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Old 11-21-2007, 04:16 PM   #121
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Seriously... I think we had a good back and forth discussion... I wish all of you all the best for the holidays and I hope to meet all of ya'll once... maybe one of ya'll will have ONE OF THOSE bikes that are just being borrowed indefenitely...
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Old 11-21-2007, 04:18 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denhou1974 View Post
They were targeting common people who didn't feel like walking anymore and "found" a bicycle.
You have got to be kidding me. No wait, I can see that you're not since you've repeated that like 10 times. I'll make it simple: IT IS WRONG TO TAKE SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU. PEOPLE WHO DO THIS MAY GET ARRESTED BECAUSE IT IS WRONG.
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They used a $3K bike so that they would have the ability to charge someone with a felony.
What is wrong with that??? On your earlier posts, your concern was fiscal responsibility, now you're all benevolent and are worried about it being a felony for the poor theif?
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I'd either park a bike at a bike rack, lay it in someone's front yard, or chain it up somewhere and wait for someone to STEAL it.
Fair enough. Guess what, they do that too. Ever notice a bike parked at a bike rack at a school after hours or something? Think that may be a little fishy? Look an awful lot like a setup?
What's the difference of setting up for a thief in a yard or the sidewalk? Why does it matter so much to you where they left the bike?

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I'm not dodging anything. My source is the TV show. Seasons 1-20 of COPS are available if you'd like to rent them and find out which one it is. You guys are me off with this "I always side with the law BS". Often times the law is not just and it's up to the people to question it.
So you're saying that on the show, they said "Yeah, we just bought this bike for $3k and now we're going to use it as bait..."

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Depends on your definition of 'take'. Like you said, if you saw a gold watch laying on the ground would you pick it up? If you did would it be theft? What if you did pick it up and the police jumped out and told you that you were under arrest for theft of police property? Would that change your opinion?
If I found a watch? First thing I would do is go to whatever occupancy is closest to me and see if it belonged to someone there. If it didn't, I would bring it to my local LEA and turn it in. That's the right thing to do. Didn't you learn that in Kindergarten like everyone else? You see the reason I am confused is because I think of what the right thing to do is. You keep defending vermin and try to exemplify why it's so wrong that these people get arrested for doing the wrong thing.
If I picked it up, looked around to see if anyone saw me, and then put the watch in my pocket intending to keep it- I would get what I deserved if the cops jumped out to arrest me- because taking that is the wrong thing to do. If they wrongfully accused me, I'll have my day in court.

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Everything belongs to someone at some point in time. At what point does it become 'finders keepers'?
After you've exhausted every avenue and opportunity to find the rightful owner, I would say that then you could say "finder's keepers". If you approve of keeping ill-gotten material things, and you can sleep at night that way that is...
It's almost as if you're trying to find a way to keep something that doesn't belong to you or something.
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I'll side with obsession of intellegent discourse.
OK, let's visit that. By your statements, "intelligent discourse" means that if something is left un-attended, you can take it. You're right, that is intelligent.
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Old 11-21-2007, 04:22 PM   #123
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Old 11-21-2007, 04:24 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoPoRiderRR View Post
Seriously... I think we had a good back and forth discussion... I wish all of you all the best for the holidays and I hope to meet all of ya'll once... maybe one of ya'll will have ONE OF THOSE bikes that are just being borrowed indefenitely...
I with you, I hope I don't see any of yall while I'm at work. Especially during the Holidays.
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Old 11-21-2007, 04:25 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoPoRiderRR View Post
Seriously... I think we had a good back and forth discussion... I wish all of you all the best for the holidays and I hope to meet all of ya'll once... maybe one of ya'll will have ONE OF THOSE bikes that are just being borrowed indefenitely...

