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Old 11-02-2007, 02:55 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlgorman View Post
its funny how people get offended and throw insults when someone points out a fact...immature...but right on THUG BIKES...keep on 'thuggin'...
^^^ Fits the profile. MUAHAHAHAA!!
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Old 11-02-2007, 02:56 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetcycles View Post
show me the insult.
Again, I will not "prove you of anything, but I think you have that sig up for a reason.
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:10 PM   #223
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Proof is a subjective thing. Play with your neuro chemistry a little and you can have proof for just about anything.
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:15 PM   #224
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Quote:
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Proof is a subjective thing. Play with your neuro chemistry a little and you can have proof for just about anything.
SHHHHHH!
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:50 PM   #225
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I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking. The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides. Carl Sagan
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:55 PM   #226
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Do any of you believe in scientific theory??
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Old 11-03-2007, 01:33 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50cc chick View Post
I tried to get back into the church scene a while back and went to a bible study that Joel Olstein's sister lead, along with him. That's when I finally said I had enough, it was all fake.

The Olsteins edict is incorrect, do not blame all churches for their improper use of the Bible.

I did not read past this page because when I skipped to page 12 I could see it got off topic, I'll start new thread, come visit.
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Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
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Old 11-03-2007, 03:02 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius View Post
The Olsteins edict is incorrect, do not blame all churches for their improper use of the Bible.

Any use of the bible other than fairy tales for adults, is a misuse of it.
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Old 11-03-2007, 06:09 AM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturoC View Post
Any use of the bible other than fairy tales for adults, is a misuse of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of , and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Consider yourself corrected.


ps, how you been?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
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Old 11-03-2007, 08:14 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius View Post
Consider yourself corrected.
By quoting the bible? I rest my case.


Quote:
ps, how you been?

Long time no see
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Old 11-03-2007, 08:18 AM   #231
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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."
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Old 11-03-2007, 08:19 AM   #232
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"No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says; he is always convinced that it says what he means."
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Old 11-03-2007, 08:21 AM   #233
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"Creationists make it sound like a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night."
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Old 11-03-2007, 08:27 AM   #234
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"I distrust those people who know so well what wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."
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Old 11-03-2007, 08:32 AM   #235
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"Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly, as I have said, the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. Fear is the basis of the whole thing -- fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand."
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Old 11-03-2007, 09:09 AM   #236
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"Faith is believing something you know ain't true."

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Old 11-03-2007, 10:12 AM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLETUS View Post
George Washington, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Abe Lincoln,Winston Chruchill, J. F. Kennedy...
Your right, all pretty week needing a crutch like religion!


George Washington:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_...igious_beliefs

Ben Franklin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjami...rsonal_beliefs


Thomas Jefferson:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_...eligious_views
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

"The Jefferson Bible, or The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth as it is formally titled, was an attempt by Thomas Jefferson to glean the teachings of Jesus from the Christian Gospels. Jefferson wished to extract the doctrine of Jesus by removing sections of the New Testament containing supernatural aspects as well as perceived misinterpretations he believed had been added by the Four Evangelists.[1] In essence, Thomas Jefferson did not believe in Jesus' divinity, the Trinity, the resurrection, miracles, or any other supernatural aspect described in the Bible"


Abe Lincoln:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham...phical_beliefs


Winston Churchill:
Well, he has church in his name.

JFK:
I dunno, but he was boinking Marilyn Monroe.


The most 'religous' of the group seems to be Washington. The others (dunno about churchill and jfk) not so much.
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:25 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturoC View Post
George Washington:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_...igious_beliefs

Ben Franklin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjami...rsonal_beliefs


Thomas Jefferson:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_...eligious_views
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

"The Jefferson Bible, or The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth as it is formally titled, was an attempt by Thomas Jefferson to glean the teachings of Jesus from the Christian Gospels. Jefferson wished to extract the doctrine of Jesus by removing sections of the New Testament containing supernatural aspects as well as perceived misinterpretations he believed had been added by the Four Evangelists.[1] In essence, Thomas Jefferson did not believe in Jesus' divinity, the Trinity, the resurrection, miracles, or any other supernatural aspect described in the Bible"


Abe Lincoln:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham...phical_beliefs


Winston Churchill:
Well, he has church in his name.

JFK:
I dunno, but he was boinking Marilyn Monroe.


The most 'religous' of the group seems to be Washington. The others (dunno about churchill and jfk) not so much.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry

All but JFK who was catholic.

That is all...
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:31 PM   #239
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^^ you didn't read anything.
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:34 AM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArturoC View Post
^^ you didn't read anything.
Speaking of not reading, Whatever happened to the topic of the thread? I skipped from page 1 to the end and didn't really wade through anything else.

