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Old 11-14-2007, 05:09 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faylaricia View Post
Yes, we are talking on the straight. Just look alone at the Best Spd (Mph) column for Lightweight Superbikes. One really stands out!

http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=699716
Those are average lap speeds, not straight-way speeds.
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Old 11-14-2007, 05:10 PM   #62
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Those are average lap speeds, not straight-way speeds.
Well, when I watched it, I watched it haul on the straights.
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Old 11-14-2007, 05:18 PM   #63
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Well, when I watched it, I watched it haul on the straights.
I watched him from the side and rear for most of the day

I have to think about this one. He was 3 seconds faster than us on the best lap. Considering that he must have top of the line parts ... the question is: if we had performance forks and disk brakes on my bike could we gain an extra 3 seconds on our best lap time? We did shave off 3 seconds by adding the Performance shock.

My bike has the 108cc TrailBikes kit (maybe 8-9HP). The Takegawa 88cc kit puts out 11HP and the Takegawa 106 kit is reported to put out 13-14HP! There's at least one guy with the Takegawa 106 kit in an XR50 and he pretty much owns the LW class on the straight-ways. It could be that these guys have a similar motor. :dontknow:
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Old 11-14-2007, 05:27 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denhou1974 View Post
My bike has the 108cc TrailBikes kit (maybe 8-9HP). the Takegawa 106 kit is reported to put out 13-14HP! There's at least one guy with the Takegawa 106 kit in an XR50 and he pretty much owns the LW class on the straight-ways. It could be that these guys have a similar motor. :dontknow:
what team was on an xr50?:dontknow: and the 106 kit makes more HP than the 108 kit? that's nuts... what's the price difference, and what does one have that the other doesnt?
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Old 11-14-2007, 05:35 PM   #65
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what team was on an xr50?:dontknow: and the 106 kit makes more HP than the 108 kit? that's nuts... what's the price difference, and what does one have that the other doesnt?
I was just giving an example of a bike with the Takegawa kit. There's a guy running sprints with one. He has a Green powder coat frame.

The Takegawa 106 kit runs about $1300.

My 108 kit was $500.
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Old 11-14-2007, 05:44 PM   #66
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Those are average lap speeds, not straight-way speeds.
And lap speed is determined only by the lap time. Getting through traffic can change that dramatically. Looking at ours is always funny to see a lap that is obvious with traffic. No more Mr. Nice guy.
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Old 11-14-2007, 05:57 PM   #67
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And lap speed is determined only by the lap time. Getting through traffic can change that dramatically. Looking at ours is always funny to see a lap that is obvious with traffic. No more Mr. Nice guy.
Gotta race like that Philip guy. He looked like he was out there by himself, expect for that there were other bikes all over the place but he just went past them like they were optical illusions.
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Old 11-14-2007, 06:06 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick H.I.C. View Post
And lap speed is determined only by the lap time. Getting through traffic can change that dramatically. Looking at ours is always funny to see a lap that is obvious with traffic. No more Mr. Nice guy.
avg speed = track length / lap time.

track length = .7 mi. The rest is up to you
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:12 PM   #69
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What's an average lap time at Katy (LW SB Class)?

Just wondering where I stand in the pack.
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:14 PM   #70
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Old 11-14-2007, 09:20 PM   #71
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answer me this.

of all the entry fees, gate fees we pay with nothing more than a couple hundred dollars worth of trophies given out over a weekend, some electronic scoring, the volunteers who respectfully and generously devote their time plus the time and effort to put it all together, where does the money end up??

In CMRA, you get a payout, in TMGP, you get a $2 trophy for your efforts.

yes, it's all about fun but, when you're on what should be a competitive bike in your respective class, you are relegated to 4th, 5th and even lower placings, what does that tell you? cheating or not, i don't think that with ALL THINGS considered i can continue to support the TMGP series.

Our team had tons of fun and gained lots of great experience from racing this year. We appreciate the opportunities that we were afforded running in this series.
I think that we have a can of worms here!


