MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > General Discussion > Taking it to the Track
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


Like us on Facebook! Regular shirt GIVEAWAYS and more

Advertisement

Reply
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 12-05-2007, 03:48 PM   #41
Moody
Holy Smokes!
 
Moody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 14,685


Bike(s):
281









Lean!
__________________

Open your eyes and reclaim the freedom you were born with. - Moody
Moody is offline   Reply With Quote
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Counter Steering your bike Blanco General Discussion (Moto Related) 43 07-05-2012 11:42 AM
Is Counter-Steering Real? xtelevisionset General Discussion (Moto Related) 6 04-06-2012 09:16 PM
Counter Strike 1.6 tcmatt Off Topic 4 11-19-2006 07:03 PM
counter strike? bunxx Off Topic 31 07-12-2006 05:42 PM
Advertisement
Old 12-05-2007, 04:06 PM   #42
texlurch
Official MH tag inspector
 
texlurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Smack dab in the middle of Colo
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 10,236

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
04 ZX-10R
02 ZX-12R BOTM 12/11
00 ZX-12R
07 GSXR 600
00 TL1000R BOTM 07/12 (sold)

Member Garage





You can turn a bike by leaning with your body, but it is a slow process, and limited in how far the bike will go over. Take your hands off the bars while going down hill and weight the pegs while you lean, it will turn.

Countersteering is pushing and/or pulling the bar to initiate the turn. You push on the bar you want to turn towards. For a real quick "flick", push and pull AND weight the inside peg.

Trying to put weight on the outside peg works on a dirt bike, not a street bike.

Try getting on the gas "just a little" bit, barely enough to maintain speed in the corner; then you can add or subtract lean. As soon as you start opening the throttle, the bike will want to stand up. You can shift more wieght in, and try to countersteer more, but the bike will still try to stand up.

Also try to get your head and shoulders down and in, so you are looking at your inside mirror. Trying to stay more upright will make the bike want to stand up.
__________________
sig pic
A wise man once told me: "No matter how fine she is, just remember. Somewhere, someone is tired of her !"
.
.... Home of the "Black Ninja's"
texlurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2007, 04:20 PM   #43
Grinchy
Senior Member
 
Grinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seabrook
Feedback Rating: (15)
Posts: 15,535

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'prila









Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
You can turn a bike by leaning with your body, but it is a slow process, and limited in how far the bike will go over. Take your hands off the bars while going down hill and weight the pegs while you lean, it will turn.

Countersteering is pushing and/or pulling the bar to initiate the turn. You push on the bar you want to turn towards. For a real quick "flick", push and pull AND weight the inside peg.

Trying to put weight on the outside peg works on a dirt bike, not a street bike.

Try getting on the gas "just a little" bit, barely enough to maintain speed in the corner; then you can add or subtract lean. As soon as you start opening the throttle, the bike will want to stand up. You can shift more wieght in, and try to countersteer more, but the bike will still try to stand up.

Also try to get your head and shoulders down and in, so you are looking at your inside mirror. Trying to stay more upright will make the bike want to stand up.
Thanks for that, will give it a go on the next outing, apart from this bit,
Quote:
For a real quick "flick", push and pull AND weight the inside peg.
That's got gravel trap written all over it lol
Grinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2007, 04:25 PM   #44
texlurch
Official MH tag inspector
 
texlurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Smack dab in the middle of Colo
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 10,236

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
04 ZX-10R
02 ZX-12R BOTM 12/11
00 ZX-12R
07 GSXR 600
00 TL1000R BOTM 07/12 (sold)

Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
Thanks for that, will give it a go on the next outing, apart from this bit,
That's got gravel trap written all over it lol

Nah, you just have to play at lower speeds and input levels.

I can weave the freeway stripes at 60-70 on my heavy pig, so you should be able to flick yours with less input.
__________________
sig pic
A wise man once told me: "No matter how fine she is, just remember. Somewhere, someone is tired of her !"
.
.... Home of the "Black Ninja's"
texlurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2007, 04:30 PM   #45
Capafool
QuePaso Racing
 
Capafool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SW Side (SugarLand/Houston Border)
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 1,706

Experience: 7 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'01 Gixxer 1k (Track)
'10 Duc 848 (Street)
'05 Drz-110 (Tarded)







Send a message via AIM to Capafool Send a message via MSN to Capafool
if you can ride a bicycle with no hands, try going in a straight line, and lean to the right to turn a little while paying attn to the handlebars. Youll see them rotate to the left a little bit and then rotate to the right into the direction you're turning.
__________________
~Gianni~
CMRA Sprints #486
TMGP Endurance #46
"Scientists discover the world that exists; Engineers create the world that never was."
Capafool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2007, 04:31 PM   #46
Scorpio
Twist the Grip, Let'r Rip
 
Scorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Shmearth
Feedback Rating: (6)
Posts: 12,292

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+


450x sumo (sold)
RC51 (sold)
Honda Grom 125(sold)

Member Garage





Send a message via AIM to Scorpio
"Steer left to go right"

-Lightning McQueen
Scorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2007, 04:39 PM   #47
Grinchy
Senior Member
 
Grinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seabrook
Feedback Rating: (15)
Posts: 15,535

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'prila









Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
Nah, you just have to play at lower speeds and input levels.

