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Old 12-07-2007, 02:32 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogs69 View Post
I've pulled out this exact phrase out of many online newspaper sites to make sure. doesn't look out of context to me.
Most newspaper sites use the same source.


Doesn't matter though. Who cares what somebody says in a book/movie. It's when the christians that try to enforce their beliefs by law that is the real crime here.

Has a christian boycott of anything ever worked? They always seem to promote whatever they are trying to ban.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:34 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by marlboroman71818 View Post
I think you missed the point. They should be allowed to think for themselfs. But they are also very gullable to snakes in the grass. ---directed to AurtoroC. end debate

For some of the extremists
For someone to hide those beliefs behind a movie is no different than saying a prayer at school or having a bible in the courthouse. Because no matter what you say our country was founded on a belief in . If you dont believe in it then leave it be for others too. But dont go telling people that they cant express what they feel in public for their because you dont believe but all the while you can openly express yourself. Dont try to take full control of everything and you would not be bothered. Sounds like some of the atheists want to have full power and have everything the way the want it to be without compramise
I think it is different. A movie/book is something for entertainment, that means you have no reason to watch it... besides by choice. When religion is placed into SCHOOLS and COURTS (where your attendance is MANDATORY) then things are different. Do you see the difference here?
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:36 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturoC View Post
Most newspaper sites use the same source.


Doesn't matter though. Who cares what somebody says in a book/movie. It's when the christians that try to enforce their beliefs by law that is the real crime here.

Has a christian boycott of anything ever worked? They always seem to promote whatever they are trying to ban.
considering papers face the chance of lawsuit if they put something in quotes, i would assume this would have to be accurate of what he said.

And I agree with what you say about enforcing using the law, there should be no laws that try and force you into being Christian, just like there should not be any laws that limit it either. And the right answer is just don't take your kids to go see it. Mine is too young, so I don't have to worry about it. And I have no idea on your last question.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:41 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlboroman71818 View Post
I think you missed the point. They should be allowed to think for themselfs. But they are also very gullable to snakes in the grass. ---directed to AurtoroC. end debate
True, and you missed mine as well. To many people, myself included, believe that religion and in some cases, christianity, IS the snake in the grass.


Quote:
For some of the extremists
Woah, since when does having a simple opposing view of your belief system make the other person an 'extremist'?


Quote:
For someone to hide those beliefs behind a movie is no different than saying a prayer at school or having a bible in the courthouse. Because no matter what you say our country was founded on a belief in .
Believe it or not, this country was founded on believing whatever the you wanted to belief with specifics on the gub'ment staying the out of peoples beliefs and not endorsing any one particular belief over another.

Until you argue to put a copy of the Koran, Torah or whatever else in the courts, stop about the removal of christian promotional materials in gub'ment offices.


Quote:
If you dont believe in it then leave it be for others too. But dont go telling people that they cant express what they feel in public for their because you dont believe but all the while you can openly express yourself.
You are confused by the separation and church of state and general freedom of speech. There is a difference.


Quote:
Dont try to take full control of everything and you would not be bothered. Sounds like some of the atheists want to have full power and have everything the way the want it to be without compramise
Couldn't be any further from the truth. Again, this is your misunderstanding of the two things mentioned above.

Atheists believe in freedom, christians believe in 'freedom' with restrictions. They want laws that enforce their belief system.

There is a difference.
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Last edited by ArturoC; 12-07-2007 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:44 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogs69 View Post
considering papers face the chance of lawsuit if they put something in quotes, i would assume this would have to be accurate of what he said.
I wasn't discounting the quote itself, just her statement of using multiple online newspapers.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:52 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogs69 View Post
Pullman, though, expected more. "I've been surprised by how little criticism I've got. Harry Potter's been taking all the flak. I'm a great fan of J.K. Rowling, but the people - mainly from America's Bible Belt - who complain that Harry Potter promotes Satanism or witchcraft obviously haven't got enough in their lives. Meanwhile, I've been flying under the radar, saying things that are far more subversive than anything poor old Harry has said. My books are about killing ."

I've pulled out this exact phrase out of many online newspaper sites to make sure. doesn't look out of context to me.
I'm not debating on whether or not he made this statement, even though I firmly believe that it was pulled entirely out of context and twisted the same way that many twist the stories in the bible for their own agendas, however that's neither here nor there at the moment. I simply asked if YOU yourself have read his books. If you haven't, then you are going and making assumptions based on something that you have absolutely no knowledge of, other then second hand accounts...isn't that correct?
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:04 PM   #67
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I'm not debating on whether or not he made this statement, even though I firmly believe that it was pulled entirely out of context and twisted the same way that many twist the stories in the bible for their own agendas, however that's neither here nor there at the moment. I simply asked if YOU yourself have read his books. If you haven't, then you are going and making assumptions based on something that you have absolutely no knowledge of, other then second hand accounts...isn't that correct?
No, I have not. Don't intend to. I don't care for fantasy novels. But, when the words come out of the man's mouth that his books are about killing . Not only do I believe him, I have no intention of reading them.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:09 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogs69 View Post
No, I have not. Don't intend to. I don't care for fantasy novels. But, when the words come out of the man's mouth that his books are about killing . Not only do I believe him, I have no intention of reading them.