#1 Money
I really think if someone asks TMGP will be glad to furnish $$$ amounts and I think your going to find its a labor of love. Did you forget Motels For staff at $80 to $100 a night? Travel expenses no one lives in Katy or Denton (or Hitchcock and Oak hill when we were running there) we spent over $100 in fuel to drive an s10 out to the track. Not a Van loaded with equipment pulling trailer. What about the amount of man hours "donated" by Volunteers?( You do of course realize that the Phillips family basically runs the show in the "Volunteer" catagory, daughter at the gate , son does tech insp, Lori scores does grids etc, Jeff runs the show , and don't forget linda, holly who knows who all else) Equipment costs yeah they have to have their own (TMGP) computers printers Ink Paper, Trophies(sorry guys I think your going to find these cost more than $2) flags, eaze ups for corner workers, cones, leaf blower to blow the track clean before the race day, Tables to put Pizza and trophies, $$$ for track rental, INSURANCE oh I guess we just forgot about trying to buy insurance for a RACING Organization. Hey its not much but do you realize that:
They Bought trash bags
The "Concessions" consisted of a giant cooler full of iced drinks for $.50 each figure what 4 bags of ice cost to fill it plus write off cooler cost over 2 years.,,,,,Hmmm Giant profit there!
Ambulance rental???Don't honestly remember I knew at one time.
Man hours at home dealing with paperwork paying bills sucking up for freebie swag to GIVE AWAY.
Did you forget about the "Horse Choking WAD" a roll of cash that is given away at the end every race. I could tell you how much that is but it's secret only US winners know.
Constantly having to be caught in between the gokarters who hate us and the track owners who want our $$$
Trying to work with CMRA to get more races and venues



#2 Payout
So I guess you want to win some $$$ for racing a MINI BIKE in a MINI BIKE SERIES? Dude if the $$$ is that important or your THAT fast go to the CMRA or AMA and win you some$$$

#3 cheaters
Simple if you think some one is cheating AND they beat you be a man and put your money where your mouth is. Don't snivel and whimper, just man up and say" Here's my money I want to protest that guy"
Believe me I did it in the past and "Certain" Bikes slowed significantly before I got a chance to protest them. It's hard to be honest if you THINK everyone else is cheating. An occassional protest keeps EVERYONE honest. Things have changed alot over the years. When there was a Production YSR50 class years ago the rules said "No selective part matching to obtain performance" OOPS! I had 5 or 6 YSR motors torn and ACCIDENTALLY put the "Best" parts in one motor. Was tjat selective or just a coincidence?
Yes there are people who think winning is more important than fun. Yes there are people who think winning is more important than playing fair. Yes there are people who will do anything to win just like there are people who will quit if they don't win.
PROTEST SOMEONE! ANYONE! Heck Protest ME!
I havn't heard anything about the LWSB protest but if those guys got protested and refused a teardown ,,,,, they were cheating. FACT

#4 be honest with yourself is that guy using a cheater bike? Or is he just faster than you? My wife and I carried the same corner speed on a YSR as 85% of the bikes out there but some of these guys can really ride and just blow by in the corners at speeds that are unbelievable!

#5 Fun
Well I'll tell you about fun. We showed up with a PRODUCTION (read STOCK)
YSR50 only to find out that the bottom class was now SuperSport YSR
(overbore carb expansion chamber no airbox) We were and still are the slowest team out there! We enjoy going out and dragging a knee. Improving/sharpening our riding skills. Spending Husband and wife time building racing traveling. Putting the stuff on Novices in the corners and bragging about it laters. Going into the last turn at Katy and dragging your hand ON the track surface just to intimidate the guy thats getting ready to blow by you on a SuperBike. Spending time with a group of racers unlike any other. These people will lend you tools, parts, I've seen bikes loaned to an opposing team that then got beat by their own Back up Bike!(yeah that was me) A place where the kids are just left free to roam the pits visiting playing selling homemade brooms and crosses. No one has to worry about stolen tools or molested kids, malicious attitudes or arrogance. It's like a family reunion pic nic with racing thrown in on the side. It's an atmosphere where no one is afraid to bring their kids to race because no one is going to get so reckless as to hurt some one.
well I could rant on and on but I think you catch the drift, I hate to see anyone leave and always want to see more noobs join, so I hope you rethink things
CARL and MARIE
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Old 11-15-2007, 03:54 PM   #72
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Quote:
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There were a few yellow bikes out there, so im not sure which you're refering to. My assumption is the #15 class that runs expert? :dontknow: That bike is Marc Mondshine's and yeah its pretty quick!(it's a DRZ110)

I haven't ran sprints but yeah I noticed yesterday when they were calling awards if im not mistaking, a couple of the guys from JSK Racing(Endurance Novice) were running Expert Sprint races. I thought that was a bit odd(assuming I heard correctly, which I think I did).