I can weave the freeway stripes at 60-70 on my heavy pig, so you should be able to flick yours with less input.
I guess I gotta go back to go forward !!!
Frustrating cause I can do it in warm up mode but not at speed.
Grinchys theory: is that a riders brain is like a computer processor, and that dictates how much input you can handle. The fast guys have a big ol Pentium 4, twin core, 10 gig blah de blah and then others of us have the equivalent of the old Atari tennis console which is why we can do things slow but struggle as the speed and input picks up !!
Grinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2007, 04:52 PM   #48
Swift E
Senior Member
 
Swift E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Katy
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 11,046

Experience: 6 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
Triumph 675









Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio View Post
"Steer left to go right"

-Lightning McQueen
__________________
obama1
I'll keep my freedom, my guns and my money and you can keep The Change!
Swift E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2007, 05:18 PM   #49
Moody
Holy Smokes!
 
Moody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 14,685


Bike(s):
281









Have you had any instruction at the track? Nobody I know thinks about counter steering while trying to get around the track faster. It is just part of what happens when you get your body position right and start leaning into the corners.
__________________

Open your eyes and reclaim the freedom you were born with. - Moody
Moody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2007, 05:31 PM   #50
matemike
Grip it 'n' Rip it!
 
matemike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rosharon
Feedback Rating: (3)
Posts: 3,070

Experience: 5 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2007 GSXR 750
2007 GSXR 600...tracked out



Member Garage


When you're making good speed down an open road, slightly push on the hanlde bar, notice how the bike leans toward the side of the bars you pushed, that is Counter steering.
__________________
Slow is smooth..smooth is fast
matemike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2007, 06:15 PM   #51
Grinchy
Senior Member
 
Grinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seabrook
Feedback Rating: (15)
Posts: 15,535

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'prila









Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody View Post
Have you had any instruction at the track? Nobody I know thinks about counter steering while trying to get around the track faster. It is just part of what happens when you get your body position right and start leaning into the corners.
No, no tuition as such, just a gang of mates who like to ride tracks.
A few of them have gone on to race.
Have picked up a fair bit listening to and watching others over the years !

Ok,
Watch this quick clip which is at the track I last rode at.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yGDGTzunhzQ&feature=related
Go to exit the bombhole, up to Corams and then down towards Russels (he says “bit of a slide !).
You see the bike in front make a lazy right then a hard flick left onto the start finish.
Parrish the commentator (ex World 500cc, BSB etc) makes it look easy but I lose bundles of time here especially on the flick left.
I seem to have to throw the bike from one side to the next whilst my mates stay low and fairly central (to quote the man earlier) and are much faster.
When I query it they say,
“Counter steer Grinchy, as you near completion of the right, bang that left bar out hard and shift your bodyweight!!” They make a point of doing it !!!!
Like I say, I know what it is and I can do it warming up, but not at speed !!!
Obviously something I need to work at because it isn’t coming naturally.
I just want to improve...............
Grinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2007, 06:24 PM   #52
texlurch
Official MH tag inspector
 
texlurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Smack dab in the middle of Colo
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 10,236

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 1

Bike(s):
04 ZX-10R
02 ZX-12R BOTM 12/11
00 ZX-12R
07 GSXR 600
00 TL1000R BOTM 07/12 (sold)

Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
You see the bike in front make a lazy right then a hard flick left onto the start finish.

I seem to have to throw the bike from one side to the next whilst my mates stay low and fairly central (to quote the man earlier) and are much faster.
When I query it they say,
“Counter steer Grinchy, as you near completion of the right, bang that left bar out hard and shift your bodyweight!!” They make a point of doing it !!!!
Like I say, I know what it is and I can do it warming up, but not at speed !!!
Obviously something I need to work at because it isn’t coming naturally.
I just want to improve...............
That is the quick flick I was referring to. Shove the left and pull the right.. at speed the gyroscope effect of the front wheel resists changing direction more and more, so it takes more force to change directions as the speed increases.

Plus shifting the weight to the left peg at the same time.
__________________
sig pic
A wise man once told me: "No matter how fine she is, just remember. Somewhere, someone is tired of her !"
.
.... Home of the "Black Ninja's"
texlurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2007, 06:30 PM   #53
bumblebee
Yeah I'm flippin' YOU off
 
bumblebee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pearland
Feedback Rating: (3)
Posts: 12,270


Bike(s):
'74 Suzuki GT380
'82 XS650 StreetTracker
'10 Ducati Streetfighter
'83 Yamaha Seca 900






I think TexLurch is right, you just gotta force it to turn sometimes, to overcome the gyroscopic effect of the wheels.
It IS something to be worked up to though. Take your time and ease into it. Avoid trying to keep up with your friends if it takes you out of your comfort zone.
__________________
Asphalt is for racing... dirt is for growing potatoes. - J. Diester
When seconds count... the police are only minutes away.
Grow up and be a productive member of society already.
Bevo- "I lack skillz"
bumblebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 12:54 AM   #54
ange062
Senior Member
 
ange062's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Heights (Downtown)
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 389

Experience: 7 years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'07 ZX-6R race bike
'05 SV650 Street
CMRA Expert #826, #63 Team Supafly Mini-Endurance, #26 IDB Racing BB Endurance







Send a message via AIM to ange062
Seriously?? Every race school I have ever been to has said to lay off the bars, sure you use them for turn-in, but your body position is SO much more important when holding a line through a turn. Ask any of the expert CMRA guys around here, I think they will agree with me.

