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Old 11-21-2007, 09:30 AM   #41
Oskar_Z28
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As far as suspension goes, I've used both Penske rear and now Ohlins rear, and I have been extremely happy with both. The key is (like ohters pointed out) to have the suspension set up correctly by competent specialists.

I had Penske set up by Marcus McBain when he was still in business, and the bike rode very well. As far as front goes, again on my last bike (GSXR600) I had Marcus do the work, and I was happy with it.

On my bike now (SV650), I picked up a set of used forks and an Ohlins from a WERA board couple years ago from a guy who is about the same size as me. This suspension was built by Thermosman with (I think) Racetech internals. I have been very happy with the setup from the time I bolted it right on my bike and I actually haven't tweaked with it at all. Just bolted up and it works well. If I messed with it, I would probably make it worse. Now after 2 years, the shock probably needs reworking as it's getting little soft, and the forks need new seals. I don't know who will I get to service these parts yet.
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Old 11-21-2007, 10:01 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post

Now you want a full race exhaust system, a high flow air filter and a mapping device to get the most from a stock engine.
Where do you guys go to get it set up on a Dyno ?? Who would you recommend ??
I’m not interested in peak power claims,
I’d want a nice smooth torquey (relative!) power delivery with little or no flat spots.
As always I thankyou all for your input.
What bike?
If it's the 636 (I'm guessing by your avatar), I only have limited experience, however, the top racers are getting the best numbers and support from Leo Vince. You'll pay for it, but it's worth every penny. Leo Vince, with M4 (local Texas company) as a close second. In my limited experience, the other brands after those are pretty well the same.

BMC for filter, or K&N. I prefer BMC as they have consistently given better dyno numbers for me on my bikes.

A good tuner can get good numbers for you from just about any set up, for dyno work, I would go to Andy before ALL others (Metric Motorcycles www.metricmotorcycles.com). Andy is incredibly meticulous, and does fantastic dyno work. You can also go to Northwest Honda for dyno work, but I'd only let them do the mapping if Corky is doing the work. The chances that he'll do your work is slim-none unless you know him though. I go to Metric because I'll spend my Saturday as he lets me watch while he runs the dyno, asking me where I want the bike set up (power delivery, throttle response, etc).

In order:
Leo Vince exhaust = $$ but worth every penny
BMC filter
Metric Motorcycles for dyno tuning

Regarding exhaust, I believe you can get really good numbers from just about every major brand exhaust as a full setup, as opposed to a slip-on. You may see no hp gains with a slip-on.

All that said, I wouldn't spend a dollar on any of the above until I had a great helmet, great set of leathers/ boots/ gloves/ back protector. I'd stick with a slip-on exhaust over a full system, though the hp gains would be negligible at best. In our racing series, hp is only a fraction of the reason people go fast, a couple hp difference isn't going to do a whole lot for you or against you. Now the really fast guys... is a whole 'nother issue.

On my GSXR600, I got the best dyno numbers off my stock engine with a full Yoshimura Duplex exhaust and BMC filter. This was BMC compared to K&N with the same exhaust.
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Old 11-21-2007, 10:33 AM   #43
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On our '05 636 we gained the most power from an M4 system over both Leo Vince and Akrapovic.
It wsn't a bunch, but it was significant enough to offer us an advantage in the mid-range.


Over the years we've built multiple championship winning racebikes, and we even have a few AMA #1 race plates hanging up, so I guess we're pretty qualified.


I use Northwest Honda's dyno for all of our tuning work, although Andy at Metric does good work as well.

If you're in Dallas, Steve Upchurch or Jimmy Cambora are the guys to go see, and their business is primarily racing.


Work at the shop has been busy, so I pulled back from personally attending all of the races this past season.

However, Brandon, my second in command, is at all of the CMRA races, as well as quite a few of the trackdays.