Who says anything? no one. Yep, it may be , but in the end it's just fun to be out there rubbing elbows and getting seat time.
Capafool,

You heard correctly about 2 riders from JSK Racing running in the expert sprint races. I am not sure about nobody not saying anything is true. I know somebody this year brought that question up in regards to novice riders being in the expert sprint classes. From what I gather, the response was that it was not against the rules for a novice to "run up" a class in experts just as it was not against the rules to run a LWSB in Superbike classes. I also got the opinion that if the novice was slow enough to be a hazard to the expert riders then the race official would not allow them to be on the track in expert races.

In the case of myself and my brother, we made the decision to run some expert classes in the last 2 TMGP races. Partially due to low expert turnout in the MiniGP Class ( there was only 1 expert there this weekend). We also felt that during the year our skills had grown to the point that we were not a hazard on the track (i.e. being lapped) and who can turn down the opportunity to run more races anyway. Just because we may end up with a podium finish by default ( I got a 3rd once I believe because 2 experts crashed out) does not necesarily mean we are doing wrong by running a higher class up.
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Old 11-15-2007, 04:01 PM   #73
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Quote:
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Capafool,

You heard correctly about 2 riders from JSK Racing running in the expert sprint races. I am not sure about nobody not saying anything is true. I know somebody this year brought that question up in regards to novice riders being in the expert sprint classes. From what I gather, the response was that it was not against the rules for a novice to "run up" a class in experts just as it was not against the rules to run a LWSB in Superbike classes. I also got the opinion that if the novice was slow enough to be a hazard to the expert riders then the race official would not allow them to be on the track in expert races.

In the case of myself and my brother, we made the decision to run some expert classes in the last 2 TMGP races. Partially due to low expert turnout in the MiniGP Class ( there was only 1 expert there this weekend). We also felt that during the year our skills had grown to the point that we were not a hazard on the track (i.e. being lapped) and who can turn down the opportunity to run more races anyway. Just because we may end up with a podium finish by default ( I got a 3rd once I believe because 2 experts crashed out) does not necesarily mean we are doing wrong by running a higher class up.
Thanks for the explanation

Just figured that coming from CMRA (I don't think CMRA would ever let you do that to run in both ranks), it would apply also here(I haven't ran sprints in TMGP so I wouldn't know). And yeah, I agree that if you think you can put up your LW bike(assuming legal LW) against SB and kick some , then you should be allowed to! Kinda like running a 600 in a 1000 class. I don't think its wrong on your part to do it if the organization allows it.
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Last edited by Capafool; 11-15-2007 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 11-15-2007, 04:18 PM   #74
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Nothing wrong with running up a class, I did it a few times this year on my stock 100.
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Old 11-15-2007, 04:24 PM   #75
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Quote:
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Nothing wrong with running up a class, I did it a few times this year on my stock 100.
up a class? or rank? I think the concern some people had was with running expert races if you're a novice, not running a "slower" bike in a "faster" class.
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Old 11-16-2007, 01:08 AM   #76
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Quote:
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$100 x 25 (bikes) = 4hr race $2,500
$8 x 75 (people) = gate fee $600
food/drink sales = ???

$3,100 - $700 (ambulance) - $200 (trophies) - $1,000 (track fee?) = $2,100

$2,100 for 1 day....might not be getting rich....but sure as aren't spreading the wealth
You need to call your grade school math teacher and tell him/her that you are sorry that you didn't pay attention in class.$3100-$700-200-1000=$1200.

Where do you buy trophies for $2.00? Trophy presentation for the TMGP cost over $3000.00 at the last race. The gate doesn't pay for insurance which is based on the number of people coming through the gate. If they didn't allow spectators, the TMGP would make more money. They lose about $2 for everyone that comes through the gate and doesn't race.

Ambulance? Let's see, 2 paramedics (3 at Katy), one fully equipped ambulance driven to Katy and Denton, and rooms and meals for all =$700. Ha Ha ha ha Ha! It would be hard to get 2 homeless guys from the parking lot at George Brown Convention Center to do it for that.

$100X25 teams=When did we have 25 teams except at the final race when we discounted entries fees for everyone that raced with us this year. 11 of the teams raced for free, five raced for $15 and all but 1 team paid less than $60. Let's see, using my math, not yours, 16 out of the 25 teams paid a total of $75 (total, not each). The other 9 paid a total of $360.00. The promoters are probably headed to Las Vegas!! Sprint racers enjoyed a similar discount with 20 racers racing for free and 52 racers eligible for an 80% discount. The promoters did make money on the first 6 races. They gave it back at the last one. Where were you, Mr. Share The Wealth, when the promoter lost over $2000.00 on a race at Denton a couple of years ago? It happened on a rain soaked weekend. I'll see you at the track this weekend so you can just bring me a check. Let's share.

