frequencies seen in select groups or races determine those things. For instance, Blacks here in America have been known to have high cholesterol and other cardiovascular type diseases. A sociological item which can be credited to this occurrence is the fact that Blacks diets typically contain more sodium and high poly-saturated fats. The same however cannot be said of African's. I don't think they suffer from cardiovascular diseases the like's of Blacks here in the US.
Race/ancestry still plays a factor though. Someone from Africa is not genetically adapted to those salty/fatty types of foods. Sort of like how Native American's have a lower tolerance for alcohol than someone with a European ancestry and people from the Far East generally have a lower tolerance for dairy products.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxBritt04R6 View Post
Hmmm... A side question. Would you consider African men, and American black men to be the same race? Or would/could you say that the Black man in the US have micro-evolved into what he is now because of lifestyle, food choice, etc...

I hope I'm not treading heavily on thin ice....
Nah man you're good, I know you and you are asking a valid, curious question.

Now to answer it:
No I don't think Blacks in the US have evolved into a any sub-category separate from their black ancestry, however, neither have Europeans. When I say this I am speaking in a way that we can define/ sequester any of the aforementioned groups into any sub_category or new taxonomic group. Other than the bodies natural evolution for defenses, human's are the same species across the board.

Here's a good read on something on the subject | Link
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:06 PM   #12
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i voted yes... because there has to be a biological difference in DNA or we would all be the same color and same hair color, same eye color etc...
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:09 PM   #13
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theres no way if i impregnated a asian girl that we would have a little white baby pop out............so i answered yes
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denhou1974 View Post
Race/ancestry still plays a factor though. Someone from Africa is not genetically adapted to those salty/fatty types of foods. Sort of like how Native American's have a lower tolerance for alcohol than someone with a European ancestry and people from the Far East generally have a lower tolerance for dairy products.
This has more to do with the bodies naturally evolved defenses due to previous encounter's with any given problem relating to the specified illness or disease or sickness. Sort of like African's developing a defense to Malaria. This today results in many blacks having sickle cell because that was in fact the defense to malaria, mal-formed blood platelet's which died before acting as a vector to the malarian pathogen to replicate itself.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:15 PM   #15
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lol, you's two guy's...

ok, perhaps I wasn't meticulous enough when initially posing the question. My answer for both responses.

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i voted yes... because there has to be a biological difference in DNA or we would all be the same color and same hair color, same eye color etc...
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Originally Posted by Cherub View Post
theres no way if i impregnated a asian girl that we would have a little white baby pop out............so i answered yes
The reason(s) you would not either have a quote Asian looking baby is because of the variation in the distribution of alleles to any given human being. This also explains why we all vary in appearance. Each individual possesses a genetic code which establishes and determines the way they will look. Based on the gene pool from which you came, you were essentially determined to look at certain way at conception. A combination of code from both parents establishes your genetic code.
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
This has more to do with the bodies naturally evolved defenses due to previous encounter's with any given problem relating to the specified illness or disease or sickness. Sort of like African's developing a defense to Malaria. This today results in many blacks having sickle cell because that was in fact the defense to malaria, mal-formed blood platelet's which died before acting as a vector to the malarian pathogen to replicate itself.
But that's what genetic traits are. Lactose intolerance proves that there are genetic (biological) differences between races/cultures based on ancestry. The differences are slight and do not only pertain to appearance but the actual functioning of the human body.

Here's a good article on Lactose tolerance and how it came to be:
http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2002/june/lactose.htm
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:20 PM   #17
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:21 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
This has more to do with the bodies naturally evolved defenses due to previous encounter's with any given problem relating to the specified illness or disease or sickness.
thus being a mutation at a cellular level, one cannot have change without cellular mutation. in essence a change at a biological level. I vote yes
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denhou1974 View Post
But that's what genetic traits are. Lactose intolerance proves that there are genetic differences between races/cultures based on ancestry. The differences are slight and do not only pertain to appearance but the actual functioning of the human body.

Here's a good article on Lactose tolerance and how it came to be:
http://www.scienceinafrica.co.za/2002/june/lactose.htm
Lol, so what about the Caucasian or Black male who happens to be Lactose intolerant? Does such an occurrence essentially make him Asian? By the logic presented, he is/would be...
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Old 12-11-2007, 04:23 PM   #20
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lol, you's two guy's...

ok, perhaps I wasn't meticulous enough when initially posing the question. My answer for both responses.





The reason(s) you would not either have a quote Asian looking baby is because of the variation in the distribution of alleles to any given human being. This also explains why we all vary in appearance. Each individual possesses a genetic code which establishes and determines the way they will look. Based on the gene pool from which you came, you were essentially determined to look at certain way at conception. A combination of code from both parents establishes your genetic code.
you have answered your own post. yes there are differences at a biological level between various races, no matter which way you look at it.
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