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Old 11-27-2007, 08:33 AM   #81
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Remember, it isn't fact. It may have. Which also goes back to the fact that we use FAITH. There are a lot of traditions that the Pagans could have gotten from before their time. But nonetheless, Halloween still IS a Christian Holiday which you doubted. Where they got it from is a different debate. I can't prove that they did or didn't get it from Pagans. It has been written that it could have been, or may have been. Doesn't make it fact.
its written jesus could have been jew's savior, doesnt make it fact

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Again, an opinion. Not fact. Were you around in Pagan times? And have you seen the documents from Pagan times that prove these were traditions? Or could this be something (as which has been said about the scrolls and bible) that was created by someone who wanted to convert people away from Christianity?
what?
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:35 AM   #82
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By the 800s, the influence of Christianity had spread into Celtic lands. In the seventh century, Pope Boniface IV designated November 1 All Saints' Day, a time to honor saints and martyrs. It is widely believed today that the pope was attempting to replace the Celtic festival of the dead with a related, but church-sanctioned holiday.
And which it is STILL a Christian holiday. Go back and read what I said. I called it a Christian Holiday in my original post. Witchdoctor said it was funny it was called that and wanted to see where it was a Christian Holiday. You just helped my point. I don't think the debate ever said it had to be from the time that Jesus walked the earth, or where it originated. It is a CHURCH-SANCTIONED holiday which makes it a CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY.
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:38 AM   #83
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I feel ya on that. I don't want to hear that Christianity is false. I don't want to believe that may not exist. Of course I don't. I can't prove that Christian Holidays weren't taken from the Pagans to help convert. I know what I feel, and I will continue to feel until it is proven to me that Christianity is wrong. Which I don't think anyone here can do. Lol, unless someone goes on a killing spree, then I can find out real fast. I don't mind hearing the similarities to Pagan traditions, that may be tied together. It is all a matter of opinion for you on which you believe.
I only wish that many christians could understand that is how many of us non-christians feel. We don't want to be told that we're wrong and our beliefs are false. I could care less what one person believes, just so long as they don't feel the need to force feed others their beliefs and judge us for refusing to conform to christianity.
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:47 AM   #84
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I only wish that many christians could understand that is how many of us non-christians feel. We don't want to be told that we're wrong and our beliefs are false. I could care less what one person believes, just so long as they don't feel the need to force feed others their beliefs and judge us for refusing to conform to christianity.
agreed
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:50 AM   #85
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So lets see what we agree on.

1. Christmas religious for most, but fun for all
2. No one likes others to "push" religion or lack-there-of on them
3. Motorcycles are cool
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:51 AM   #86
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So lets see what we agree on.

1. Christmas religious for most, but fun for all
2. No one likes others to "push" religion or lack-there-of on them
3. Motorcycles are cool
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:52 AM   #87
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oh and

4. lil mckee is the coolest
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:56 AM   #88
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And which it is STILL a Christian holiday. Go back and read what I said. I called it a Christian Holiday in my original post. Witchdoctor said it was funny it was called that and wanted to see where it was a Christian Holiday. You just helped my point. I don't think the debate ever said it had to be from the time that Jesus walked the earth, or where it originated. It is a CHURCH-SANCTIONED holiday which makes it a CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY.
I can't speak for witchdoctor, but I think the point he was trying to make is that it is not JUST a christian holiday....it's origins are pre-christianity therefore the christians don't have stake on it as "their" holiday, as with so many of the other holidays that were adapted out of pagan traditions. I myself mistook your comment in regards to it being a "christian holiday" as claiming that if we celebrate it, then we must be celebrating christian holidays. (I hope this makes sense lol....It's weeellll past my bedtime)

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So lets see what we agree on.