You don't have to contribute, you can find an ebook online for 'free'.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:11 PM   #69
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You don't have to contribute, you can find an ebook online for 'free'.
lol, touche
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:13 PM   #70
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Quote:
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No, I have not. Don't intend to. I don't care for fantasy novels. But, when the words come out of the man's mouth that his books are about killing . Not only do I believe him, I have no intention of reading them.
Fair enough, I respect that. Eerybody has an opinion. I just like when people offer up their's, that they have something substantial to put behind it. It would also be great if when people pull out quotes, they understand to not take them to be so literal. It's amusing that many christians will dig, twist, skew and completely take their own meaning out of things said in the bible, yet when an educated man makes statement that is purely metephoric and needs one to look at it a little more in depth...many christians want to take it as matter of fact. Funny how some people in the world are.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:16 PM   #71
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Wouldn't it be an awesome movie to see and the Devil fight, each wanting to kill eachother? You'd think Christians love this kind of stuff.

I just find it interesting how people can watch blood and guts movies all year long but if someone indicates they will imply killing someone, they freak.

I have every desire to watch the Golden Compass. Everyone has their choice to buy a ticket and go see it or not. And geesh, it is a movie, JUST a movie.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:19 PM   #72
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Wouldn't it be an awesome movie to see and the Devil fight, each wanting to kill eachother? You'd think Christians love this kind of stuff.
I just quote myself because I realized, you see this stuff every day on TV. 'Supernatural' and a bunch of other shows and movies with their demons and angels and 'hunters' do this all the time.

I really don't get why there is so much fuss over THIS movie?!
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:24 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faylaricia View Post
Wouldn't it be an awesome movie to see and the Devil fight, each wanting to kill eachother? You'd think Christians love this kind of stuff.
I thought this was the basis for most of the movies coming out of hollywood? Good vs evil, it's the always there in some capacity.


Quote:
I just find it interesting how people can watch blood and guts movies all year long but if someone indicates they will imply killing someone, they freak.
+1

I don't know enough about the story yet, but I wonder how much if anything was cut by the censors just to get it rated down to PG-13. You can have blood 'n guts all day long, but hints of = nono, I imagine anything that might hint of anti-christian would get the axe or receive and R rating, or the dreaded... NC-17. haha

Gotta love "This Film Is Not Yet Rated"
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Quote:
I have every desire to watch the Golden Compass. Everyone has their choice to buy a ticket and go see it or not. And geesh, it is a movie, JUST a movie.
+1
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:30 PM   #74
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I wonder how much if anything was cut by the censors just to get it rated down to PG-13.

Good point!

I should try to see the German version and see if there is a difference.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:39 PM   #75
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Well i'm a christian and i don't know of any controversy with this movie.. it hasn't seemed to affect me or anyone i know.. people will show their support by $.. but i won't be supporting him.. now that i know
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:40 PM   #76
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Fair enough, I respect that. Eerybody has an opinion. I just like when people offer up their's, that they have something substantial to put behind it. It would also be great if when people pull out quotes, they understand to not take them to be so literal. It's amusing that many christians will dig, twist, skew and completely take their own meaning out of things said in the bible, yet when an educated man makes statement that is purely metephoric and needs one to look at it a little more in depth...many christians want to take it as matter of fact. Funny how some people in the world are.
Its amusing how aethiests feel that they can blanket all Christians. I guess gixxer is right about Muslims huh. They are all extremists that commit suicide bombings and such right? Since you are going to criticize me for taking a quote straight out of the guy's mouth in the wrong context, please enlighten me with your DEPTH on what he actually meant by it? I sure would think that the man, had he not meant exactly what is quoted by the paper, would have dodged saying something so easy to be hated by as taht. Not to mention it is hard to defend him when he does in fact have a history of pushing aethism.

And I like how you TRY to play devil's advocate by ACTING like you see both sides, then throw in asinine comments like above. Or in your prior post a dig about Christians having their own agenda. Not all Christians do. It can be turned the other way also about how aethiests can't look further beyond the religious side of Christianity and see that there are many sides of it that make this world a better place. Also, they feel that since the word was not used in the constitution, the government could not have been started on Christian beliefs. I could go on and on. Funny thing is, I didn't come in here making direct attacks against aethiest, as you did Christians. I came in here respectfully putting up my opinion on this author and his movie off of what I believe. You and fuknrobert both made it a point to directly attack Christianity and make asenine comments. Maybe both of you DO in fact need a little Christianity in your life.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:53 PM   #77
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pronounced a·the·ist, spelled athiest
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:55 PM   #78
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Found a prety good review of the film and loved this paragaph, though it was important to post for those who are worried about a movie based on books written by a man who claims he kills

