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Old 12-02-2007, 02:30 PM   #81
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i don't know how to embed so this is the link to the dyno run..

http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x...t=SANY5570.flv

only picture i had of the bike that day...

SANY5559640x480
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Old 12-02-2007, 02:42 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXALAN View Post
Look at it closer bro....the red dotted line is always the target AFR of 13.0-1. The racebike's AFR curves were WAY under that.....his afr is in the 11.8-12.0-1 range......That would be a decent curve for a turbo/nitrous bike but for all motor, it needs to be around 12.8-13.0-1 depending on what the motor wants.....Some engines make more power at 12.8, some at 13.2.....I usually tune them until they make peak HP and TQ, then I add a tad more fuel, usually to get .2 richer AFR to help with the ram air affect and when cold temps set it....You will show more mph gain at the strip with a slightly richer AFR although your HP on the dyno might be 1-2hp down from peak. Tune for the strip and mph, not just for dyno hp....but the dyno gets you close.

BTW POH had their charts setup correctly. I would say the numbers are low but lots of the smaller CC bikes dynoed right where they should, so that leads me to believe either as the HP numbers go up, something in the software/calibration is holding them back some. At lower hp levels, the dyno was dead on.....not sure. But 06 R1s, 06 1000RRs and 06 ZX10s normally make at least 150hp SAE......Busas are almost always 148-157hp.
I agree with what your reasoning is in respect to the chart, But as i was making the same argument to them, they told me that below the red line was lean and it made no sense to me. 18 is lean 11 is rich in all A/F ratio Graphs.

the line is like right below 13.
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Old 12-02-2007, 02:48 PM   #83
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Quote:
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I agree with what your reasoning is in respect to the chart, But as i was making the same argument to them, they told me that below the red line was lean and it made no sense to me. 18 is lean 11 is rich in all A/F ratio Graphs.

the line is like right below 13.
yeah, speedjunkie said exactly what you just said to Wes. But Wes explained to him that it wasn't air/fuel i didn't get the reasoning but whatever:/: i guess i need to educate myself
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Old 12-02-2007, 02:49 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadman View Post
Do analog ignition devices cause strange things to happen on a dyno? 2 of my 3 pulls didn't show up completely on the graph. They just cut out at 8k rpm.

Also, why doesn't a dynojet dyno show at what horsepower you made peak HP and Torque?

Given the fluctuations everyone is talking about, it seems that an eddy current is the only way to find true max power. But I really like the dynojet cause it lets you know about mixture across the whole RPM band.
I was wondering the same thing. At what Rpm did we make that Peak number?
I guess having to go back and trace the Chart is the only way.
like 100Hp @ RPM and 40 Torque @ Rpm.

Like on cars where Torque and Hp are always the same at 5252rpm and Such.
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Old 12-02-2007, 02:53 PM   #85
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Quote:
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yeah, speedjunkie said exactly what you just said to Wes. But Wes explained to him that it wasn't air/fuel i didn't get the reasoning but whatever:/: i guess i need to educate myself
who make the reverse shifter! I want one.

By the way pm me for Price on that bike!
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Old 12-02-2007, 03:02 PM   #86
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who make the reverse shifter! I want one.

By the way pm me for Price on that bike!
i think it's because of the vortex rear sets, they make it to where you can set up the shifter that way with them.
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Old 12-02-2007, 03:02 PM   #87
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2 dollars
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Old 12-02-2007, 03:04 PM   #88
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2 dollars
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Old 12-02-2007, 03:07 PM   #89
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2 dollars
add at least 1 zero to that, and were half way there
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Old 12-02-2007, 03:14 PM   #90
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Ill give you 2000. for it... actually Edgar... give hime 2000 for it...
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Old 12-02-2007, 03:57 PM   #91
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Speedjunkie, Anything after 13.0-1 AFR at wide open throttle is lean, anything lower(numerically) is richer. Sounds like WES told you just the opposite of reality. That chart of Bob's bike is woefully rich at WOT.


SHADMAN, funny you mention ignition devices....I am assuming you are talking about a TRE(timing eliminator). This saturday I dynoed my 1000 and I have had a problem with the bike hitting the rev limiter 400 rpms early and we couldn't figure out why....Factory limiter is set at 12,250, mine was hitting it at 11,800 on the dyno.......well after lots of tinkering, I removed the TRE and made some pulls, sure enough, it was back to hitting the limiter at 12,250..... On the tach, there was about 500rpm increase before the limiter kicked in.....Needless to say, I removed the TRE. It did lose a little snappiness down low below 3500 rpms at part throttle but the tuner was able to make up most of it with good mapping. If I were you, I would remove it and see if the bike runs any better up top. I have always been a big advocate of TREs but now.....I recommend against them. Also we tried putting one on Brett's busa a couple months ago and it made his develope a miss at high rpms, almost like a cut out....he took it off and his bike was fine. Food for thought.
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:05 PM   #92
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ALSO, as for your peak numbers, a Dynojet can also show you your peaks, its up to the operator to set the chart up to show max values. Also if you have the run file, you can use DJ run viewer to play with your own dyno chart. You can point the cursor at any point on the graph and it will show you the hp/rpm at that point.

Go to www.dynojet.com, go to power commander downloads and download the RUN VIEWER. Then contact Wes, have him email you the RUN FILE, use the ruv viewer to open the run file, then you can play with anything on the run...You can set up the charts however you want, change correction factors, use the cursor to plot points (your peaks) on the chart etc.....

After you play with run viewer for a while, you will learn everything about how dyno charts work and should be set up.

