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Old 10-23-2007, 01:16 PM   #41
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my 06 R6 can be either without buying.
i thought the older ones and the r1s you had to buy a part.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:17 PM   #42
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The first time you accidently kick a gear down going into a corner you might understand one of the reasons for GP shift.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:21 PM   #43
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It doesn't happen often, but I run out of gear at MSRH while still leaned over to far to put my foot under the shifter. With GP shift I just push down and change to 3rd.

BTW, you don't have to be at maximum lean for it not to have enough room to put you toes under the shifter.
Ground clearance and shifting up in big left sweepers are the 2 possible answer that I'd buy. Is there any more advantages for gp shift besides these two?
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:23 PM   #44
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Ground clearance and shifting up in big left sweepers are the 2 possible answer that I'd buy. Is there any more advantages for gp shift besides these two?
Accidental down shifting.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:24 PM   #45
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:24 PM   #46
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The first time you accidently kick a gear down going into a corner you might understand one of the reasons for GP shift.

it happens more than once.

Maybe I am too old school to change/accept or learn new things.:dontknow:
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:26 PM   #47
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I agree with WitchDoctor, plus I grew up riding a '71 Yamaha JT1, and it was N-1-2-3-4 strait down, so it's pretty much GP stock. My friend had a '72 Honda 70 that was the same. As for the possible consequences of switching back and fourth, I laid my RC over in a left hand thun because I upshifted unconsciously instead of downshifting, killed the engine when I let off the clutch, locked the rear wheel just as I was leaning over (right in the middle, oily part of the lane too), and out it went.

Needless to say, one of the changes for the repair list is an '03 VFR shifter to reverse the pattern.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:27 PM   #48
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it happens more than once.

Maybe I am too old school to change/accept or learn new things.:dontknow:
I had it happen to me going into the chicane @ TWS (Texas World Speedway) before. I grabbed 2 down, went to adjust my foot and some how kicked it into 1st. It was not very fun and I decided to try GP at that point.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:28 PM   #49
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By the way, I thought of another reason why the GP shift may be easier, when you downshift coming to a turn, you usually go several clicks at a time, so having the foot already under the shifter is not problem, you shift down a few gears and release, put the foot on the peg and go into the turn.

However, when you accelerate, you usually shift, speed up more, shift again ...speed up more, shift again and there is a lot more pause. So on standard shift, the entire time, your foot would be hanging underneath the peg or you'd have to switch foot position every time you hit the max RPM. GP just makes more sense in that situation, doesn't it? It even makes total sense for the street.
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Old 10-23-2007, 02:49 PM   #50
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both shift methods have good and bad. You can upshift AND downshift while in a corner. I've seen it done and I've done it some myself depending on the situation. Especially during a race if someone kills your drive into a corner and you have do downshift mid-corner to get drive out. If you had GP shift, it would make it harder. But on the other hand, if you were to have to upshift w/normal pattern, then clearance may become an issue as well as be more of a hassle to get under the shifter.

Also depending on uphill/downhill turns, track configuration and gravity you may have a tougher time using GP on some tracks but go to a different configured track and the opposite may be true.

You can miss gears no matter how your pattern is and you can miss one upshifting OR downshifting.

I can think of several great racers that use standard shifting (Mladin is one of them)... im sure if moving to GP shift would drop their lap times another 2 seconds, they would do it, so obviously its just a matter of what YOU want and what feels "right" for YOU. forget what everyone else says.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:23 PM   #51
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Another reason that some pros probable do not switch is that they have some what of an unlimited budget and are able to generally regear around the problem. For someone like me, there would be no way for me to afford the 30 sprockets to always get that perfect gear ratio.
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Old 10-23-2007, 11:45 PM   #52
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I do standard shift and havent had any problems at any of the CMRAs tracks. My endurance team mates do gp and I dont think they have had any problems either. It is just shifting gears after all
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Old 10-24-2007, 01:01 AM   #53
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I do standard shift and havent had any problems at any of the CMRAs tracks. My endurance team mates do gp and I dont think they have had any problems either. It is just shifting gears after all
-Gabe
I use standard too. I've only needed to do midcorner upsifts in only several situations at only a coupleCMRA tracks. I feel if you bike is geared right on the sprockets you will enter the turn in the correct gear. Then have a good drive out of the turn and be stood up before having to grab for a taller gear.