He's very qualified to set up / tune in your suspension and it also doesn't hurt that he's one of the fastest guys in the CMRA either! (top 7 this year)


Your direction has changed a bit since your initial post. It's gone from just doing trackdays to all out racing.


In the end, the question you will have to answer is this; Are you doing track days for enjoyment and to enhance your skill level for the street.

Or, are you using them to hone your skills with the intent of racing, and if you are plannig on racing, at what level of competiton are you planning on?


The answers to those question will help dictate what you will need and how much you'll need to spend to get where you want to go.


In racing and bike set up, there's more than one way to skin a cat, pick a tuner you're comfortable with and can have good communication with, and proceed from there.


One last bit of wisdom passed down to me years ago when I was just a novice racer;

"Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?"
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Old 11-21-2007, 01:46 PM   #44
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Quote:
Your direction has changed a bit since your initial post. It's gone from just doing trackdays to all out racing.
Not really Patrick,
I’ve no intention of racing but I love the thought of using what spare time I have to attend as many trackdays as my commitments/finances will allow.
My original plan was to bring a “sorted” bike over from the UK with me but having done a little homework on my trip to Houston in the summer and with the exchange rate so favourable, this makes no sense at all.
I’ve learned over the years that club racers generally seem to use equipment that works and is cost effective.
I’m not a lottery winner so this is important to me.
National racing is more difficult to gauge I think due to the politics of sponsorship, the restrictive price of the very top end performance goodies and the allocation pecking order (ie.the Dunlop’s/Pirellis a factory SuperSport team use are far removed from those that most of us can buy over the counter) and thus the picture becomes more cloudy which is why I’ve directed my questions more towards club riders.
Whilst a “sorted” bike is no substitute for pure natural talent there surely can be no question that it helps, both in the riders mind and in his ability to physically soak up whatever a given track has to throw at him.
Lets be honest here, in the pursuit of quick lap times how many of us can actually ride any of the latest 600/1000cc Sports bikes to their limit. I can’t but I can afford to make it easier and safer for myself by modifying and enhancing the bike under me.
Plus I’m a guy, don’t we all love a bit of “bling” ???
Ever used a Brembo master cylinder, yeh and I’ll have another one, they’re awesome.
Ever ridden a bike set up exclusively for your weight and not some manufacturers mean and suspended on some quality sussies, right, and I loved it.
Ever ridden with a quick shifter and a kit gear box, You bet,
f#cking hated it and won’t use one again just checking your paying attention

It’s not uncommon in the UK now to see ex factory Superbikes being used as trackday “toys” and good luck to them. A nice toy if you can afford it.
Many (not all) track bikes you see now are ex club race bikes and have race fairing kits, rearsets, trick suspension, up rated brakes, sticky tyres, tyre warmers, full systems, WOW etc and good luck to them all.
We are continents apart and perhaps it’s not the norm over there for an enthusiastic trackdayer to have a prepped bike in the same way as over here it’s very rare (other than in a one make series and even then some of those are blue printed and run trick head gaskets) for a race bike to have a stock engine.

I’ve worked hard for my dollar and I don’t want to it unnecessarily hence the groundwork/preparation I’m doing now with your help. Finding this site was a godsend.
Plus the more wisely I spend on the bike the more left over I have to learn how to water-ski properly !!!
This is not a rant at you Patrick, far from it, your helpful concise answers and the regularity with which your name appears in glowing context (and I’m not blowing smoke up you’re a#se) means I will seek you out when the time comes.

One other consideration is that while I don’t consider myself to be a very quick rider, more an enthusiastic one, some of my UK pals are and I’m thinking that when they come over to visit they’ll have a well sorted bike to ride which can only add to their enjoyment of Texas.


Thanks tomLSTD for another very helpful post. Duly noted.

