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Old 10-11-2007, 02:05 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paniro187 View Post
by the way carbs have smoother on/off throttle cause the fuel as to flow more through the carb as you get on it. fuel injection is more jerky on/off throttle.
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Old 10-11-2007, 02:16 PM   #42
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well ok I should change what I said to that I prefer carb over fi... there are advantages to both, and yes fi is cleaner emmissions and can give better gas milage although on a bike how much would it really matter? in a car yeah thats a significant differance


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Old 10-11-2007, 03:06 PM   #43
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since you're being bull headed about it. funny the people no better are saying it doesn't really matter. Not saying i knkow all because believe me a i knkow far from all but i know there is no reason to pick a bike just because it is not fuel injected.

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there are advantages to both
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fuel injection isn't necessarily better....it's more convenient.
Fuel injection is better because it's more convenient.
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Old 10-11-2007, 03:10 PM   #44
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... starting perhaps? My old intruder was a to get started on cold mornings. Didn't get it within 2 tries, walk off and come back 30minutes late to try again.
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Old 10-11-2007, 06:27 PM   #45
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... starting perhaps? My old intruder was a to get started on cold mornings. Didn't get it within 2 tries, walk off and come back 30minutes late to try again.
weren't tuned right jsut sounds like a problem to me not "because of the carbs"
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Old 10-11-2007, 07:11 PM   #46
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FI boasts better fuel economy... why? Efficiency; i.e. the computer can control output from pressure to pulse width; where as a general vacuum-to-meter set-up on a carburator. Fuel injection monitors engine speed, air density, on an on I can go to provide optimum mixture for performance at set rpm; where as a carburator dumps a 'squirt' of gas into channel when rolling on throttle before venturi vacuum can accomidate the increase from flow.

More complicated? sure... but we don't have to do any of the mathematics, both systems set and go. FI continually adapts and carb is set to general metering.

Racers that use carb set ups do so for ease of compatablilty of products. Once cams, intakes, exhausting and so on are changed(even altitude changes) easier to change a metering rod in a carb then remap a system; performance at idle is not an issue in the race world. The BMW Formula idles at 7krpms. ten cylinder engine weights 320lbs and redlines somewhere around 18krpms. It measures air intake by cylinder liters(like what industrial companies send cleaner in) per second. If someone would like the specs I have for this engine, let me know, have it at work.

Out of class example: the cars we work on have direct injection, variable timing camshafts(24 deg both directions on all four cams), does have a throttle but uses valve opening to control idle... I can go on. Even spray pattern is changed from the injector(which doesn't use a coil winding to operate but crystals) to cool the cylinder and optimize burn for fuel economy and performance.

It's like choosing between Dotmatrix and ur new 2GB processor notebook.

I own both, appreciate both for what they are... It's your choice...
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Old 10-11-2007, 07:20 PM   #47
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my 02 is carbed and its a pain in the to mess with the carbs, but i think i got it all straight now. i will be selling it soon looking for an 05 instead.
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:31 AM   #48
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i like fuel injected. love the fact that i can start the bike cold and not having to worry about it shutting off on it. my r6 was a carb, and man during the winter, it would me off.
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:41 AM   #49
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Quote:
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weren't tuned right jsut sounds like a problem to me not "because of the carbs"
The carbs is the trouble for majority of cold start, easy to flood that if you don't know how to start it right. What is tuning? Right fuel/air mixture, correct ignition timing.
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:42 AM   #50
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i like fuel injected. love the fact that i can start the bike cold and not having to worry about it shutting off on it. my r6 was a carb, and man during the winter, it would me off.
I am not the only one that feels this way.
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:56 AM   #51
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I think people here are just getting confused with what works versus what doesnt and what's more convenient versus not.

Carbs and FI both work and are both good in their own form and have their individual application which each excels in. Just because someone can't work with carbs or has a hard time with them doesn't mean they're not as good as the other, just means YOU don't know how to work with them and are finding something to blame for your struggles.

carbs require a bit more maintenance? yeah perhaps...
not as complex as FI? yeah probably...
both can do a of a job? if properly tuned...
both have their kinks and issues here and there? absolutely...
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Old 10-12-2007, 11:09 AM   #52
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Quote:
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I think people here are just getting confused with what works versus what doesnt and what's more convenient versus not.

Carbs and FI both work and are both good in their own form and have their individual application which each excels in. Just because someone can't work with carbs or has a hard time with them doesn't mean they're not as good as the other, just means YOU don't know how to work with them and are finding something to blame for your struggles.

carbs require a bit more maintenance? yeah perhaps...
not as complex as FI? yeah probably...
both can do a of a job? if properly tuned...
both have their kinks and issues here and there? absolutely...

carbs is old school thinking

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Old 10-12-2007, 02:48 PM   #53
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Quote:
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i'm not saying carbs are better than injection. Just that the reasons people usually provide as to why injection is better than carbs are usually misguided or really mostly pushed by the "injection is newer" thought.
I have to agree with this. Before I bought my "old" R1, I looked a little into the carb vs. FI issue because of hearing talk about how FI is better. Each has advantages and disadvantages over the other. If a carbed bike is well-tuned it can run just as good or even better than a FI bike.
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Old 10-12-2007, 02:50 PM   #54
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FI less maintence
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Old 10-12-2007, 03:17 PM   #55
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FI rocks over carbs. Carbs hold fuel in the atmosphere which means as they sit, the gas evaporates, and leaves behind goo. All arbed bikes need to be started once a week or so, or run out of gas on the off position or, over time, they will all get gummed and need some cleaning. I've done probably 100 carb rebuilds and they are absolutely no fun, period.

Fi can sit for months, even years, with no gummy deposits to speak of. Fuel is trapped by the closed injectors. And when it does get gummy, you still have a pump with necessary PSI to pump the bits and pieces thru the injector.

So, if you don't ride for 6 months and leave your bike sitting FI rules.

Carbs are just compromises all around. Fuel metering is spotty. We need 12.5 parts fuel to 1 part air, by wiehgt, for ideal combustion. But a bike will run at prolly 11.0 to 1 to 14.5 to 1 without a the rider knowing the difference.

Carbs feeling better to a rider are just personal taste. Maybe a ZX7 has a lot of flywheel weight vs a gsxr, you think? Maybe your right wrist is overactive.

FI FTW. Carbs to the dumpster. No, not because newer is better, but because better is better. If everyone wanted a carb feel to the powerband, the engineers would just engineer the fuel / ignition map to give that old school feel.
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Old 10-12-2007, 04:42 PM   #56
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Carbs suck at high altitude. Has anyone ever ridden or a drive a carb car on the mountains in west coast? No need adjustment with the FI bikes or cars, it will self calibrate and adjust according. That my friend, you can take it to the bank and get a loan for a latest and greatest.
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