1. Christmas religious for most, but fun for all
2. No one likes others to "push" religion or lack-there-of on them
3. Motorcycles are cool
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:57 AM   #89
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And which it is STILL a Christian holiday. Go back and read what I said. I called it a Christian Holiday in my original post. Witchdoctor said it was funny it was called that and wanted to see where it was a Christian Holiday. You just helped my point. I don't think the debate ever said it had to be from the time that Jesus walked the earth, or where it originated. It is a CHURCH-SANCTIONED holiday which makes it a CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY.
it is a holiday that Christians celebrate along with other religions. Not just a christian holiday
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:58 AM   #90
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oh and

4. lil mckee is the coolest
I'll have to get back to you on that one.....

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I can't speak for witchdoctor, but I think the point he was trying to make is that it is not JUST a christian holiday....it's origins are pre-christianity therefore the christians don't have stake on it as "their" holiday, as with so many of the other holidays that were adapted out of pagan traditions. I myself mistook your comment in regards to it being a "christian holiday" as claiming that if we celebrate it, then we must be celebrating christian holidays. (I hope this makes sense lol....It's weeellll past my bedtime)



Seeing it that way, that would explain why non-Christian people find it ok to celebrate it. That would help answer my original question.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:03 AM   #91
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:04 AM   #92
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I'll have to get back to you on that one.....



Seeing it that way, that would explain why non-Christian people find it ok to celebrate it. That would help answer my original question.
Glad I could be of help

And on that note, it's bedtime for me....have a great day
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:12 AM   #93
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Glad I could be of help

And on that note, it's bedtime for me....have a great day
you too
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:55 AM   #94
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[QUOTE=cogs69;866975]
Again, an opinion. Not fact. Were you around in Pagan times? And have you seen the documents from Pagan times that prove these were traditions?


Read some books.
Just because *you* don't/didn't know, doesn't make it an opinion. The same argument is used against evolution and those that know little or nothing about it, tend to argue the strongest against it.

Book search on 'roman empire pagan'
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl...ns&btnG=Search


Quote:
Or could this be something (as which has been said about the scrolls and bible) that was created by someone who wanted to convert people away from Christianity?
Eh?
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:24 AM   #95
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[QUOTE=ArturoC;867101]
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Again, an opinion. Not fact. Were you around in Pagan times? And have you seen the documents from Pagan times that prove these were traditions?


Read some books.
Just because *you* don't/didn't know, doesn't make it an opinion. The same argument is used against evolution and those that know little or nothing about it, tend to argue the strongest against it.

Book search on 'roman empire pagan'
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl...ns&btnG=Search




Eh?
There is argument by non-christian people that these holidays were made from Pagan traditions to help convert people to Christianity. And also that the stories of the bible (Dead Sea Scrolls) was just stories that were twisted to create and it is all false beliefs.

Who is to say the books and longest writings of Pagan Traditions are false. And a person strong against Christianity wrote those to discredit Christianity and their beliefs? Maybe not all, maybe some, maybe not at all. But if we can't prove it, then how do you know for sure.
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:26 AM   #96
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Who is to say the books and longest writings of Pagan Traditions are false. And a person strong against Christianity wrote those to discredit Christianity and their beliefs?
well pagan's were first



and most of us dont agree with them either
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:28 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogs69 View Post

There is argument by non-christian people that these holidays were made from Pagan traditions to help convert people to Christianity. And also that the stories of the bible (Dead Sea Scrolls) was just stories that were twisted to create and it is all false beliefs.

Who is to say the books and longest writings of Pagan Traditions are false. And a person strong against Christianity wrote those to discredit Christianity and their beliefs? Maybe not all, maybe some, maybe not at all. But if we can't prove it, then how do you know for sure.

I would have to agree with that reasoning.
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:29 AM   #98
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oh and

4. lil mckee is the coolest
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:30 AM   #99
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yes plus one for the cool squad
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:31 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogs69 View Post
Who is to say the books and longest writings of Pagan Traditions are false. And a person strong against Christianity wrote those to discredit Christianity and their beliefs? Maybe not all, maybe some, maybe not at all. But if we can't prove it, then how do you know for sure.

Do you really believe that, or are you just playing devil's advocate?

No really.. seriously?

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

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