My own words of wisdom passed down to me by my old man if I may,
"All that glitters is not gold"
"You can never ever please everyone all of the time"
and probably the most useful, "Nice on the phone, add 4 stone"

PS Not that I’m one to split hairs but that’s an 05 ZX10R in the avatar photo, but that’ll change
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Old 11-21-2007, 03:35 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
National racing is more difficult to gauge I think due to the politics of sponsorship, the restrictive price of the very top end performance goodies and the allocation pecking order (ie.the Dunlop’s/Pirellis a factory SuperSport team use are far removed from those that most of us can buy over the counter) and thus the picture becomes more cloudy which is why I’ve directed my questions more towards club riders.
Not necessarily true though... some of the most heated debates you'll get in to are about tires and oil. You can tell the club racers that get support from companies, some get "full support" with free rubber and what not. Try to discuss rationally their reasons for not liking or liking a brand. You'd think some of them are paid spokesmen!
You'll enjoy the tracks here and around here. Some tracks, like Cresson, have a temperamental nature, great traction in most cases, but can eat tires quickly. A good tire there will make a believer of you for the brand you choose. In my experience, Bridgestone is the only brand that worked for us there, not to mention at Texas World Speedway, we won an 8 hour endurance race on 1 set of Bridgestones. That sold us alone. We were able to run top lap times and still have rubber left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
Ever ridden with a quick shifter and a kit gear box, You bet,
f#cking hated it and won’t use one again just checking your paying attention
, I love mine! Wanna get rid of yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post

My own words of wisdom passed down to me by my old man if I may,
"All that glitters is not gold"
"You can never ever please everyone all of the time"
and probably the most useful, "Nice on the phone, add 4 stone"
Those words of wisdom are as true here as they are abroad!

Look forward to meeting you when you arrive!
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Old 11-21-2007, 09:26 PM   #46
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Trackbikes are for those who are afraid to ride their streetbikes on the track!!!



Or is it that people like me are just too cheap to buy a dedicated trackbike?



Grinchy, when you get here to Houston send a message and we can all get together and do some bench racing.

No matter who you chose to tune your bike, buy your parts from or do trackdays with... you're entering into a fantastic sportbike community here. This website has really brought alot of people together and has really facilitated the growth of the sport in Houston quite significantly. We're very lucky to have several great shops, tuners and suppliers here and we're glad you're coming over to join in the fun!
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Old 11-22-2007, 01:12 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve O Chap View Post
...
Or is it that people like me are just too cheap to buy a dedicated trackbike?
...

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Old 11-22-2007, 02:18 AM   #48
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Question: On colder weather, do you run higher psi or lower psi?

Quoting Patrick:

Tires: Most bikes work well on the track with 30-32 psi. front, and 28-30 psi. rear, cold. What you are looking for is a 4-6 psi. "grow" in pressure after you come of the track.

Does the weather even affect the riding ability? I assume the colder the ground, the more psi you lose but i'm wondering if its such a big deal or can i still run what Patrick recommends?
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Old 11-22-2007, 02:36 AM   #49
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Thanks guys, looking forward to meeting a whole bunch of you.

In the meantime, checkout my new trackbike on Ebay……..

Item number: 290184221865

What do you think ?????????

I'm told the servicing costs are a teeny weeny bit higher than normal !!












If only (dream dream dream)
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:52 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
Thanks guys, looking forward to meeting a whole bunch of you.

In the meantime, checkout my new trackbike on Ebay……..

Item number: 290184221865

What do you think ?????????

I'm told the servicing costs are a teeny weeny bit higher than normal !!

If only (dream dream dream)
that there is an awesome bike however, i think it may be too much for our tracks here, with the exception of Texas World Speedway which happens to be our fastest track.

The maintenance cost' are a WEE bit higher on those, you gotta think about replacement parts for something like that as well. are some of those parts 1 off?? if so, may be hard finding replacements. However, the other side of the maintenance issue, there are only a couple people i would allow to work on a ducati in the houston area. I do have a little something you could test ride and possibly buy tho.
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Old 11-22-2007, 09:36 AM   #51
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Quote:
that there is an awesome bike however, i think it may be too much for our tracks here, with the exception of Texas World Speedway which happens to be our fastest track.

