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Old 09-24-2007, 10:44 AM   #221
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I disagree to an extent. I'm thinkin that that which you are suggesting lacks precedent. Besides,simply being a repeat offender does not warrant automatic elevation of the charges, there are certain justifications necessary to be made. A repeat offense, given the merits of this particular case, would only warrant the elevation of the charges within the same tier of crime- NOT an elevation in tier quid pro quo a legitimate elevation in charges with considerations given to past offenses: assault and battery to aggravated assault, illegitimate elevation of charges with considerations given to past offenses: assault and battery to attempted murder.

Let's think about it, a charge of assault and battery in and of itself covers when an individual one person "1) tries to or does physically strike another, or 2) acts in a threatening manner to put another in fear of immediate harm" while aggravated assault/battery refers to an instance where "1) tries to or does cause severe injury to another, or 2) causes injury through use of a deadly weapon". There is still an issue/question of the severity of the victims' injuries, so a prosecutor would already be hard pressed to justify "aggravated" assault- absent the perpetrator's prior charges- so imagine the prospects of an attempted murder charge, again, prior charges withstanding. I would venture to guess that the merits of this particular case given the victim was treated and released from care within a three hour period and that he was able to attend a later function in and of itself warrants the lesser of that class/tier of crime and an assault and battery charge would suffice, because I have a hard time believing that a hospital would not keep you over night for observation, but rather, release you within such a short amount of time IF your injuries weren't relatively minor. Our suspect however, does have a prior arrest record, which just so happens to involve the same type of crime-assault/battery, it is expected that the prosecution would look to elevate the charges to a level coherent with the facts related to this case. In my mind, based on those items mentioned above would entail an aggravated assault charge. An attempted murder charge would need to justified by the prosecutions ability to prove that our suspect had the intent to kill; both the means by which the suspect perpetrated the act AND the victims injuries sustained in the act, would need to be consistent with the aforementioned charge- you cannot simply change the tier/class of a crime on the basis of the suspect being a repeat offender.

There is simply no justification for an attempted murder charge. THIS is what the issue is, race should have nothing to do with it. Think about the merits of the case.

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Old 09-24-2007, 01:53 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by CaJuNsOuLjA View Post
I disagree to an extent. I'm thinkin that that which you are suggesting lacks precedent. Besides,simply being a repeat offender does not warrant automatic elevation of the charges, there are certain justifications necessary to be made. A repeat offense, given the merits of this particular case, would only warrant the elevation of the charges within the same tier of crime- NOT an elevation in tier quid pro quo a legitimate elevation in charges with considerations given to past offenses: assault and battery to aggravated assault, illegitimate elevation of charges with considerations given to past offenses: assault and battery to attempted murder.

Let's think about it, a charge of assault and battery in and of itself covers when an individual one person "1) tries to or does physically strike another, or 2) acts in a threatening manner to put another in fear of immediate harm" while aggravated assault/battery refers to an instance where "1) tries to or does cause severe injury to another, or 2) causes injury through use of a deadly weapon". There is still an issue/question of the severity of the victims' injuries, so a prosecutor would already be hard pressed to justify "aggravated" assault- absent the perpetrator's prior charges- so imagine the prospects of an attempted murder charge, again, prior charges withstanding. I would venture to guess that the merits of this particular case given the victim was treated and released from care within a three hour period and that he was able to attend a later function in and of itself warrants the lesser of that class/tier of crime and an assault and battery charge would suffice, because I have a hard time believing that a hospital would not keep you over night for observation, but rather, release you within such a short amount of time IF your injuries weren't relatively minor. Our suspect however, does have a prior arrest record, which just so happens to involve the same type of crime-assault/battery, it is expected that the prosecution would look to elevate the charges to a level coherent with the facts related to this case. In my mind, based on those items mentioned above would entail an aggravated assault charge. An attempted murder charge would need to justified by the prosecutions ability to prove that our suspect had the intent to kill; both the means by which the suspect perpetrated the act AND the victims injuries sustained in the act, would need to be consistent with the aforementioned charge- you cannot simply change the tier/class of a crime on the basis of the suspect being a repeat offender.