"But is the film offensive? No. I've gotta side with the American Catholic Bishops that viewed this film rather than the headline grabbing William Donohue and his Catholic League. Sure, when viewed by an adult familiar with Pullman's religious stances and the overall theme of the books yeah, there's still enough there for a reasoned adult to see the themes. But when viewed on its own, looked at without a lot of the contextual references that New Line and Weitz were very careful to excise from this mass distributed version of the story, there is nothing deliberately anti-religion, anti- or especially anti-catholic. Does the Magesterium look a lot like the very worst of the Catholic church? Sure there's a definite aspect of the Inquisition to it. But it is nothing to get in a twist over just the usual anti-authoritarian stuff prevalent in just about every great adventure story ever written. But it's not like there really are still Catholics out there trying to tell us what we should watch, read or think...is there?"
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/34994
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Old 12-07-2007, 04:07 PM   #79
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Its amusing how aethiests feel that they can blanket all Christians. I guess gixxer is right about Muslims huh. They are all extremists that commit suicide bombings and such right? Since you are going to criticize me for taking a quote straight out of the guy's mouth in the wrong context, please enlighten me with your DEPTH on what he actually meant by it? I sure would think that the man, had he not meant exactly what is quoted by the paper, would have dodged saying something so easy to be hated by as taht. Not to mention it is hard to defend him when he does in fact have a history of pushing aethism.

And I like how you TRY to play devil's advocate by ACTING like you see both sides, then throw in asinine comments like above. Or in your prior post a dig about Christians having their own agenda. Not all Christians do. It can be turned the other way also about how aethiests can't look further beyond the religious side of Christianity and see that there are many sides of it that make this world a better place. Also, they feel that since the word was not used in the constitution, the government could not have been started on Christian beliefs. I could go on and on. Funny thing is, I didn't come in here making direct attacks against aethiest, as you did Christians. I came in here respectfully putting up my opinion on this author and his movie off of what I believe. You and fuknrobert both made it a point to directly attack Christianity and make asenine comments. Maybe both of you DO in fact need a little Christianity in your life.
Ummmm k then. First off, I'm pretty sure that I put MANY christians...which you yourself highlighted in the quote. Secondly, I've never attacked Christianity, please enlighten me as to where I did this. I gave my opinions, never attacked. Lastly, I never claimed to be an athiest (but thanks for making an assumption that because I don't believe in your beliefs or your then I am one . As for needing a little christianity in my life...thanks but no thanks. I've been very lucky and worked very hard to develope the mind that I have and don't need it filled with beliefs that I have already found don't fit my lifestyle! I don't need to believe in your to be a good, educated, wholesome person!
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:28 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuknrobert View Post
I think it is different. A movie/book is something for entertainment, that means you have no reason to watch it... besides by choice. When religion is placed into SCHOOLS and COURTS (where your attendance is MANDATORY) then things are different. Do you see the difference here?
I see what you are talking about, but at any of the schools that I went to students did not have to preticipate. They were only invited to do so if they please. Now students that try to pray with others of their religion get into trouble? Where is the freedom of speech in that?

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Originally Posted by ArturoC View Post
True, and you missed mine as well. To many people, myself included, believe that religion and in some cases, christianity, IS the snake in the grass.
That is your view and I as a Christian will not try to persuade you otherwise.



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Originally Posted by ArturoC View Post
Woah, since when does having a simple opposing view of your belief system make the other person an 'extremist'?
I was not calling you an extremist. I was talking about the way that some others are, thats why I wrote end debate after your name.


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Originally Posted by ArturoC View Post
Believe it or not, this country was founded on believing whatever the you wanted to belief with specifics on the gub'ment staying the out of peoples beliefs and not endorsing any one particular belief over another.
Umm, thats incorrect. Check the original version of the Pledge of Allegiance. Also check the United States currency. And any number of other documents that were written by your countrys founding fathers.

Quote:
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Until you argue to put a copy of the Koran, Torah or whatever else in the courts, stop about the removal of christian promotional materials in gub'ment offices.
I dont need to argue to put a copy of the Koran, Torah or any other religious book in the courtrooms, I dont use them. But I think that people should have argued to include their book and paid for it to be there instead of taking ours away from us. And since Athiest dont believe in any or word then they dont have to read any of them. The only book that I would not stand for in a courtroom is one of evil.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturoC View Post
You are confused by the separation and church of state and general freedom of speech. There is a difference.
Ive explained this above I believe




Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturoC View Post
Couldn't be any further from the truth. Again, this is your misunderstanding of the two things mentioned above.

Atheists believe in freedom, christians believe in 'freedom' with restrictions. They want laws that enforce their belief system.
You are generalizing everyone in a wide range of religions which is redicoulous. Christians make up many deferent religious denominations. And I dont want to make up laws to inforce my belief system, so obviously you are incorrect.

There is a difference.[/QUOTE]
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