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Old 11-26-2007, 01:55 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Faylaricia View Post
+1 to each.

Besides, most Christian traditions go back to pagan traditions, such as the Christmas tree.


the only tradition that interest me is Jesus was born, lived and died to save my sorry from ... thats plenty good enough for me... that is all..
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:03 PM   #22
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I thought this was another gixerbill thread, then i saw who actually started it.
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:03 PM   #23
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I thought this was another gixerbill thread, then i saw who actually started it.
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Old 11-26-2007, 02:24 PM   #24
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I thought this was another gixerbill thread, then i saw who actually started it.
That just ain't right....
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:03 PM   #25
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I don't think it makes you any less of an athiest or agnostic to celebrate christmas. It is a holiday associated with peace and giving gifts.

One of my favorite stories was when the germans and the americans stopped shooting and came out of their trenches to sing christmas carols and exchange what little they had at the time.

I for one believe the message of Christ to all of us. And also it is believed that he was born around september instead of december. But december is as good a time as any. At least we have set aside a day for Him. I really like the feeling of the holidays. Just a special time of the year.
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:13 PM   #26
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I don't think it makes you any less of an athiest or agnostic to celebrate christmas. It is a holiday associated with peace and giving gifts.

One of my favorite stories was when the germans and the americans stopped shooting and came out of their trenches to sing christmas carols and exchange what little they had at the time.

I for one believe the message of Christ to all of us. And also it is believed that he was born around september instead of december. But december is as good a time as any. At least we have set aside a day for Him. I really like the feeling of the holidays. Just a special time of the year.
I personally have not heard this before. Please explain, or go into more detail.
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:19 PM   #27
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I personally have not heard this before. Please explain, or go into more detail.
From what I heard, nobody really knows when Jesus was born so they somehow decided on December 24/25th. Not sure why, I think it had something to do with a pagan celebration they wanted to tie in to or does anyone know the reason why they picked that date?
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:25 PM   #28
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I personally have not heard this before. Please explain, or go into more detail.
Wikipedia to the rescue :

Christmas festivities often combine the commemoration of Jesus' birth with various secular customs, many of which have been influenced by earlier winter festivals. The date as a birthdate for Jesus is traditional, and is not considered to be his actual date of birth.

Pre-Christian origins
A winter festival has been a traditional festival in many cultures due to the winter solstice.[1] In part, the Christmas celebration was created by the early Church in order to entice pagan Romans to convert to Christianity without losing their own winter celebrations.[2][3] Most of the most important gods in the religions of Ishtar and Mithra had their birthdays on December 25. Various traditions are considered to have been syncretised from various winter festivals.

Christian origins
It is unknown exactly when or why December 25 became associated with Christ's birth. The New Testament does not give a specific date.

For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas ... or find a fancier resource.
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:29 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Faylaricia View Post
From what I heard, nobody really knows when Jesus was born so they somehow decided on December 24/25th. Not sure why, I think it had something to do with a pagan celebration they wanted to tie in to or does anyone know the reason why they picked that date?
I have read all that, and I have heard that before, but I have never heard September, so I am curious his reason why he believes it was in September? Can't say he is right or wrong since none of us were there and the bible doesn't say, I'm just curious what he has that makes him think September. Just interesting really.
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:33 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faylaricia View Post
Wikipedia to the rescue :

Christmas festivities often combine the commemoration of Jesus' birth with various secular customs, many of which have been influenced by earlier winter festivals. The date as a birthdate for Jesus is traditional, and is not considered to be his actual date of birth.

Pre-Christian origins
A winter festival has been a traditional festival in many cultures due to the winter solstice.[1] In part, the Christmas celebration was created by the early Church in order to entice pagan Romans to convert to Christianity without losing their own winter celebrations.[2][3] Most of the most important gods in the religions of Ishtar and Mithra had their birthdays on December 25. Various traditions are considered to have been syncretised from various winter festivals.

Christian origins
It is unknown exactly when or why December 25 became associated with Christ's birth. The New Testament does not give a specific date.

For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas ... or find a fancier resource.
Don't let gixxerbill know though...
It might upset hum.
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogs69 View Post
I personally have not heard this before. Please explain, or go into more detail.
In that region it get really cold in the month of december. So it is unlikely for a woman ready to give birth would be traveling much less shepherds tending to flocks out doors. See Luke 2:1-8
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It makes me cry, but real tears not the ones out of my like usual.
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:31 PM   #32
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Festivals have always been celebrated around the time of the solstice. Two thousand years before Christ, the early Mesopotamians celebrated a 12 day new year around that time, which is still reflected in our custom of the 12 Days of Christmas. Their chief , Marduk, was supposed to battle annually against the forces of chaos, which the Mesopotamians assumed were making the sunlight dwindle. The Mesopotamian King was supposed to be killed to go fight at Marduk's side. However, the king usually substituted a condemned prisoner and let him spend a day as the king. He was treated like the king for a day, then at the end of the day he was stripped and killed in the king's stead.

It is usually assumed that the historical Jesus was born in the Spring. It wasn't until around 350 AD that Caesar appointed 25 December to be The Mass of Christ, probably to coincide with the date of the Winter Solstice. The early Catholic Church concurred, probably in order to draw parishioners away from licentious pagan festivals occurring at about the same time of year. The Romans decked their halls with green laurels and trees decorated with candles. This feast, called Saturnalia, was a time for masquerades and feasts and the trading of presents, including "lucky fruits," the ancestor of today's fruitcake.