There is simply no justification for an attempted murder charge. THIS is what the issue is, race should have nothing to do with it. Think about the merits of the case.

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Not going to read all of it but, all I am saying is he is being held as a repeat violent offender. What he ends up being charged with will be decided in court as for now of course they are keeping him under the highest charges. That is how the game works. Higher charges equal higher bail. It's all about money.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:57 PM   #223
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Not going to read all of it but, all I am saying is he is being held as a repeat violent offender. What he ends up being charged with will be decided in court as for now of course they are keeping him under the highest charges. That is how the game works. Higher charges equal higher bail. It's all about money.
LMAO, o-k!

A cliff note would be that there is no precedent for raising the tier/class of a crime strictly on the basis of the suspect being a repeat offender, though there is precedent for raising the severity of the charge within the same class of crime, given the same circumstances ala assault and battery to aggravated assault and battery.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:58 PM   #224
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As for the nooses... anybody would take offense to this but, is it a criminal offense? Only if there is a law stating nooses should not be hung from trees... and most likely in LA it is the opposite... they probably have a law that says you should pick a sizeable tree for a noose.

But seriously... the problem is... hanging nooses in a tree does not constitute an act of violence. Beating somebodies does. Now if they can persuade someone to believe that hanging a noose is a hate crime then they may be able to get some charges dropped or lighter sentences. The kid that is a repeat offender is going to be screwed no matter what though.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:58 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody View Post
all I am saying is he is being held as a repeat violent offender. What he ends up being charged with will be decided in court as for now of course they are keeping him under the highest charges. That is how the game works. Higher charges equal higher bail. It's all about money.
Ok but ALL 6 are being charged with ATTEMPTED MURDER.

REGARDLESS on prior's or not, THIS INCIDENT didn't warrant that charge, I'll give u the repeat offender, BUT NOT ALL 6
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:00 PM   #226
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LMAO, o-k!

A cliff note would be that there is no precedent for raising the tier/class of a crime strictly on the basis of the suspect being a repeat offender though there is precedent for raising the severity of the charge within the class given the same circumstances ala assault and battery to aggravated assault and battery.
Sounds good, I have not studied that far into law to comment specifically on how sentencing and charges work with repeat cases but, you and I both know the courts can do just about anything they want once you are in custody you are at their mercy.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:00 PM   #227
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Quote:
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As for the nooses... anybody would take offense to this but, is it a criminal offense? .
hate crimes ring in on this one, buring a cross in front of someones yard is a hate crime.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:04 PM   #228
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Ok but ALL 6 are being charged with ATTEMPTED MURDER.

REGARDLESS on prior's or not, THIS INCIDENT didn't warrant that charge, I'll give u the repeat offender, BUT NOT ALL 6
What do you think it should be?

Maybe the 6:1 ratio changes what charges can be applied?

Simply though, they are being charged but, they will have their day in court to contest all charges. After their day in court is when we will find out what they are sentenced with.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:05 PM   #229
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hate crimes ring in on this one, buring a cross in front of someones yard is a hate crime.
I stated that if they can use the noose in the tree as a hate crime it would be to their advantage but, I do not know how the law sees this in LA.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:08 PM   #230
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Well just at the tip of my research now it seems that the act of hanging a noose in a tree would first have to be a crime. If this was a crime and it could be determined it was fueled by race then it could be elevated to a hate crime and this would affect the penalties for the initial crime.

So, there may be the loop hole that is causing so much fustration.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:25 PM   #231
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Sounds good, I have not studied that far into law to comment specifically on how sentencing and charges work with repeat cases but, you and I both know the courts can do just about anything they want once you are in custody you are at their mercy.
Very true, the courts can technically do just about anything they'd like so long as they were not challenged on it (that is exactly what all this fuss is about). If you'd like, I can link you to a few different cases...
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:28 PM   #232
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Ok but ALL 6 are being charged with ATTEMPTED MURDER.