Quote:
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both shift methods have good and bad. You can upshift AND downshift while in a corner. I've seen it done and I've done it some myself depending on the situation. Especially during a race if someone kills your drive into a corner and you have do downshift mid-corner to get drive out. If you had GP shift, it would make it harder. But on the other hand, if you were to have to upshift w/normal pattern, then clearance may become an issue as well as be more of a hassle to get under the shifter.

Also depending on uphill/downhill turns, track configuration and gravity you may have a tougher time using GP on some tracks but go to a different configured track and the opposite may be true.

You can miss gears no matter how your pattern is and you can miss one upshifting OR downshifting.

I can think of several great racers that use standard shifting (Mladin is one of them)... im sure if moving to GP shift would drop their lap times another 2 seconds, they would do it, so obviously its just a matter of what YOU want and what feels "right" for YOU. forget what everyone else says.

I have use both shifting methods on most of the CMRA tracks and I can see what your saying. If your your comminted on the left and you are out of motor needing another gear, GP shifting in most cases would be better. Also for alot of racers it could be easier for clutchless shifts, depending what kind of trick stuff you have. I like GP shifting cause it feels more natural when your comming out of corners or in commited situations where you do need to upshift.

I swapped back cause of street riding. On the track I misshifted some gears everynow and then comming into turns. Cooking into a corner an shifting into a higher gear can really through you off too That really spooked me. Like my bike just died and I not going to put the proper weight distrubtion on my tires, load up the front and eat it.
I wouldn't mind swapping everyhing over to GP and just getting used to it. I think I might like it for the street too.

Everybody has a preference. Gp shifting for some people is almost like trying to write left handed. Some like and some never get used to it.

Last edited by hypertrophyy; 10-24-2007 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 10-24-2007, 03:56 AM   #54
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Quote:
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I do standard shift and havent had any problems at any of the CMRAs tracks. My endurance team mates do gp and I dont think they have had any problems either. It is just shifting gears after all
-Gabe
my team mates did GP so I changed the street bike to GP as well. I could never remember to change the shifter while getting on the bike for my hour so I would be stuck with GP the whole stint. Troy Green also runs standard.
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Old 10-24-2007, 08:01 AM   #55
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Mindset. I used both, and sometimes back to back. I merely tell my brain: "Down to go faster" when on GP shift bikes. Simple. Effective. Works for me.
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:31 AM   #56
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^^^^^+1 'Cept I say "stomp the upshift" when I was changing over to GP shift.

I like it better for two main reasons, and I don't ride anything else that doesn't have GP shift (right now):

1. No accidental downshift mid-corner or in a bad spot (much easier to accidentally downshift when you push down on the shifter than pull up)

2. Upshifting at lean is much easier. I have big feet, drag my toes regularly, and having my foot under the shifter is a poor option at best. I have a little fear that I may get my foot trapped under the shifter for some reason... may not be realistic, but it's in my head anyway.


I now have a quick shifter, and with the quickshifter bikes I have ridden in the past, GP pattern was very nice to have with that feature.

YMMV, I just like it better.
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:53 AM   #57
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Pro 1: You can shift at full lean and not break concentration or drive or lean.

Example: Turn 6/7 at Katy. GP shift you hit 3rd to 4th gear midcorner. Regular shift you stand the bike up 10 degrees, foot under the shifter, shift, foot back out, lean back in. On GP I never missed the shift. On regular I would accidentally bump it down a gear trying to get my foot under, then upshift, and be right back in the same gear. I'd have to repeat the process, not mess up, and then go on my way. All told, I could lose 1/2 second on one botched shift, or 1/4 second if done right vs GP shift. In an 8 lap sprint race one botched shift can lose a finish position, easy.