And Grinchy, if you really want to learn how to track ride, look into some schools. You can do a ridesmart school with Ty Howard for fairly cheap, or if you have the bling you can look into private lessons with Larry Myers or Ty Howard, but they are going to set you back ~$500. Jason Pridmore supposedly has a good school also, though I havent been. I think any of these guys would agree that your body position is 10x more important then thinking about body steering.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kawi jm View Post
Thats called body steering, and actually many riding schools preach against it. There are some exceptions, but most of the "fast" guys don't hang off all that much. I can think of a few that do, but most stay centered (somewhat) and as low as possible.
ange062 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 01:36 AM   #55
SCRC John
Why am I not a MH sponsor
 
SCRC John's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Magnolia, Tx
Feedback Rating: (5)
Posts: 2,747

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+






Member Garage





Maybe I wasn't exactly clear with my post. You cannot turn the bike correctly, without countersteering. There is only one input to turn the bike. Once into the turn, assuming it is a single apex turn, you should be able to let go of the bars...theoretically. I was refering to turning, or initiating the turn with body (peg) inputs only. Thats wrong. Body position doesn't turn the bike per say, but what it will do is make for different lean angles.

John
SCRC John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 03:00 AM   #56
hypertrophyy
Senior Member
 
hypertrophyy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodlands
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 706


Bike(s):
07 600rr track









Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody View Post
Have you had any instruction at the track? Nobody I know thinks about counter steering while trying to get around the track faster. It is just part of what happens when you get your body position right and start leaning into the corners.
Yeah. I almost never think about the concept anymore....

Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
You can turn a bike by leaning with your body, but it is a slow process, and limited in how far the bike will go over. Take your hands off the bars while going down hill and weight the pegs while you lean, it will turn.

Countersteering is pushing and/or pulling the bar to initiate the turn. You push on the bar you want to turn towards. For a real quick "flick", push and pull AND weight the inside peg.

Trying to put weight on the outside peg works on a dirt bike, not a street bike.

Try getting on the gas "just a little" bit, barely enough to maintain speed in the corner; then you can add or subtract lean. As soon as you start opening the throttle, the bike will want to stand up. You can shift more wieght in, and try to countersteer more, but the bike will still try to stand up.

Also try to get your head and shoulders down and in, so you are looking at your inside mirror. Trying to stay more upright will make the bike want to stand up.

1+ counter steering comes into play at most in the entrance of the turn. This is where fast racers get the quick flick. I think this guy Grinchy knows this and just wants to talk. Once fully committed... its mostly throttle control and smoothness through to your exit.

If I wasn't rolling on the throttle through mid corner... I bet I could take both hands off the bars fully committed. Hmmm that would look cool....
hypertrophyy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 04:43 AM   #57
Grinchy
Senior Member
 
Grinchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seabrook
Feedback Rating: (15)
Posts: 15,535

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'prila









Quote:
Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
I think TexLurch is right, you just gotta force it to turn sometimes, to overcome the gyroscopic effect of the wheels.
It IS something to be worked up to though. Take your time and ease into it. Avoid trying to keep up with your friends if it takes you out of your comfort zone.
it's that forcing it bit that I'm lacking.....................
Quote:
Avoid trying to keep up with your friends if it takes you out of your comfort zone.
What's a comfort zone ???????????
Just messing !!

Thanks for the input & discussion guys.
Grinchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 10:26 AM   #58
Moody
Holy Smokes!
 
Moody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Feedback Rating: (4)
Posts: 14,685


Bike(s):
281









Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
it's that forcing it bit that I'm lacking.....................

What's a comfort zone ???????????
Just messing !!

Thanks for the input & discussion guys.
Usually for quick changes like that it is all with your legs. Stand up enough to switch your weight quickly.
__________________

Open your eyes and reclaim the freedom you were born with. - Moody
Moody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 08:30 PM   #59
NoFear
Busa Chairman of Posing
 
NoFear's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Texas USA
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 7,375












Thumbs up Slow-speed countersteering

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by melissa claire View Post
Busa club. why did you not mention that? that makes things all nice and peachy
Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths. When you go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength-
NoFear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 08:37 PM   #60
NoFear
Busa Chairman of Posing
 
NoFear's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Texas USA
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 7,375












Keith Code's No BS Bike

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by melissa claire View Post
Busa club. why did you not mention that? that makes things all nice and peachy
Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths. When you go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength-
NoFear is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:44 PM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy