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Old 12-03-2007, 02:14 PM   #61
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what happened to using pepper spray or the good ol rodney king baton ....

more and more tazer stories, and unless this lady was 6'5 250 i doubt the cop had to really use the tazer
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:19 PM   #62
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Ok cowboys, here's how it goes. there is in law enforcement something called the "use of force continuim". it starts with verbal orders, the physical force, the dog/baton/pepper/taser, the gun. the officer can only go 1 step up from the offender, as in you can't get shot for telling him to f off. however, if you've never tried to handcuff someone who REALLY does'nt want it, you'll end up beating the out of them. the training is VERY limited, OJT is what you get the most. and not all cops make arrests, some are paperwork monkeys that don't wrestle with people very often. if you are my size and don't want to wear cuffs, it's gonna be a long fight. these "methods" people assume cops have are pretty limited and don't go very far. since leaving law enforcement I kept up martial arts training, and it would take a half-dozen cops without batons/tasers to cuff me.
I usually hand cops their on stuff like this, but she probably deserved it
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:20 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Not that easy. That used to be the case, now we have "minimum standards" which seem to get lower and lower and lower all the time. If yall could see some of the folks who get in under "minimum standards" these days, you'd see why that is a lost cause- all to get women in to the services.

My take on this thing is that I have seen many "women" who were more manly than a lot of men I know, and I have seen some very big strong women get crazy before. I also have seen women with superhuman strenth from whatever their elicite substances of choice may be.

Here's the appearance I get by reading that article: Woman shows up with kid, doesn't want responsibility for raising him/her and wants to turn the kid in like a Wal-Mart return. Cop asks a few simple questions, woman, likely stoned or "coming down" gets frust and causes a ruckus. She gets warned many times to calm the eff down and doesn't. Officers taze her dumb . She then becomes compliant. End of story.
As for the tazer "killing" someone with a bad ticker, well, sure, it's possible. But for the "armchair" doctors out there, do you realize the difference in energy delivery between a "defibrillator" and a tazer? Look up "joules" and get back to me. After that, realize that defibrillation starts at 200 of 'em (except some bi-phasic units which are a bit lower).

Realize this too: simple restraints have "caused" deaths before too. Just about anything, in the right mixture/ timing, can cause your demise.

My bet is she deserved getting tazed, and shouldn't have acted an to get tazed while she was pregnant anyway. Any reasonable person can deduce that.

sounds plausible, but the side of the story we were presented with said nothing along those lines, and it was the officers side of the story to boot.

maybe he shouldn't have grabbed her while she was leaving? had she committed a crime that needed restraining? i must have missed that part
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:23 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
My bet is she deserved getting tazed, and shouldn't have acted an to get tazed while she was pregnant anyway. Any reasonable person can deduce that.
She was pregnant. Period.

And the reasonable person thing, I didn't pick that up in the article because she is, uhh, trying to give her baby away!
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:26 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Not that easy. That used to be the case, now we have "minimum standards" which seem to get lower and lower and lower all the time. If yall could see some of the folks who get in under "minimum standards" these days, you'd see why that is a lost cause- all to get women in to the services.

My take on this thing is that I have seen many "women" who were more manly than a lot of men I know, and I have seen some very big strong women get crazy before. I also have seen women with superhuman strenth from whatever their elicite substances of choice may be.

Here's the appearance I get by reading that article: Woman shows up with kid, doesn't want responsibility for raising him/her and wants to turn the kid in like a Wal-Mart return. Cop asks a few simple questions, woman, likely stoned or "coming down" gets frust and causes a ruckus. She gets warned many times to calm the eff down and doesn't. Officers taze her dumb . She then becomes compliant. End of story.

As for the tazer "killing" someone with a bad ticker, well, sure, it's possible. But for the "armchair" doctors out there, do you realize the difference in energy delivery between a "defibrillator" and a tazer? Look up "joules" and get back to me. After that, realize that defibrillation starts at 200 of 'em (except some bi-phasic units which are a bit lower).

Realize this too: simple restraints have "caused" deaths before too. Just about anything, in the right mixture/ timing, can cause your demise.

My bet is she deserved getting tazed, and shouldn't have acted an to get tazed while she was pregnant anyway. Any reasonable person can deduce that.

you do realize that when you defib someone THEY ARE ALREADY DEAD! The heart is already stopped...you are trying to start it again.
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:26 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
Not that easy. That used to be the case, now we have "minimum standards" which seem to get lower and lower and lower all the time. If yall could see some of the folks who get in under "minimum standards" these days, you'd see why that is a lost cause- all to get women in to the services.

My take on this thing is that I have seen many "women" who were more manly than a lot of men I know, and I have seen some very big strong women get crazy before. I also have seen women with superhuman strenth from whatever their elicite substances of choice may be.

Here's the appearance I get by reading that article: Woman shows up with kid, doesn't want responsibility for raising him/her and wants to turn the kid in like a Wal-Mart return. Cop asks a few simple questions, woman, likely stoned or "coming down" gets frust and causes a ruckus. She gets warned many times to calm the eff down and doesn't. Officers taze her dumb . She then becomes compliant. End of story.

As for the tazer "killing" someone with a bad ticker, well, sure, it's possible. But for the "armchair" doctors out there, do you realize the difference in energy delivery between a "defibrillator" and a tazer? Look up "joules" and get back to me. After that, realize that defibrillation starts at 200 of 'em (except some bi-phasic units which are a bit lower).

Realize this too: simple restraints have "caused" deaths before too. Just about anything, in the right mixture/ timing, can cause your demise.

My bet is she deserved getting tazed, and shouldn't have acted an to get tazed while she was pregnant anyway. Any reasonable person can deduce that.

yea ill have to look that up cause there is a max on tazers
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:29 PM   #67
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oh and by the way...if you taser someone with a pacemaker...it kills the unit and that can cause heart failure. I would say it is a little harder to tell if some has a pacemaker installed than let's say pregnant?
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:31 PM   #68
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thats assuming you think this officer did wrong.
so you would of shot the too?
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:32 PM   #69
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so you would of shot the too?
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:33 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetcycles
maybe he shouldn't have grabbed her while she was leaving? had she committed a crime that needed restraining? i must have missed that part
I think it's been clearly demonstrated that no state (shown so far) carries the "Baby Moses" law up to 12 mos- so the "crime" would be abandonment, followed by not complying with an officer's orders.

Like was mentioned earlier- if the scenario played out that the PD let the woman leave, then she kills the kid(s), what a stink it would be on the PD. At the point it appeared to escalate to, the safety of the child was at stake, and that's why the Mother should have been restrained. Besides the fact that I'd bet $10 she was on something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalline
She was pregnant. Period.

And the reasonable person thing, I didn't pick that up in the article because she is, uhh, trying to give her baby away!
Bingo! She wasn't reasonable. Very good, thanks for proving my point That's probably why her dumb got tazed.

Regarding the "she was pregnant" thing, how many women have you seen or know that were pregnant and you didn't know it? I know a woman that I see at work frequently that is ~30 mos along, and she looks exactly like she did 8 mos ago!

I also have seen many instances of women claiming pregnancy who weren't...
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:33 PM   #71
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i wouldnt have, i'm just saying it sounds like he would have.
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:35 PM   #72
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i wouldnt have, i'm just saying it sounds like he would have.

I know...still funny though
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:35 PM   #73
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:37 PM   #74
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that is ~30 mos along, and she looks exactly like she did 8 mos ago!
huh, 9 mos is full term, 30 mos........
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:38 PM   #75
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you do realize that when you defib someone THEY ARE ALREADY DEAD! The heart is already stopped...you are trying to start it again.
No, but that's what TV would have you believe.

Cardiac standstill (when the heart is stopped) is "Asystole", which you do NOT defibrillate.

Ventricular Fibrillation is the most common time to defibrillate, and is characterized physically as the heart "quivering" in contractions, not producing a pulse- however sometimes is does.

You also defibrillate for SVT (Supra Ventricular Tachycardia) and VT (Ventricular Tachycardia), both of which produce a pulse. You can also be awake when you get defibrillated, such as with SVT and "synchronized cardioversion". Yeah, it's more than a tazer.

Some pacemakers can be affected by the tazer, as I said, with the right mixture, death can occur from lots of things.
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:40 PM   #76
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huh, 9 mos is full term, 30 mos........
I meant weeks... my bad.
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:43 PM   #77
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No, but that's what TV would have you believe.

Cardiac standstill (when the heart is stopped) is "Asystole", which you do NOT defibrillate.

Ventricular Fibrillation is the most common time to defibrillate, and is characterized physically as the heart "quivering" in contractions, not producing a pulse- however sometimes is does.

You also defibrillate for SVT (Supra Ventricular Tachycardia) and VT (Ventricular Tachycardia), both of which produce a pulse. You can also be awake when you get defibrillated, such as with SVT and "synchronized cardioversion". Yeah, it's more than a tazer.

Some pacemakers can be affected by the tazer, as I said, with the right mixture, death can occur from lots of things.
does it matter on the fine definitions? if a person is in need to be defibed...they are dieing...no healthy person is in need to be shocked. I'll get my wife to chime in on this when she gets up...she is a cardiac transplant recovery nurse at st.lukes.
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:28 PM   #78
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if a person is in need to be defibed...they are dieing...no healthy person is in need to be shocked. I'll get my wife to chime in on this when she gets up...she is a cardiac transplant recovery nurse at st.lukes.
Yeah, like I said too though, the difference in the energy is huge between a tazer and a defibrillation. You're the one who said the "heart was stopped and they're dead", not me. Besides, plenty of folks "look" healthy and have a problem with SVT or A-Fib RVR but they'll get defibrillated. Heck, Akeem Olagawan (sp?) had A-fib RVR, and I think he looks pretty healthy. Even with a synchronized cardioversion at the lower energy levels is way more than the tazer.

But let's not get off-track. Seems pretty obvious that something happened to get this person tazed to me. I'm sure the PD isn't running around at the station, knowing they're being taped, and indescriminately tazing folks for shidds-n-giggles.
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:36 PM   #79
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The fact that she was trying to leave isn't the issue here. The excessive force is the issue.
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:43 PM   #80
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The fact that she was trying to leave isn't the issue here. The excessive force is the issue.
Your opinion is you think it was excessive, the PD who used the force didn't.
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