Yes, same to you and your family. Enjoy your time off if you have any...
Happy T-day.
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Old 11-21-2007, 04:26 PM   #126
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Old 11-21-2007, 04:49 PM   #127
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to generalize or stereotype anybody(cops in this situation) is very immature and pathetic.
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Old 11-21-2007, 05:07 PM   #128
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"Depends on your definition of 'take'. Like you said, if you saw a gold watch laying on the ground would you pick it up? If you did would it be theft? What if you did pick it up and the police jumped out and told you that you were under arrest for theft of police property? Would that change your opinion? "

I think Popo pretty much hit on it it... and looks all of what he said was COMMON SENSE.

If I pick up a watch laying in BFE with no on/no where around vs the entrance or inside a store, my actions beyond picking the watch up are likely to be different aren't they?
There's also a bit of a difference with a watch laying in the parking lot or the sidewalk in front of a store and a bicycle too isn't there?
...and I bet ya the PD's re-action to what I did in that situation would depend on my actions AFTER I picked up the watch and not as soon as I picked it up.

Common sense & intelligent thought... it's amazing what happens when you actually use it.
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Old 11-21-2007, 05:24 PM   #129
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"Common sense & intelligent thought... it's amazing what happens when you actually use it."

Not gonna happen. Today's society is too far gone with all the "poor me" and "you owe me" attitudes. That's why this country is in the state it is in now, and will get far worse before it gets any better.

Cops have a thankless job, just like the GI's overseas. All you hear is all the bad things and dumb things that 1% of them do, and little to none of the good stuff that happens day in and day out.

And 99% of the time I see someone griping about the cops on here, the thread starts with "I was just doing mph, or we were just playing around in a private parking lot at 2 am, etc, etc".... why's the man trying to keep me down?

Dunno about you, but I was raised to be responsible for my actions, and that if and when I choose to break a law, I am on my own. Nobodies fault but mine.

Whether you agree with the law or not, your's isn't to choose to ignore and thumb your nose at authority when they have to enforce it. I imagine 99% of the cops think we have some stupid laws, and they are frustrated, but they have rules as well.

A lawless society is anarchy. Try walking down the street in Baghdad and see how no rule or law suits you.
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Old 11-21-2007, 05:39 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texlurch View Post
"Common sense & intelligent thought... it's amazing what happens when you actually use it."

Not gonna happen. Today's society is too far gone with all the "poor me" and "you owe me" attitudes. That's why this country is in the state it is in now, and will get far worse before it gets any better.

Cops have a thankless job, just like the GI's overseas. All you hear is all the bad things and dumb things that 1% of them do, and little to none of the good stuff that happens day in and day out.

And 99% of the time I see someone griping about the cops on here, the thread starts with "I was just doing mph, or we were just playing around in a private parking lot at 2 am, etc, etc".... why's the man trying to keep me down?

Dunno about you, but I was raised to be responsible for my actions, and that if and when I choose to break a law, I am on my own. Nobodies fault but mine.

Whether you agree with the law or not, your's isn't to choose to ignore and thumb your nose at authority when they have to enforce it. I imagine 99% of the cops think we have some stupid laws, and they are frustrated, but they have rules as well.

A lawless society is anarchy. Try walking down the street in Baghdad and see how no rule or law suits you.
Agreed, that isn't my what I hold against our fine LEO's. My problem is sitting on the highway waiting for somebody in a hurry so they can get a little extra money for the city.
I have not had a ticket for speeding since 2000 and I have not been pulled over the police since 2004. I see them everyday lurking at intersections waiting, preying on the public. You say they are making the streets safe, I say they are generating revenue on the public at large and are only there for the revenue.
They are tools. They go through psychological screening for the job. Not to find ones with a strong since of morality, but a flexible since of morality that will prey on the general public. You have to be different to do that for a living.
This is my Grievance with LEO's as I see it in my daily life.
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Old 11-21-2007, 06:08 PM   #131
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Agreed, that isn't my what I hold against our fine LEO's. My problem is sitting on the highway waiting for somebody in a hurry so they can get a little extra money for the city.
I have not had a ticket for speeding since 2000 and I have not been pulled over the police since 2004. I see them everyday lurking at intersections waiting, preying on the public. You say they are making the streets safe, I say they are generating revenue on the public at large and are only there for the revenue.
They are tools. They go through psychological screening for the job. Not to find ones with a strong since of morality, but a flexible since of morality that will prey on the general public. You have to be different to do that for a living.
I didn't agree with you on a lot of your opinions since you showed up on this site, but I didn't think you were dumb. Unfortunately, the above comments don't justify my opinion.

