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Old 11-27-2007, 12:05 AM   #61
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Quote:
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so you would rather them drink real blood, and eat real flesh? im failing to see your point.
pagans used food and alcohol during their worshiping

christians used the story of the last supper, to form a tradition that pagans would be used to.
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:37 AM   #62
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pagans used food and alcohol during their worshiping

christians used the story of the last supper, to form a tradition that pagans would be used to.
and you base that on what exactly? a simple similarity? or some kind of historical documentation? please elaborate.
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:41 AM   #63
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a tradition told only to pagans until it became popular

the tv told me so i believe it

oh and truly studying many religions, not being "told" what other religion's believe by my religions leaders
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:58 AM   #64
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well, if the TV said so!!!
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Old 11-27-2007, 01:00 AM   #65
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yup animal channel has yet to fail me
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Old 11-27-2007, 01:05 AM   #66
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oh you graduated from cartoon network? sweet!
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Old 11-27-2007, 01:06 AM   #67
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oh you graduated from cartoon network? sweet!
yup full doctorate, masters of food network, and ethics degree from cnn
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Old 11-27-2007, 01:07 AM   #68
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CNN....boooooooooooooo! what the is this educational !
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Old 11-27-2007, 01:09 AM   #69
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CNN....boooooooooooooo! what the is this educational !
well like most colleges there has to be liberal
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Old 11-27-2007, 01:10 AM   #70
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this is true, this is true.
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:07 AM   #71
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To all those people that criticize this thread, do take note that it is 4 pages long and has had a lot of information in it. People have taken the time to research and discuss the whole topic. You are right, it is a usless thread. I don't study the bible like I'm supposed to anymore, and this just gives me reason to look things up. As for the other people in here also. Not only do I get to express my feelings on it, I get to hear the opinions and feelings of other Christians like me. Even ones that don't 100% agree with me. Also, I get to hear the opinions of non-believers and they have been so kind as to show structure behind why they feel they do.

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This is yet another retarded thread.
I don't care if your Christian or not. Christmas has very little to do with Christ's birthday anymore. Nor, did it when it was winter festivus long before christ.

Christians used pagan holidays, and some of there customs so it would be easier to convert them.

As they used food and alcohol to lure them as well, drinking wine for blood, and eating bread for body.
If you think it is a retarded thread, why have you even made an effort to include yourself in the discussion? I don't mind you showing your opinion, but it must not be retarded if you are putting your 2 cents in.

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I like to see where it says halloween is a christian holiday
I'm being lazy with this reply and will just show you what wikipedia says. If you look up Halloween, you will find it is the Eve of All Hallows Day. Here is what it says about All Hollows Day, aka All Saints Day.

All Saints' Day, All Hallows, Hallowmas ("hallows" meaning "saints," and "mas" meaning "Mass"), is a feast celebrated on November 1 or on the first Sunday after Pentecost in honour of all the saints, known and unknown. Halloween is the day preceding it, and is so named because it is "The Eve of All Hallows". All Saints is also a Catholic formula invoking all the faithful saints and martyrs, known or unknown. In terms of Catholic theology, the feast remembers all those who have attained the beatific vision in heaven, while the next day, All Souls' Day, commemorates the departed faithful who have not yet been purified and reached heaven.
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:14 AM   #72
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Quote:
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To all those people that criticize this thread, do take note that it is 4 pages long and has had a lot of information in it. People have taken the time to research and discuss the whole topic. You are right, it is a usless thread. I don't study the bible like I'm supposed to anymore, and this just gives me reason to look things up. As for the other people in here also. Not only do I get to express my feelings on it, I get to hear the opinions and feelings of other Christians like me. Even ones that don't 100% agree with me. Also, I get to hear the opinions of non-believers and they have been so kind as to show structure behind why they feel they do.



If you think it is a retarded thread, why have you even made an effort to include yourself in the discussion? I don't mind you showing your opinion, but it must not be retarded if you are putting your 2 cents in.



I'm being lazy with this reply and will just show you what wikipedia says. If you look up Halloween, you will find it is the Eve of All Hallows Day. Here is what it says about All Hollows Day, aka All Saints Day.

All Saints' Day, All Hallows, Hallowmas ("hallows" meaning "saints," and "mas" meaning "Mass"), is a feast celebrated on November 1 or on the first Sunday after Pentecost in honour of all the saints, known and unknown. Halloween is the day preceding it, and is so named because it is "The Eve of All Hallows". All Saints is also a Catholic formula invoking all the faithful saints and martyrs, known or unknown. In terms of Catholic theology, the feast remembers all those who have attained the beatific vision in heaven, while the next day, All Souls' Day, commemorates the departed faithful who have not yet been purified and reached heaven.

that's cute...nice you also left out the preceding paragraph to the wikipedia definition. which states