Con 1: Downshifting:

Downside is that coming into a braking / downshift zone you lose some feel at the lever and occassionally miss a downshift. But recall, you are braking almost straight up, so it might throw you off a little in corner entry speed, but that is far less critical than exit speed on a racetrack. But, this only happens every once in a while, ussually when you have brain fade from being exhausted.

Up and Down are not the same.

Down uses muscles plus gravity. And the muscle used is large and it is accustomed to pushing down all day to help a human balance and support weight while standing or walking.

Up is less natural. This muscle is used mainly to overcorrect balance issues and lift the foot over obstacles. Not commonly used, so motor control is lacking in most people.

Example: Why is shifting into neutral is so hard in regular shift bike, and so darn easy when going GP shift? Muscle control and familiarity with feedback.

Another example: Driving. How smooth are you if you had to pull on a gas pedal to drive, versus push on it? I can modulate like 1/20 of an inch pushing, pulling is a crapshoot. Only a pro soccer player has the upward agility and feel, developed in years of playing, to be able to pull with equal agility as push.
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:56 AM   #58
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The old Honda three wheelers used to be one up and four down (auto clutch), it was weird getting off of one and on to a motorcycle with a regular pattern...you would find yourself up shifting at really inopportune moments..
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Old 10-24-2007, 10:17 AM   #59
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Quote:
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Pro 1: You can shift at full lean and not break concentration or drive or lean.

Example: Turn 6/7 at Katy. GP shift you hit 3rd to 4th gear midcorner. Regular shift you stand the bike up 10 degrees, foot under the shifter, shift, foot back out, lean back in. On GP I never missed the shift. On regular I would accidentally bump it down a gear trying to get my foot under, then upshift, and be right back in the same gear. I'd have to repeat the process, not mess up, and then go on my way. All told, I could lose 1/2 second on one botched shift, or 1/4 second if done right vs GP shift. In an 8 lap sprint race one botched shift can lose a finish position, easy.

Con 1: Downshifting:

Downside is that coming into a braking / downshift zone you lose some feel at the lever and occassionally miss a downshift. But recall, you are braking almost straight up, so it might throw you off a little in corner entry speed, but that is far less critical than exit speed on a racetrack. But, this only happens every once in a while, ussually when you have brain fade from being exhausted.

Up and Down are not the same.

Down uses muscles plus gravity. And the muscle used is large and it is accustomed to pushing down all day to help a human balance and support weight while standing or walking.

Up is less natural. This muscle is used mainly to overcorrect balance issues and lift the foot over obstacles. Not commonly used, so motor control is lacking in most people.

Example: Why is shifting into neutral is so hard in regular shift bike, and so darn easy when going GP shift? Muscle control and familiarity with feedback.

Another example: Driving. How smooth are you if you had to pull on a gas pedal to drive, versus push on it? I can modulate like 1/20 of an inch pushing, pulling is a crapshoot. Only a pro soccer player has the upward agility and feel, developed in years of playing, to be able to pull with equal agility as push.
very good input/example. What I mean "up and down" in sense that if you upshift you will be down shift just as much. If you are going up in three gears on the straight, you will go down 3 gears and brake in the next corner.

Pushing a gas pedal is just ergonomics, it's easier to stay on the pedal for a long period of time.
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Old 10-24-2007, 10:36 AM   #60
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Quote:
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If you are going up in three gears on the straight, you will go down 3 gears and brake in the next corner.
ummm you might want to rethink that... Im assuming you've been to the track? you don't always upshift the same amount as downshift in a corner. Your shift combination of up/down will change from corner to corner. You might shift 3 in the straight and down only 2 before the next corner.
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