Traffic enforcement saves lives, like it or not. While it takes in penalties paid, it isn't like Houston exists solely on traffic fines. You can whine all you want about traffic enforcement, it's there for your safety. If you can't control your driving and speed, you deserve a ticket. Suck it up and take it like a man, or fight it in court.

Psychological screening happens on lots of jobs. Your "explanation" of why PD gets it is a HUUUUGE jump. Who do you get your conspiracy theories from? That could be the most ridiculous thing I have read on this forum to date. I regret responding to it... almost.
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Old 11-21-2007, 06:49 PM   #132
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"Prey on the general public"???

Too much Orsen Wells I think?

Law Enforcement. They enforce the "law" (Say it like Sylvester in Judge Dredd).

If you don't agree with the laws, get up and do something to change them.
Run for office.
Goes back to what I said before, this country is fast becoming a society of whiners who wring their hands over all the "unjust" infringements on their "rights", but do nothing about it.

I don't like speed limits. I understand the reasoning behind them.
I think the cops time could be better spent rounding up all the illegal aliens who are commiting more and more crimes these days.

But the same "whiners" would say quit picking on the illegals, they are just trying to make a living. Another topic all together.
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Old 11-21-2007, 07:08 PM   #133
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Germany has had autobahns without speed limits for years and guess what, they still work. Our highway system is leaps and bounds ahead of theirs but we still think that we need cops on every corner to CONTROL people and their speeds.
I drive in other counties around the world on a regular basis and I don't see law enforcement like I do in the US and I don't see as many accidents either.
Give me a break!

It is psychologically proven that negative punishment (tickets) does/will not deter negative behaviour (speeding). You should have learned this in Psychology 101.
Never once in all my years of driving have I ever had a cop once stop me and tell me how good a job I am doing while driving.

It is true that their time does need to be spent protecting the public and I contribute to the Highway Patrol every year in memory of the time that they have saved my life delivering medicine from one hostipal to another.
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Old 11-21-2007, 07:20 PM   #134
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One day I was doing 90mph in 60mph zone. I was in a hurry because I am late for work or whatever. There was something on the road and I had to swerve to avoid it. A car next to me moved out of my way avoid hitting me and crashed into a SUV and that SUV flipped and the kids inside sustained major injuries. If I wasn't speeding would it happen?

This is just a scenerio why traffic enforcements is needed, to protect innocents from asshats that breaks the law. Laws is made to keep orderly, and peace, not meant to be broken as the pessimist looks at. Ignorant of moral values will result in penalties not worth paying, like in a case of a bike left in front/side of a building.
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Old 11-21-2007, 07:24 PM   #135
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Germany has had autobahns without speed limits for years and guess what, they still work. Our highway system is leaps and bounds ahead of theirs but we still think that we need cops on every corner to CONTROL people and their speeds.
I drive in other counties around the world on a regular basis and I don't see law enforcement like I do in the US and I don't see as many accidents either.
Give me a break!

It is psychologically proven that negative punishment (tickets) does/will not deter negative behaviour (speeding). You should have learned this in Psychology 101.
Never once in all my years of driving have I ever had a cop once stop me and tell me how good a job I am doing while driving.