Personally, I think the two most dangerous words someone can say before spouting out something for the case of christianity are "I believe".

No one cares what you (meaning anyone who has or will use those words) think. Well, Ok thats harsh, it's nice to know what you think but seriously, what we really want is the truth, not what you think.

It's at this point that I will seperate the two growing debates. I am going to request that any christianity vs non-christianity debate go to the religious question thread I made for the purpose of diverting traffic.

Now, Believing that the Bible is the True word inspired by and the Final authority for all matters, let us ask the Bible what is the purpose of church, and it's place concerning your eternal salvation (as was the question that started this thread). This way we can learn the truth, and not what someone thinks, or someones opinion is.

First off concerning Salvation, the matter of whether you get to go to Heavan or not.

Going to church does not decide whether or not you go to heavan. There is only one way to go to heavan and that is through Jesus Christ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
In order to get into heavan, all you have to do is receive Jesus Christ as your savior, you never have to step foot into a church.

However.

Should you go to church? Yes.

Why?

First off, lets find out a little more about church. Who started the church? Jesus did, he created the first church, he founded the church. Actually, he is the head of the church (dont tell the pope).

When you become a Christian you join into the "body of Christ" ever heard that term? You join the fabric of the Christian community and you are to function together for the purpose of Glorifying and spreading his word. The way you do this is to unite with the proper new testiment church and grow spiritually and spread the gospel.

If you think of Christianity in human terms, Jesus is the head, and the church is the heart. Then theres all of us, some of us are pinkies some of us are noses and well, in any orginization theres always at least one a-hole. We all have a job to do though, but for you to say you dont need church.. thats like having your big toe say "Hey body.. I dont need you, I'm a toe, I'm breakin offa this foot and going on over here to do my own thing!"

What happens while that toe is on the foot? He is getting refreshment, he is getting nourishment from the heart, or the church, that is being controlled by the brain, or Jesus. Sometimes that toe has to work a little harder, and the brain tells the heart to send more blood to keep him going.. if that toe was not a part of the body what is it doing? Nothing, and whats even worse is the toe doesn't realize that even though he's just a toe, the whole rest of the body is depending on him for balance. You see, it may be just a toe, but Gods purpose for that toe is bigger than the toe can see. So is your purpose for . You don't have to go to church, but it is through church that you get revived and refreshed, and where you will find a bigger purpose for your life than you could ever have imagined off on your own.


This brings up one problem.. what if you've got a bad heart? Well, thats a very serious problem with very real issues. You have one of two choices, you can either try to help the heart out, to try to make it healthy again, or you can.. transplant it.

Finding the right church can be tough, very tough, but it's worth it to do it. Right now I go to a church which, now that I joined, has nearly 11 members. It's small but it has, in my mind, everything that a church is supposed to have.

What are some things to look out for in a church?

1. They believe in the Bible (oddly, this is actually an issue)
2. They believe that you _cannot_ lose your salvation once it's obtained. You simply can't, Jesus died for our sins, all of them, if you can lose your salvation that is saying that there is some sin you can commit that is so terrible it will take Jesus off the cross. Since that can not happen, you can not lose your salvation.

To me those are the two requirements. a couple of "good things" would be..
1. not so big that I am unknown, just another face in the crowd.
2. focuses on worship more than entertainment (again, another odd actual issue) and a quick example of this would be, a church i visited, had a picnic type event, everyone gathered, there were bands singing, food eaten, activities going on but you know what? I did not hear one prayer, I did not hear one scriptual reference or see one Bible open. Entertainment is fine, but don't forget to mention Jesus in there somewhere, I mean bless the food at least or thank him for the weather or something sheesh. Too many people turn church into a big social event, you go to church to get closer to , not to let everyone see you in your sunday best while you talk bad about all the visitors. Thats what drives folks away.


Conclusion: Churches aren't "Fake" there are a lot of bad churches, there are a lot of bad people in churches but.. if you let that stop you from going then why do anything, because your job is full of bad people, but you go there every day, so is your favorite hang out, or the places you shop for food.

The right thing to do is find the right church, and it's not easy because everyone says they are right, the best way to know if it's right is to..well... read your Bible, know what the truth is, that way you can identify the truth when you see it, and identify the lies when you see it too. The next best thing is to ask me, I wouldn't steer you wrong. =)


Cliffnotes:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
Who I am now is not who I was, and who I will be is better than anything I ever could have imagined. I am Filled with the Spirit of Christ and I walk surrounded by a Host Of Angels, who can stand before the Army of ? Amen!
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