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Old 11-04-2007, 02:10 AM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius View Post
Speaking of not reading, Whatever happened to the topic of the thread? I skipped from page 1 to the end and didn't really wade through anything else.

Threads will always branch, but it's mostly on topic. You can't just skip everything and then post a novel at the end.


The wikipedia links in my last post were very much about the thoughts of church (and religion) of those men that Cletus listed. For the most part, they did not belong to a church. Some attended, barely, but they were more "Deist" than christian.

He didn't read it, and neither did you. Soooo.. why then should we read your novel?

Ya'll can't have a one sided argument.




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Personally, I think the two most dangerous words someone can say before spouting out something for the case of christianity are "I believe".
"Dangerous" because it's a less than absolute answer and leaves room for doubt?


Christianity may be the largest religion as far as numbers, but 66% of the WORLD's population are NOT christians. It doesn't matter if they are atheists or believe in some other form of (s). That's a whole lotta people going to '' every day.

Fables, fairytales and myths.

Church = free* counseling.



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Old 11-04-2007, 03:43 AM   #242
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I'm not going to jump into the middle of whatever you and that other guy have going on, on a side note, I dont care if jfk was a catholic or not :P

yes your right about it being because it is less than absolute, and also because "I believe" is actually an abbreviation for "I believe, because I do not know, because I have not read for myself". If you go back and stick that in place of anywhere someone has started a thought with "I believe" you will find their posts take on a whole new meaning.

On the subject of , yes, a lot of people are going to , who is going to ? Anyone that has heard the name of Jesus Christ and turned away from him, not receiving him as their savior. It's black and white.

America is not used to being talked to like this, but it's true. Religion is not like burger king, it's not made your way. There is only one name that can get you into heavan, and it's Jesus Christ.


ps, if you have not ever heard of Jesus and you die good news, your not condemmed =)
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Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!

Last edited by Ramius; 11-04-2007 at 03:45 AM. Reason: Because I can sukka
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Old 11-04-2007, 06:51 AM   #243
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[QUOTE=ArturoC;830144]

The wikipedia links in my last post were very much about the thoughts of church (and religion) of those men that Cletus listed. For the most part, they did not belong to a church.


Let me clarify: Each of these guys that I listed have a religion. They have stated beleifs in a devine being who created the heavans and earth and interceeds in the lifes of men.
I never said that they were members of a chruch. There is a difference and you pointed it out in your links.
JFK was a memeber of the Catholic chruch and I used his as an example of a man who changed the world as we know it but didn't use the church as a crutch for being weak minded.

I should have pointed that out before now to eleminate any confusion about these men having religion and belonging to a church, but I am not sure where the church issue came from...
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Old 11-04-2007, 07:20 AM   #244
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^^^^

You never know where things will go around here, personally I recommend popcorn and bc powder
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Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
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Old 11-04-2007, 08:58 AM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius View Post
ps, if you have not ever heard of Jesus and you die good news, your not condemmed =)

Wow, That kind of thinking is somewhere inbetween silly and flat out funny.
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Old 11-04-2007, 09:04 AM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLETUS View Post
Let me clarify: Each of these guys that I listed have a religion. They have stated beleifs in a devine being who created the heavans and earth and interceeds in the lifes of men.

And let me try to clarify again since you STILL haven't read the links, or just missed, or didn't understand the parts I was pointing out.

Some of the guys you listed are Deists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

"Deists typically reject supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that does not interfere with human life and the laws of the universe. What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, most Deists see as interpretations made by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources."

"Deism is a religious philosophy and movement that derives the existence and nature of from reason and personal experience, in contrast to theism (with religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which relies on revelation in sacred scriptures or the testimony of other people."
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Old 11-04-2007, 09:06 AM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLETUS View Post
I should have pointed that out before now to eleminate any confusion about these men having religion and belonging to a church, but I am not sure where the church issue came from...


^^^ That being the reason for this thread to begin with.
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Old 11-04-2007, 09:23 AM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturoC View Post
And let me try to clarify again since you STILL haven't read the links, or just missed, or didn't understand the parts I was pointing out.

Some of the guys you listed are Deists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

"Deists typically reject supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that does not interfere with human life and the laws of the universe. What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, most Deists see as interpretations made by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources."

