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Old 11-15-2007, 11:50 AM   #201
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2 v 1 and they did not stop... Okay, he choose to confront 2 people with a firearm on the basis that he believes they robbed a house. Not his house, so at what point did he fear for his life or feel that he was loosing property that could not be replace or property that affects his livelyhood?
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:51 AM   #202
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So you never stole even a piece of gum before?
yep sure have, but I new no one would shoot me for it. If I had any thought that I might get shot, I sure wouldn't have.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:52 AM   #203
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it's got nothing to do w/ livelyhood. 2 v 1 makes me fear for my life, so i can only assume it does for some 70? y.o. dude.

if we all stand by and watch, society gets worse.

sounds like you accept people stealing your stuff, i don't.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:52 AM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlgorman View Post
once again...

comparing apples to oranges
Hey Mr "I hate theives", stealing is stealing no matter how big or small.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:53 AM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody View Post
2 v 1 and they did not stop... Okay, he choose to confront 2 people with a firearm on the basis that he believes they robbed a house. Not his house, so at what point did he fear for his life or feel that he was loosing property that could not be replace or property that affects his livelyhood?
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:54 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulric View Post
9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
I understand this... so possibly they were fleeing with goods?

I think this guy did the right thing don't get me wrong but, it would not suprise me if he finds himself in a bad position because of it being day light and not his own property. Maybe he is good friends with the neighbors.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:55 AM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogs69 View Post
yep sure have, but I new no one would shoot me for it. If I had any thought that I might get shot, I sure wouldn't have.
skippy. I don't steal, big nor small. I'm always so tempted to grab a gummy bear when I go grocery shopping but I never do because I am too scared to, so I buy them in the packages in the front.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:56 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by RACER X View Post
it's got nothing to do w/ livelyhood. 2 v 1 makes me fear for my life, so i can only assume it does for some 70? y.o. dude.

if we all stand by and watch, society gets worse.

sounds like you accept people stealing your stuff, i don't.
The thing is he placed himself in the position. I do not agree with people stealing my stuff but, what did they steal from him?
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:56 AM   #209
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Hey Mr "I hate theives", stealing is stealing no matter how big or small.
we disagree leave and ill leave it at that...its silly comparing stealing gum (which I havent ever done) to breaking and entering and felony theft...thats why we have different offense classes. Im not saying its acceptable to steal gum.

Wlgorman's final thought:

I dare someone to **** around in the vicinity of my house.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:57 AM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody View Post
2 v 1 and they did not stop... Okay, he choose to confront 2 people with a firearm on the basis that he believes they robbed a house. Not his house, so at what point did he fear for his life or feel that he was loosing property that could not be replace or property that affects his livelyhood?
doesn't have to be his home...

Ask him at what point he felt he neighbor may be loosing property that could not be replaced.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:58 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody View Post
I understand this... so possibly they were fleeing with goods?

I think this guy did the right thing don't get me wrong but, it would not suprise me if he finds himself in a bad position because of it being day light and not his own property. Maybe he is good friends with the neighbors.

thats what im thinking is it worth the leagal fees rather than to just replace a 1000 dollar TV :dontknow:, thats somthing you would have to decide before cause im sure it happened kinda fast.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:58 AM   #212
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we disagree leave and ill leave it at that...its silly comparing stealing gum (which I havent ever done) to breaking and entering and felony theft...thats why we have different offense classes. Im not saying its acceptable to steal gum.

Wlgorman's final thought:

I dare someone to **** around in the vicinity of my house.
Exactly, my house, my stuff, my gun you have to deal with. I am guessing that at this mans age he has known his neighbors for a while and therfore took action for a friend.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:58 AM   #213
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There is no death penalty for stealing, correct?

So, what makes a regular citizen believe he can take laws into his own hands and punish a burglar for worse than what the state would punish them for?

None of this makes sense to me.
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Old 11-15-2007, 11:59 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACER X View Post
if we all stand by and watch, society gets worse.
I agree with that statement!
And hopefully it WILL deter other thieves from doing this but unfortunatelly, two men had to pay with their lives for this lesson.

It's just sad that I know i've done a lot worse than that in my life and never got caught. (in my younger days) And these guys gets killed for a non violent crime.
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:00 PM   #215
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doesn't have to be his home...

Ask him at what point he felt he neighbor may be loosing property that could not be replaced.
I see your point. I guess if my neighbors had become close friends I may choose otherwise.
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:00 PM   #216
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Exactly, my house, my stuff, my gun you have to deal with. I am guessing that at this mans age he has known his neighbors for a while and therfore took action for a friend.
Yep, and when that friend testifies to the GJ that he had permission (verbal agreement that is admissable) he will be sent home.

I think the shooter is going to walk on this one and rightly so. We are talking home owners vs criminals.
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:01 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlgorman View Post
we disagree leave and ill leave it at that...its silly comparing stealing gum (which I havent ever done) to breaking and entering and felony theft...thats why we have different offense classes. Im not saying its acceptable to steal gum.

Wlgorman's final thought:

I dare someone to **** around in the vicinity of my house.
It was a stinkin joke, daaaang...

Note to self, no more jokes with this guy who wants to kill people....
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:01 PM   #218
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thats what im thinking is it worth the leagal fees rather than to just replace a 1000 dollar TV :dontknow:, thats somthing you would have to decide before cause im sure it happened kinda fast.
Especially not my neighbors TV but, I am not very close with my neighbors.
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:02 PM   #219
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Yep, and when that friend testifies to the GJ that he had permission (verbal agreement that is admissable) he will be sent home.

I think the shooter is going to walk on this one and rightly so. We are talking home owners vs criminals.
Good point of view.
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Old 11-15-2007, 12:04 PM   #220
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There is no death penalty for stealing, correct?

So, what makes a regular citizen believe he can take laws into his own hands and punish a burglar for worse than what the state would punish them for?

None of this makes sense to me.
well the state has been influenced by a bunch of pansies and likes to give a slap on the wrist for even the biggest crimes. Lets give them a pat on the bottom, and send them on their way. They will be good for now on. First offense? How about probation and community service.

I have a buddy that sold a stolen tractor. He knew it was stolen, did not steal it himself, but sold it anyway thinking he wouldn't get caught. Well he did, he spent one week in jail, and has 5 yrs probation and 120 hrs probation. The people that stole it, got off scott free. Thats why you don't let it get into the justice system. They had the money to pay for a good lawyer, he didn't.
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