History

The modern holiday of Halloween may have its origins in the ancient Gaelic festival known as Samhain (pronounced /ˈsˠaunʲ/ from the Old Irish samain). The festival of Samhain is a celebration of the end of the harvest season in Gaelic culture, and is sometimes erroneously[2] regarded as the "Celtic New Year".[3] Traditionally, the festival was a time used by the ancient pagans to take stock of supplies and slaughter livestock for winter stores. The ancient Gaels believed that on October 31, the boundaries between the worlds of the living and the dead overlapped and the deceased would come back to life and cause havoc such as sickness or damaged crops. The festivals would frequently involve bonfires, where the bones of slaughtered livestock were thrown. Costumes and masks were also worn at the festivals in an attempt to mimic the evil spirits or placate them.[4][5] When the Romans occupied Celtic territory, several Roman traditions were also incorporated into the festivals. Feralia, a day celebrated in late October by the Romans for the passing of the dead as well as a festival which celebrated the Roman Goddess Pomona, the goddess of fruit were incorporated into the celebrations. The symbol of Pomona was an apple, which is a proposed origin for the tradition of bobbing for apples on Halloween.[6]
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:14 AM   #73
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If you think it is a retarded thread, why have you even made an effort to include yourself in the discussion? I don't mind you showing your opinion, but it must not be retarded if you are putting your 2 cents in.

My choice of using retarded probably wasn't right. Nor did I explain myself.

Your initial post is good, I'm always up for debates. But, people on both sides put of these "imaginary walls" that block everything they don't want to hear. That is why it is retarded.
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:15 AM   #74
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once again...christian religion absorbed pagan traditions to make conversion easier.
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:15 AM   #75
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that's cute...nice you also left out the preceding paragraph to the wikipedia definition. which states

History

The modern holiday of Halloween may have its origins in the ancient Gaelic festival known as Samhain (pronounced /ˈsˠaunʲ/ from the Old Irish samain). The festival of Samhain is a celebration of the end of the harvest season in Gaelic culture, and is sometimes erroneously[2] regarded as the "Celtic New Year".[3] Traditionally, the festival was a time used by the ancient pagans to take stock of supplies and slaughter livestock for winter stores. The ancient Gaels believed that on October 31, the boundaries between the worlds of the living and the dead overlapped and the deceased would come back to life and cause havoc such as sickness or damaged crops. The festivals would frequently involve bonfires, where the bones of slaughtered livestock were thrown. Costumes and masks were also worn at the festivals in an attempt to mimic the evil spirits or placate them.[4][5] When the Romans occupied Celtic territory, several Roman traditions were also incorporated into the festivals. Feralia, a day celebrated in late October by the Romans for the passing of the dead as well as a festival which celebrated the Roman Goddess Pomona, the goddess of fruit were incorporated into the celebrations. The symbol of Pomona was an apple, which is a proposed origin for the tradition of bobbing for apples on Halloween.[6]
my point exactly, thanks wd
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:18 AM   #76
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I do celebrate Christmas but .... wait Im not aethiest either...
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:25 AM   #77
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My choice of using retarded probably wasn't right. Nor did I explain myself.

Your initial post is good, I'm always up for debates. But, people on both sides put of these "imaginary walls" that block everything they don't want to hear. That is why it is retarded.

well said I am very open..I was raised christian. Then after the whole end of the world thing at the turn of the century that my parents kept insisting would happen. I got turned off. I started looking at other religions...I have looked at a few so far and I would like to look at several more in my time. I can say I am open minded...I just point out the facts of religious origins. Not debating on one verses another just trying to get people to make a more compelling argument for their religion. On a side note there is no compelling arguement for one over another...they all are off shoots from one or another.
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:27 AM   #78
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Quote:
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I'm being lazy with this reply and will just show you what wikipedia says. If you look up Halloween, you will find it is the Eve of All Hallows Day. Here is what it says about All Hollows Day, aka All Saints Day.

All Saints' Day, All Hallows, Hallowmas ("hallows" meaning "saints," and "mas" meaning "Mass"), is a feast celebrated on November 1 or on the first Sunday after Pentecost in honour of all the saints, known and unknown. Halloween is the day preceding it, and is so named because it is "The Eve of All Hallows". All Saints is also a Catholic formula invoking all the faithful saints and martyrs, known or unknown. In terms of Catholic theology, the feast remembers all those who have attained the beatific vision in heaven, while the next day, All Souls' Day, commemorates the departed faithful who have not yet been purified and reached heaven.
Ummm actually you need to dig a littttle bit further to unveil the entire story...:/:


"Halloween's origins date back to the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in).
The Celts, who lived 2,000 years ago in the area that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom, and northern France, celebrated their new year on November 1. This day marked the end of summer and the harvest and the beginning of the dark, cold winter, a time of year that was often associated with human death. Celts believed that on the night before the new year, the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead became blurred. On the night of October 31, they celebrated Samhain, when it was believed that the ghosts of the dead returned to earth. In addition to causing trouble and damaging crops, Celts thought that the presence of the otherworldly spirits made it easier for the Druids, or Celtic priests, to make predictions about the future. For a people entirely dependent on the volatile natural world, these prophecies were an important source of comfort and direction during the long, dark winter.
To commemorate the event, Druids built huge sacred bonfires, where the people gathered to burn crops and animals as sacrifices to the Celtic deities.
During the celebration, the Celts wore costumes, typically consisting of animal heads and skins, and attempted to tell each other's fortunes. When the celebration was over, they re-lit their hearth fires, which they had extinguished earlier that evening, from the sacred bonfire to help protect them during the coming winter.
By A.D. 43, Romans had conquered the majority of Celtic territory. In the course of the four hundred years that they ruled the Celtic lands, two festivals of Roman origin were combined with the traditional Celtic celebration of Samhain.
The first was Feralia, a day in late October when the Romans traditionally commemorated the passing of the dead. The second was a day to honor Pomona, the Roman goddess of fruit and trees. The symbol of Pomona is the apple and the incorporation of this celebration into Samhain probably explains the tradition of "bobbing" for apples that is practiced today on Halloween.
By the 800s, the influence of Christianity had spread into Celtic lands. In the seventh century, Pope Boniface IV designated November 1 All Saints' Day, a time to honor saints and martyrs. It is widely believed today that the pope was attempting to replace the Celtic festival of the dead with a related, but church-sanctioned holiday. The celebration was also called All-hallows or All-hallowmas (from Middle English Alholowmesse meaning All Saints' Day) and the night before it, the night of Samhain, began to be called All-hallows Eve and, eventually, Halloween. Even later, in A.D. 1000, the church would make November 2 All Souls' Day, a day to honor the dead. It was celebrated similarly to Samhain, with big bonfires, parades, and dressing up in costumes as saints, angels, and devils. Together, the three celebrations, the eve of All Saints', All Saints', and All Souls', were called Hallowmas."

here's the link http://www.history.com/minisite.do?c...1&mini_id=1076
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:27 AM   #79
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well said I am very open..I was raised christian. Then after the whole end of the world thing at the turn of the century that my parents kept insisting would happen. I got turned off. I started looking at other religions...I have looked at a few so far and I would like to look at several more in my time. I can say I am open minded...I just point out the facts of religious origins. Not debating on one verses another just trying to get people to make a more compelling argument for their religion. On a side note there is no compelling arguement for one over another...they all are off shoots from one or another.
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Old 11-27-2007, 08:30 AM   #80
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that's cute...nice you also left out the preceding paragraph to the wikipedia definition. which states

History

The modern holiday of Halloween may have its origins in the ancient Gaelic festival known as Samhain (pronounced /ˈsˠaunʲ/ from the Old Irish samain). The festival of Samhain is a celebration of the end of the harvest season in Gaelic culture, and is sometimes erroneously[2] regarded as the "Celtic New Year".[3] Traditionally, the festival was a time used by the ancient pagans to take stock of supplies and slaughter livestock for winter stores. The ancient Gaels believed that on October 31, the boundaries between the worlds of the living and the dead overlapped and the deceased would come back to life and cause havoc such as sickness or damaged crops. The festivals would frequently involve bonfires, where the bones of slaughtered livestock were thrown. Costumes and masks were also worn at the festivals in an attempt to mimic the evil spirits or placate them.[4][5] When the Romans occupied Celtic territory, several Roman traditions were also incorporated into the festivals. Feralia, a day celebrated in late October by the Romans for the passing of the dead as well as a festival which celebrated the Roman Goddess Pomona, the goddess of fruit were incorporated into the celebrations. The symbol of Pomona was an apple, which is a proposed origin for the tradition of bobbing for apples on Halloween.[6]
Remember, it isn't fact. It may have. Which also goes back to the fact that we use FAITH. There are a lot of traditions that the Pagans could have gotten from before their time. But nonetheless, Halloween still IS a Christian Holiday which you doubted. Where they got it from is a different debate. I can't prove that they did or didn't get it from Pagans. It has been written that it could have been, or may have been. Doesn't make it fact.

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My choice of using retarded probably wasn't right. Nor did I explain myself.

Your initial post is good, I'm always up for debates. But, people on both sides put of these "imaginary walls" that block everything they don't want to hear. That is why it is retarded.
I feel ya on that. I don't want to hear that Christianity is false. I don't want to believe that may not exist. Of course I don't. I can't prove that Christian Holidays weren't taken from the Pagans to help convert. I know what I feel, and I will continue to feel until it is proven to me that Christianity is wrong. Which I don't think anyone here can do. Lol, unless someone goes on a killing spree, then I can find out real fast. I don't mind hearing the similarities to Pagan traditions, that may be tied together. It is all a matter of opinion for you on which you believe.

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once again...christian religion absorbed pagan traditions to make conversion easier.
Again, an opinion. Not fact. Were you around in Pagan times? And have you seen the documents from Pagan times that prove these were traditions? Or could this be something (as which has been said about the scrolls and bible) that was created by someone who wanted to convert people away from Christianity?
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