A DJ250 dyno is a brake dyno like an eddy current dyno, although most tuners don't use the brake for wide open runs, the brake is mainly used for tuning part throttle, like 2-80% throttle ranges from 2000 rpms to the limiter. The only thing better about some Eddy Current dynos is they use a 4 gas analyzer as opposed to just a wideband O2 but.....not really gonna make a difference as a power commander can only tune so much....
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:05 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXALAN View Post
Speedjunkie, Anything after 13.0-1 AFR at wide open throttle is lean, anything lower(numerically) is richer. Sounds like WES told you just the opposite of reality. That chart of Bob's bike is woefully rich at WOT.


SHADMAN, funny you mention ignition devices....I am assuming you are talking about a TRE(timing eliminator). This saturday I dynoed my 1000 and I have had a problem with the bike hitting the rev limiter 400 rpms early and we couldn't figure out why....Factory limiter is set at 12,250, mine was hitting it at 11,800 on the dyno.......well after lots of tinkering, I removed the TRE and made some pulls, sure enough, it was back to hitting the limiter at 12,250..... On the tach, there was about 500rpm increase before the limiter kicked in.....Needless to say, I removed the TRE. It did lose a little snappiness down low below 3500 rpms at part throttle but the tuner was able to make up most of it with good mapping. If I were you, I would remove it and see if the bike runs any better up top. I have always been a big advocate of TREs but now.....I recommend against them. Also we tried putting one on Brett's busa a couple months ago and it made his develope a miss at high rpms, almost like a cut out....he took it off and his bike was fine. Food for thought.

Thats what Im Saying!

Wes Confused me by telling me the opposite
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:10 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadman View Post
Do analog ignition devices cause strange things to happen on a dyno? 2 of my 3 pulls didn't show up completely on the graph. They just cut out at 8k rpm.

Also, why doesn't a dynojet dyno show at what horsepower you made peak HP and Torque?

Given the fluctuations everyone is talking about, it seems that an eddy current is the only way to find true max power. But I really like the dynojet cause it lets you know about mixture across the whole RPM band.
BTW the reason your graph cutout is he probably lost the signal from the inductive clamp going around the white/blue wire at the ecm. The clamp goes around the wire, he was likely sitting on it when making runs, if it lost signal, RPMs and TQ readings drop from the run.

TRE wouldn't mess with the dynoing itself. Now if the bike itself was cutting out at 8k, I would start diagnosing by pulling off the TRE and going from there.
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:15 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedjunkie View Post
I was wondering the same thing. At what Rpm did we make that Peak number?
I guess having to go back and trace the Chart is the only way.
like 100Hp @ RPM and 40 Torque @ Rpm.

Like on cars where Torque and Hp are always the same at 5252rpm and Such.

You are correct, HP and TQ should meet at 5250rpms, if not, something is jacked with the chart/setup. See my chart below, they cross at 5250rpms, this is on a DJ250 dyno..

alan
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:16 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXALAN View Post
ALSO, as for your peak numbers, a Dynojet can also show you your peaks, its up to the operator to set the chart up to show max values. Also if you have the run file, you can use DJ run viewer to play with your own dyno chart. You can point the cursor at any point on the graph and it will show you the hp/rpm at that point.

Go to www.dynojet.com, go to power commander downloads and download the RUN VIEWER. Then contact Wes, have him email you the RUN FILE, use the ruv viewer to open the run file, then you can play with anything on the run...You can set up the charts however you want, change correction factors, use the cursor to plot points (your peaks) on the chart etc.....

After you play with run viewer for a while, you will learn everything about how dyno charts work and should be set up.

A DJ250 dyno is a brake dyno like an eddy current dyno, although most tuners don't use the brake for wide open runs, the brake is mainly used for tuning part throttle, like 2-80% throttle ranges from 2000 rpms to the limiter. The only thing better about some Eddy Current dynos is they use a 4 gas analyzer as opposed to just a wideband O2 but.....not really gonna make a difference as a power commander can only tune so much....

Im Used to tuning on Load bearing Dynos, Even eddy current dynos are not as accurate and cant realy load at wide open throtle.

Dastek Has the most accurate Dynos world wide and can be loaded at Wide open throtle, to tune per RPM at wide open (performance) and partial throtle (economy). www.Dastek.co.za or Mustang dynos.
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:19 PM   #97
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Thats a good dyno

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXALAN View Post
You are correct, HP and TQ should meet at 5250rpms, if not, something is jacked with the chart/setup. See my chart below, they cross at 5250rpms, this is on a DJ250 dyno..

alan
When I first set up the dyno meet I thought about What dynos to select
I guess his dyno is set up to support your HP. thats Awsome
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:27 PM   #98
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Here is one of my charts for my busa, I just did a print screen of the RUN VIEWER so you could see the plotted points for peaks, this gives you an idea of how to play with it and what it can do....With run viewer, you can do what the dyno operator didn't do as far as setting up you chart how YOU want it...See below:
busadyno
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:58 PM   #99
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those #s seem low now LOL
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Old 12-02-2007, 08:25 PM   #100
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I remember from my SAE days that 12.8 parts air to 1 part fuel was the ideal stochiometric ratoio for the most complete combustion with highest power and lowest by product. According to Wikipedia,

"In Naturally Aspirated engines powered by octane, maximum power is frequently reached at AFRs ranging from 12.5 - 13.3:1"

So anything below 12.5 to 1 is going to have less air and more fuel. Above 13.3 to 1 is too much air and not enough fuel.

This is for max power, not max emissions or max driveability.
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