Christmas is a relatively unimportant holiday in the Christian liturgy (less important, for example, than the Feast of the Epiphany). Early Protestants, including the Puritans who settled in Plymouth, did not celebrate Christmas, which they denounced as Papist.

Many of the customs we have come to associate with Christmas developed in Victorian England, notably the Christmas Tree (which originated in Germany and was introduced in England by Prince Albert). The concept of Christmas as a family-centered celebration and a time of generosity, good will, and friendliness to neighbors, was promoted and codified by Charles Dickens in A Christmas Carol.

In the United States, the image of Santa Claus (i.e. Saint Nicholas) and his reindeer has been shaped by Clement Moore's poem, "A Visit from Saint Nicholas" (with the famous opening line "'Twas the night before Christmas.") In other countries, the depiction of Santa vary widely. For instance, in the Netherlands, Santa Claus is shown in a bishop's mitre.

In the United States, during the twentieth century, gift-giving assumed a greater and greater role, and by mid-century had become of great commercial importance, to the point where some felt the religious aspects were becoming forgotten. As Stan Freberg put it[1] in 1958, "There are two S's in Christmas and they're both dollar signs." The single week before Christmas currently accounts for 25% to 30% of all retail sales.



Yule:

Yule is a winter festival celebrated in Northern Europe since ancient times. In pre-Christian times, Germanic pagans celebrated Yule in late December or early January on a date determined by a lunar calendar.[1] During the process of Christianization and the adoption of the Julian calendar, Yule was placed on December 25, in order to correspond with the Christian celebrations later known in English as Christmas.[2] Thus, the terms "Yule" and "Christmas" are often used interchangeably[3], especially in Christmas carols.


Yule celebrations at the winter solstice predate the conversion to Christianity. It was, in pre-conversion times, the name of a feast celebrated by sacrifice on mid-winter night of January 12th according to the Norwegian historian Olav BÝ. [3] Though there are numerous references to Yule in the Icelandic sagas, there are few accounts of how Yule was actually celebrated, beyond the fact that it was a time for feasting. According to Adam of Bremen, the Swedish kings sacrificed male slaves every ninth year during the Yule sacrifices at the Temple at Uppsala. 'Yule-Joy', with dancing, continued through the Middle Ages in Iceland, but was frowned upon when the Reformation arrived. The custom of ritually slaughtering a boar on Yule survives in the modern tradition of the Christmas ham and the Boar's Head Carol.

Many of the symbols and motifs associated with the modern holiday of Christmas are derived from traditional pagan northern European Yule celebrations. The burning of the Yule log, the decorating of Christmas trees, the eating of ham, the hanging of boughs, holly, mistletoe, etc. are all historically practices associated with Yule. When the Christianization of the Germanic peoples began, missionaries found it convenient to provide a Christian reinterpretation of popular pagan holidays such as Yule and allow the celebrations themselves to go on largely unchanged, versus trying to confront and suppress them. The Scandinavian tradition of slaughtering a pig at Christmas (see Christmas ham) is probably salient evidence of this. The tradition is thought to be derived from the sacrifice of boars to the Freyr at the Yule celebrations. Halloween and aspects of Easter celebrations are likewise assimilated from northern European pagan festivals.




So the real question is to the christians. Why do YOU celebrate these traditions? Heathens!!
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Old 11-26-2007, 07:12 PM   #33
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out of left field comes Arturo with another good post!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:00 PM   #34
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Do what!? Where the do you people get this stuff from. Are you even religious? Right now I'm not sure I even want to get into this. But being Catholic I must say that Christmas did not come from any pagan tradition.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:04 PM   #35
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So how many of you celebrate Christmas? Exchange gifts? And why do you do that?

I have only met one aethiest person in my life that was TRULY aethiest. He did not celebrate Christmas, Halloween, Easter, or new years since they are all CHRISTIAN holidays. There was not any gift giving, decorations, or anything representing these holidays in his life.

So how many of you are hypocrites and celebrate these CHRISTIAN holidays anyways?

I like to see where it says halloween is a christian holiday
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:11 PM   #36
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Quote:
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Do what!? Where the do you people get this stuff from. Are you even religious?

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Right now I'm not sure I even want to get into this. But being Catholic I must say that Christmas did not come from any pagan tradition.

Sorry charlie. 'tis true.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:13 PM   #37
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Do what!? Where the do you people get this stuff from. Are you even religious? Right now I'm not sure I even want to get into this. But being Catholic I must say that Christmas did not come from any pagan tradition.
oh yes it did...sorry
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:39 PM   #38
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sigh! there is more to the catholic religion than you'll ever find on the internet.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:47 PM   #39
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i've celebrated it every year so far, but i think i might just go to a motel with a bottle of booze this X-mas
christmas depresses the out of me for some reason. i sincerely hate it.
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:47 PM   #40
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sigh! there is more to the catholic religion than you'll ever find on the internet.
I don't deny that. but the fact remains that pagan religion was around long before chrisitanity and some traditions were absorbed to convert followers easier. For example...what does a rabbit and colorful eggs have to do with jesus? In the pagan religions it was the rabbit and eggs a sign for fertility and the bright colors came from the spring ritual(maypole).
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