The maintenance cost' are a WEE bit higher on those, you gotta think about replacement parts for something like that as well. are some of those parts 1 off?? if so, may be hard finding replacements. However, the other side of the maintenance issue, there are only a couple people i would allow to work on a ducati in the houston area. I do have a little something you could test ride and possibly buy tho.
Something is being lost in the translation lol
The
Quote:
If only (dream dream dream)
at the bottom of my post I thought indicated that I was just an admirer of the bike and could only dream of owning something so special !!
I think you may be mistaking me for a member of the “get a load of me” gang lol
It intrigued me that something so “exotic” and so “exclusive” would be advertised on Ebay and simply wanted to share it with others !!
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Old 11-22-2007, 10:13 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
Something is being lost in the translation lol
The at the bottom of my post I thought indicated that I was just an admirer of the bike and could only dream of owning something so special !!
I think you may be mistaking me for a member of the “get a load of me” gang lol
It intrigued me that something so “exotic” and so “exclusive” would be advertised on Ebay and simply wanted to share it with others !!
i noticed the "dream" portion. it is a very nice bike indeed but, i think that type of power alone is too much for any track round here. And, as you said earlier, there aren't too many people who can tap into all of the power that even a 600cc bike has to offer.
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Old 11-22-2007, 01:03 PM   #53
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Save for TWS (Texas World Speedway), I don't see a 1000cc bike being much of an advantage at any other track... except maybe for the bestest of the bestest.
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Old 11-22-2007, 01:07 PM   #54
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Did some one ring.......?

lol
nice.
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Old 11-22-2007, 01:37 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
Thanks guys, looking forward to meeting a whole bunch of you.

In the meantime, checkout my new trackbike on Ebay……..

Item number: 290184221865

What do you think ?????????

I'm told the servicing costs are a teeny weeny bit higher than normal !!






If only (dream dream dream)


, mang, I thought you said you were no lottery winner? Can you get me one too? Maybe you will get a cheaper price for a group deal. LOL.

If you are checking eBay, check this one out...something for these areas:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuk...WDVW#mainImage
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Old 11-22-2007, 04:39 PM   #56
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Quote:
On my bike now (SV650), I picked up a set of used forks and an Ohlins from a WERA board couple years ago from a guy who is about the same size as me.
Hi Oskar_Z28, sort of missed your post there, sorry.
Thanks for your input.
Do you run SV650’s in a one make race series over there ???
Over here we have the Minitwin championship which is 95% SV650s.
Closest racing you’ll see a lot of the time and some of the lap times are unbelievable !!

Quote:
, mang, I thought you said you were no lottery winner? Can you get me one too? Maybe you will get a cheaper price for a group deal. LOL.

Nah, no chance, that’s GSE Airwaves Ducati you’re dealing with there, not Spearmint Gentlemen’s Club
Bike in your link looks good, cheers, but I’m not buying till I get there cause I need to see her in the flesh so to speak ……………….

I understand it’s Thanksgiving Stateside today so from a cold, wet, dark England,
ENJOY
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Old 11-22-2007, 05:58 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
Hi Oskar_Z28, sort of missed your post there, sorry.
Thanks for your input.
Do you run SV650’s in a one make race series over there ???
Over here we have the Minitwin championship which is 95% SV650s.
Closest racing you’ll see a lot of the time and some of the lap times are unbelievable !!

Oscar hasn't raced the SV class with us yet, but to answer your question, yes, we do have a couple of classes that are cookie cutter classes for the SV.

There are 3 sprint classes and one endurance class for the SV. In the endurance class, you'll find *mostly* only SVs. In sprints, you'll have motards and some 2 stroke GP chassis 250s mixed in there. Mostly SVs though.