"Deism is a religious philosophy and movement that derives the existence and nature of from reason and personal experience, in contrast to theism (with religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which relies on revelation in sacred scriptures or the testimony of other people."
This is incorrect. These men, being Freemasons, proffess a belief in a devine being. I read the Diests part but know different...
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Old 11-04-2007, 09:25 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetcycles View Post
Good point Sir Arturo, IMO there is a direct connection between one's level of education and one's belief in . Most of the bible beaters running around are uneducated.

Religion is the crutch of the weak man.
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^^^ That being the reason for this thread to begin with.

This is the quote that I was replying too, and it has nothing to do with this thread.

Carry on.
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Old 11-04-2007, 10:47 AM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLETUS View Post
This is incorrect. These men, being Freemasons, proffess a belief in a devine being. I read the Diests part but know different...

From a link you posted earlier in the thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry

Search the page. Nowhere on that page is 'divine' (or devine keke) being.

"Freemasonry now exists in various forms all over the world, and has millions of members. The various forms all share moral and metaphysical ideals, which include, in most cases, a constitutional declaration of belief in a Supreme Being."


Supreme being. Let's follow that link....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Being


"Most Freemasons would take the view that the Supreme Being equates to ; others hold a more complex or philosophical interpretation of the term. However, the candidate is not asked to expand on, or explain, his or her interpretation of Supreme Being."

"Many fraternal organizations, especially those which admit members of diverse religious backgrounds (such as Freemasonry) use the term as a generic description, allowing the candidate to adhere to whichever deity or concept he holds to be appropriate."


Soooo, the natural order of the universe from which we evolved can be considered a supreme being. ^^^ And since they don't ask for an interpretation or explanation of what their particular definition of supreme being is...

Tada!!
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Old 11-04-2007, 07:01 PM   #251
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my uncle is a shriner the highest level of masons and yes arturoC your correct the mason's believe in a supreme being. but not a devine being. there is a difference. (I called and asked)
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Old 11-04-2007, 07:21 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by 50cc chick View Post
This came up in another thread about church, preaching about the goodnews of the gospel, and .
Like I said in that thread I personally feel churches are fake. Yes i believe in . Grew up going to church, teaching sunday school, the whole 9 yrds. A event happened in my life that made me rethink what I believed in. Like I said before, I believe in , but do not support the whole going to church and what not!!
I am curious to see what everyone elses views are....
im with u on that one, churches is just a money making thing

is nice when u take the kids and whatnot, but is really a bussiness
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Technology has insulated the stupid from the rightful consequences of their actions - and exposed the rest of us to the damage they can cause.

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nevermind ima bumbass and ill get my wife 2 do it 2nite.
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Old 11-04-2007, 07:25 PM   #253
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I understand what you are saying, and dont worry I wont take any of this personal i made this thread knowing if can get ugly at times .

Do I sin, will I continue sinning? YES! However, will always forgive. DO I believe in the power of prayer, yes/no! DO i understand the bible completly? no, not even preachers do.

So Arturo I am curious to hear what you mean by, we believe in Gos 'just in case'....just in case of what?
ill answer that, ppl lives their lives as if there was no . doing all kind of but

at the end of the day, they always give a pray or 2 just in case


meanning, they dont really believe in , but, if by any chance he existed I DONT WANNA GO TO

so is just another thing to do in the list of chores, we all sin. and only when we are in troubles we remember

when we are ok and happy we dont even remember him

so yes pray just in case"
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Technology has insulated the stupid from the rightful consequences of their actions - and exposed the rest of us to the damage they can cause.

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nevermind ima bumbass and ill get my wife 2 do it 2nite.
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Old 11-04-2007, 07:26 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by houseofpain View Post
i don't believe in the whole church thing either.....however i like spiritual words from the bible that are layed out in a way we can understand.

i like small group prayers like the former chaplain of the CMRA had for all the riders before we started our race day. or listening to someone translate the word of so we can understand it better, or find our own meaning of it..... being in an actual church makes me feel i'm only there to keep their lights on, and their minister's lexus/mercedes maintained.

+ a frigging million always taking advantage of the weak minded
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Technology has insulated the stupid from the rightful consequences of their actions - and exposed the rest of us to the damage they can cause.