It is true that their time does need to be spent protecting the public and I contribute to the Highway Patrol every year in memory of the time that they have saved my life delivering medicine from one hostipal to another.
You're right, tickets is too minor for this type of offense. Would you think that if you are caught with speeding, cutting your hand or feet would help people learned? I guess that this is too drastic of punishment, huh? How do you preferred to be punished if you are caught with a violation?
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Old 11-21-2007, 07:39 PM   #136
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One day I was doing 90mph in 60mph zone. I was in a hurry because I am late for work or whatever. There was something on the road and I had to swerve to avoid it. A car next to me moved out of my way avoid hitting me and crashed into a SUV and that SUV flipped and the kids inside sustained major injuries. If I wasn't speeding would it happen?

This is just a scenerio why traffic enforcements is needed, to protect innocents from asshats that breaks the law. Laws is made to keep orderly, and peace, not meant to be broken as the pessimist looks at. Ignorant of moral values will result in penalties not worth paying, like in a case of a bike left in front/side of a building.
A personal friend had an accident simular to yours. There were no other parties involved and they struck an object in the road. She flipped her SUV. It was nice of the police to wait in the hospital until she was coherent enough to issue the ticket.
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Old 11-21-2007, 07:44 PM   #137
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You're right, tickets is too minor for this type of offense. Would you think that if you are caught with speeding, cutting your hand or feet would help people learned? I guess that this is too drastic of punishment, huh? How do you preferred to be punished if you are caught with a violation?
How about positive reinforcment? That is what most fortune 500 companies do and it has proven effective.
How about a discount on local taxes?
How about community improvement for areas that have lower violations?

My point is that their are more effective ways to get the public to adhere to safety rules than negative reinforcements. The PD's seem to be stuck on this one. If it doesn't work, figure something else out!
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Old 11-21-2007, 07:55 PM   #138
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I didn't agree with you on a lot of your opinions since you showed up on this site, but I didn't think you were dumb. Unfortunately, the above comments don't justify my opinion.

Traffic enforcement saves lives, like it or not. While it takes in penalties paid, it isn't like Houston exists solely on traffic fines. You can whine all you want about traffic enforcement, it's there for your safety. If you can't control your driving and speed, you deserve a ticket. Suck it up and take it like a man, or fight it in court.

Psychological screening happens on lots of jobs. Your "explanation" of why PD gets it is a HUUUUGE jump. Who do you get your conspiracy theories from? That could be the most ridiculous thing I have read on this forum to date. I regret responding to it... almost.
Punishment teaches fear, fear leads to resentment of the administor of the punishment and does not instill respect. Only positive reinforcement does.
There is more than one tool in the tool box.

As far as the testing: Yes, most companies do it. The PD is just looking for a specific profile that can perform that job. I don't hold it against LEO's that the local government is getting them to do what they want by phasing it as protect instead of control. That is how they get you to accept it, it is not your fault.
It is no different when I was in Irqa, they phrased it the same way. I was young (and dumb) enough to buy it.

Considering the above, it is not hard to see why we don't agree on many of today's issues.
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Old 11-21-2007, 07:55 PM   #139
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How about positive reinforcment? That is what most fortune 500 companies do and it has proven effective.
How about a discount on local taxes?
How about community improvement for areas that have lower violations?

My point is that their are more effective ways to get the public to adhere to safety rules than negative reinforcements. The PD's seem to be stuck on this one. If it doesn't work, figure something else out!
They can only do so much with the budget, that's why they need to take more revenue from law breaker. The govt is always out for improvement, look at our highways, its bigger and wider and look at the art work on the bridge column.
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Old 11-21-2007, 08:01 PM   #140
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Quote:
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Punishment teaches fear, fear leads to resentment of the administor of the punishment and does not instill respect. Only positive reinforcement does.
There is more than one tool in the tool box.

As far as the testing: Yes, most companies do it. The PD is just looking for a specific profile that can perform that job. I don't hold it against LEO's that the local government is getting them to do what they want by phasing it as protect instead of control. That is how they get you to accept it, it is not your fault.
It is no different when I was in Irqa, they phrased it the same way. I was young (and dumb) enough to buy it.

Considering the above, it is not hard to see why we don't agree on many of today's issues.
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