Food and drink sales=$??? The only food and drink available is the white chest next to the door to registration. Sodas or a bottle of water cost $0.50 each. The profit on drink sales must be 3 to 5 dollars per weekend. No wait, Jeff has to buy the ice and not everyone actually puts money in the kitty when they get a soda so it's actually a losing proposition.

$2100.00 per day X 8 weekends X 2 days in a weekend = $33,600 for a few days work!!! If this was anywhere near the actual figures, I doubt that the 5 previous promoters would have given the promoting rights to each succeeding promoter. No promoter has ever made any money by letting someone else become promoter of the TMGP. If I had a business that generated $30,000+ profit for 8 weekends of work, I could certainly sell it for something. Why haven't the 5 former Promoters sold out?
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:04 AM   #77
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Ya, I'm in it for the fun. I really wanted to be there this last weekend, but other endeavors came up.

And Carl (SRADkneedragger) get's the most air at the Denton track. I think he thinks that ysr is a supercross bike.
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:18 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humanrace911 View Post
You need to call your grade school math teacher and tell him/her that you are sorry that you didn't pay attention in class.$3100-$700-200-1000=$1200.

Where do you buy trophies for $2.00? Trophy presentation for the TMGP cost over $3000.00 at the last race. The gate doesn't pay for insurance which is based on the number of people coming through the gate. If they didn't allow spectators, the TMGP would make more money. They lose about $2 for everyone that comes through the gate and doesn't race.

Ambulance? Let's see, 2 paramedics (3 at Katy), one fully equipped ambulance driven to Katy and Denton, and rooms and meals for all =$700. Ha Ha ha ha Ha! It would be hard to get 2 homeless guys from the parking lot at George Brown Convention Center to do it for that.

$100X25 teams=When did we have 25 teams except at the final race when we discounted entries fees for everyone that raced with us this year. 11 of the teams raced for free, five raced for $15 and all but 1 team paid less than $60. Let's see, using my math, not yours, 16 out of the 25 teams paid a total of $75 (total, not each). The other 9 paid a total of $360.00. The promoters are probably headed to Las Vegas!! Sprint racers enjoyed a similar discount with 20 racers racing for free and 52 racers eligible for an 80% discount. The promoters did make money on the first 6 races. They gave it back at the last one. Where were you, Mr. Share The Wealth, when the promoter lost over $2000.00 on a race at Denton a couple of years ago? It happened on a rain soaked weekend. I'll see you at the track this weekend so you can just bring me a check. Let's share.

Food and drink sales=$??? The only food and drink available is the white chest next to the door to registration. Sodas or a bottle of water cost $0.50 each. The profit on drink sales must be 3 to 5 dollars per weekend. No wait, Jeff has to buy the ice and not everyone actually puts money in the kitty when they get a soda so it's actually a losing proposition.

$2100.00 per day X 8 weekends X 2 days in a weekend = $33,600 for a few days work!!! If this was anywhere near the actual figures, I doubt that the 5 previous promoters would have given the promoting rights to each succeeding promoter. No promoter has ever made any money by letting someone else become promoter of the TMGP. If I had a business that generated $30,000+ profit for 8 weekends of work, I could certainly sell it for something. Why haven't the 5 former Promoters sold out?
dammit. i hit my head too many times i suppose. my math is bad

i was only giving an example since someone said do the math. guess i wasn't the right guy to do the math. :/:

either way i have fun in tmgp, and i think this conversation has gotten way outta hand. from cheating to money issues.

good for you guys who are standing up for tmgp and what you believe in....i'm not part of the "club" yet.....so i'm just seeing oppositions from both sides.
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:43 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofpain View Post
$100 x 25 (bikes) = 4hr race $2,500
$8 x 75 (people) = gate fee $600
food/drink sales = ???

$3,100 - $700 (ambulance) - $200 (trophies) - $1,000 (track fee?) = $2,100

$2,100 for 1 day....might not be getting rich....but sure as aren't spreading the wealth



I'm protesting you.
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Old 11-16-2007, 08:41 PM   #80
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