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nevermind ima bumbass and ill get my wife 2 do it 2nite.
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I know enough Spanish to stick you with a knife cabron
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Old 11-04-2007, 07:29 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by 50cc chick View Post
small prayers are always up lifting and make me feel good.


how do you figure they are atheists? I was almost a perfect child growing up, until about 17. I had been through what I thought was and back, and could not understand why was punishing me. I was very active in my church, and prayed all the time. Yet kept feeding me a life challenge just when I thought I was over the previous downward spiral. This is when i stopped believing. Another life crisis occured and I found myself praying and believing again. to this day I still pray(talk to ) almost everyday. So tell me how that makes someone like me who understands that i will sin, but believe in that I'm atheists?
because ppl keep blaming everything on . is just life. the same life we all have to live

has nothing to do with ur pain loneliness or missbehavior

is our fault, lets accept it
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Technology has insulated the stupid from the rightful consequences of their actions - and exposed the rest of us to the damage they can cause.

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nevermind ima bumbass and ill get my wife 2 do it 2nite.
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I know enough Spanish to stick you with a knife cabron
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Old 11-04-2007, 07:33 PM   #256
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that was a good one, but notice as you're the only one on here instigating drama. Not me. take you negativity somehwere else please!!! thanks!! I have been good, it's ppl like you who bring up !!

eaaassyyy dont take it that seriously
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Technology has insulated the stupid from the rightful consequences of their actions - and exposed the rest of us to the damage they can cause.

Quote:
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nevermind ima bumbass and ill get my wife 2 do it 2nite.
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Old 11-04-2007, 07:38 PM   #257
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Old 11-05-2007, 12:23 AM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturoC View Post
Tada!
Good Grief Aurturo, did you forget about the time I took you into the lodge and showed you the Holy Bible in the middle of the room. :P


Freemasons aren't Deists, in fact, they are not a religion at all, nor do they profess to be. They DO admit that this world is too complex and perfect a place to have just happened, and that a supreme 'architect' had to have created it.

There are religious sects of freemasonry though, such as the York Rite (most people go scottish rite, york rite, or shriners).

Those who join the York rite take an oath to defend Christianity to the death if called upon to do so.

And for the person who spoke earlier of their relative in the scottish rite being the highest level mason you can be, I have a slight correction for you.

A third degree, or Master Mason, of the blue lodge is the highest 'level' one can reach in masonry so to speak, a 32 (or the few 33rd) degree scottish rite masons, nor the shriners, nor the wearers of the maltese cross have any more authority than one who is simply a master mason.

Ask your relative, he can give you more light.

Back on topic,


Nikki, it does not matter how "good" of a person you are, you are saved by faith alone, and not by works.

Beware the false prophets (including certain churches) who will lead you astray, in order for the devil to win he does not have to get you to not believe in , he just has to get you to doubt him.

True Christians, when filled with the spirit, think not of themselves and what can do to make their lives better, for they know that Jesus, the only perfect being to walk this planet, was persecuted and crucified, so how much better is the world to treat us in our imperfection who call his name?

They know that their testimony may be what brings one person, even just one person from by accepting Jesus Christ, and so they do not disquiet their prayer life to quiet and personal confines but profess their faith in the open for all to see.



ps, I hurt my eyeball and can't see, so typo's and other grammatical errors may abound. Sorry.
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Old 11-05-2007, 12:49 AM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius View Post
Good Grief Aurturo, did you forget about the time I took you into the lodge and showed you the Holy Bible in the middle of the room. :P
I stayed in the parking lot.



Quote:
Freemasons aren't Deists, in fact, they are not a religion at all, nor do they profess to be
Nobody said Freemasons are Deists or a religion. What I said was that some of the people Cletus listed were Deists. Cletus disagreed with this based on what he 'knows'. But, yes they were freemasons, and they were Deists.

The rules for becoming a freemason allow for this based on ones concept of a supreme being.




Quote:
There are religious sects of freemasonry though, such as the York Rite (most people go scottish rite, york rite, or shriners).

Those who join the York rite take an oath to defend Christianity to the death if called upon to do so.

Those requirements are specific to those sects. They do not apply to just being a freemason. Those sects or 'appendants' are mentioned in the wikipedia links.


So, if in fact your lodge does place these Christian requirements on becoming a freemason, then it's not truly a freemason lodge. It's morphed into something else.


Quote:
ps, I hurt my eyeball and can't see, so typo's and other grammatical errors may abound. Sorry.
You spelled my name wrong. /me shakes fist
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Old 11-05-2007, 12:54 AM   #260
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^^^^^^^^

Maybe I was just typing with an accent =)

All blue lodges have Holy Bibles in them though, I promise.
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