I have the time of my life racing SVs in endurance. Hands down, best bang for the racing buck IMHO. We use one set of tires per race (event the 8 hour ), fuel is about 3 gallons per hour (even with our "breathed on" ~80hp engine), and the bike is virtually indestructable when crashed (though I have tried...). With the engine work done to our bike, I easily run with most of the 600s except the really fast guys.
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:21 PM   #58
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Actually there are 4 sprint classes
Superstock D
Superbike D
Lightweight Twins
Formula 2

If your a old fart
Formula 40 Lightweight

John
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Old 11-23-2007, 03:22 AM   #59
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Yea, the “Minitwins” is a race I make sure I’m track side for.
Restricted to 72BHP over here though which is tested trackside. Another series called ThunderBikes allows big bore kits etc and more tuning.
Some of the guys with bigger budgets fit GSXR & Ducati race bodywork and under seat exhausts, they look the muts nuts.
When I learn how to post up a photo I’ll show you.

Quote:
There are 3 sprint classes and one endurance class for the SV. In the endurance class, you'll find *mostly* only SVs. In sprints, you'll have motards and some 2 stroke GP chassis 250s mixed in there. Mostly SVs though.
I’d have thought a GP250 would have had quite an advantage. That’s a two stroke 70 – 85 bhp 100kg GP250 yea ??

Having said that, my favourite class over the years has been the 600 SuperSport as we call it and fondly referred to by many a commentator as the “axe murderers”.
Fast, ferocious, ultra competitive and the noise, love it.

We used to have a class called SuperTwins which pitched Ducati’s against Suzuki TLR’s & TL’s, SP1 & SP2 Honda’s and the odd triple (up to 900cc). I loved it but sadly it was dropped as a class in our local club area some years back.
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Old 11-23-2007, 04:49 PM   #60
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Thanks John, I forgot about the 'geezers! I also forgot and mixed superstock and superbike... I guess I belong with the geezers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
Restricted to 72BHP over here though which is tested trackside.
We don't do dyno testing here, but some orgs (not locally) do. Mostly national level competition. We go by the honor system, and allow for protests/ teardowns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
Another series called ThunderBikes allows big bore kits etc and more tuning.
Superbike D and Formula 2 here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
Some of the guys with bigger budgets fit GSXR & Ducati race bodywork and under seat exhausts, they look the muts nuts.
When I learn how to post up a photo I’ll show you.
Like these?
Track Day advice needed...

Track Day advice needed...

Track Day advice needed...

DSC0296deleted

winnerscircle

Track Day advice needed...

lunachix

Track Day advice needed...

Just a few of the SVs I've built/ painted. The last one is my new bike, pic thrown in there 'cause I likes to keeps it real.

We've been building up the SVs for some years since they became more popular to race. GSXR front ends, 80-85hp engines, some use wider rear wheels, etc. I love the little bikes, and our endurance bike is the . I miss my bike, but am growing to love my new one. Patrick at Motorcycles Unlimited has built some nice ones too- one of them won the overall F2 endurance championship a couple of years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
I’d have thought a GP250 would have had quite an advantage. That’s a two stroke 70 – 85 bhp 100kg GP250 yea ??
Hp-wise, no real advantage. Cornering-wise, sometimes (depending on the rider) there is an advantage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
Having said that, my favourite class over the years has been the 600 SuperSport as we call it and fondly referred to by many a commentator as the “axe murderers”.
Yeah, we call it the "meat grinder" class

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinchy View Post
We used to have a class called SuperTwins which pitched Ducati’s against Suzuki TLR’s & TL’s, SP1 & SP2 Honda’s and the odd triple (up to 900cc). I loved it but sadly it was dropped as a class in our local club area some years back.
We have a Heavyweight Twins class (that some of the SV650s have been competitive in) for those bikes. You'll find 999R and Milles pitted against each other for some good competition! The TLR and RC51 is not competitive in that class any more. The SV1k is a better/ less expensive platform in that class IMHO.
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Last edited by tomLSTD; 11-23-2007 at 04:53 PM.
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