REGARDLESS on prior's or not, THIS INCIDENT didn't warrant that charge, I'll give u the repeat offender, BUT NOT ALL 6
I'll have to agree with Moody and also echo a previous post of mine.

Quite often heavy charges will be filed then later reduced. The DA will do this for a number a reasons - raised bail, to coerce a confession, as a token for plea bargain, etc.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:43 PM   #233
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this is the whole problem....Courts doing what they want.....this is why we are at this point now...the justice system is not wanting to follow the rules across the board.....
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:53 PM   #234
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this is the whole problem....Courts doing what they want.....this is why we are at this point now...the justice system is not wanting to follow the rules across the board.....
I was wondering when you were gonna get on here and provide a lil louisiana insight...perspective...
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:59 PM   #235
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this is the whole problem....Courts doing what they want.....this is why we are at this point now...the justice system is not wanting to follow the rules across the board.....
Are you referring to the fact that some of those kids were being charged as an adult?

On the topic of charging minors as adults, I'm going to argue the other side of the coin here for a minute. Suppose a 16 or 17 year old has been convicted of more than one serious crime (Class A & B Misdemeanors, Felonies). Is it possible to say that this minor is no longer under the control of his/her parents? Is that why it's possible to be charged as an adult? Who is to be held accountable? If the parents can't control these kids then who will? At that point I believe it's up to the justice system.
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:24 PM   #236
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Are you referring to the fact that some of those kids were being charged as an adult?

On the topic of charging minors as adults, I'm going to argue the other side of the coin here for a minute. Suppose a 16 or 17 year old has been convicted of more than one serious crime (Class A & B Misdemeanors, Felonies). Is it possible to say that this minor is no longer under the control of his/her parents? Is that why it's possible to be charged as an adult? Who is to be held accountable? If the parents can't control these kids then who will? At that point I believe it's up to the justice system.
Most of the argument, as far as I am aware is that they were being charged with attempted murder, the trying them as adults was a secondary issue...
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:38 PM   #237
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Most of the argument, as far as I am aware is that they were being charged with attempted murder, the trying them as adults was a secondary issue...
But the people that are protesting want these kids to get off scott free. That's why there's so much emphasis on the noose incident even though it's been reported that there's no connection between that and the beating. They want to use that as justification for the kid getting beat up.

What do we want in this country? Do we want to send the message that vigilante justice is ok? If something offends you then you have the right to use deadly force against someone else?
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:49 PM   #238
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But the people that are protesting want these kids to get off scott free. That's why there's so much emphasis on the noose incident even though it's been reported that there's no connection between that and the beating. They want to use that as justification for the kid getting beat up.
Weeellllll, that's where they lose me...I personally think the guys who whooped the boy (independent of the noose incident) deserve punishment, justice should be blind to color or creed. I can only speak to the merits of this case individually, sadly, mines is not the prevalent outlook.

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What do we want in this country? Do we want to send the message that vigilante justice is ok? If something offends you then you have the right to use deadly force against someone else?
In the name of accuracy, they did not use deadly force...second, the beating was not in direct response to the noose incident. It may have however been an indirect result in that racial tensions had built significantly immediately succeeding the event. This incident was proceeded by other events...
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Old 09-24-2007, 04:42 PM   #239
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Very true, the courts can technically do just about anything they'd like so long as they were not challenged on it (that is exactly what all this fuss is about). If you'd like, I can link you to a few different cases...
PM me those links. I know this is not the first because I followed a few in the past but, time is a limited resource now days.
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Old 09-24-2007, 04:44 PM   #240
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PM me those links. I know this is not the first because I followed a few in the past but, time is a limited resource now days.
No prob, I'll be leavin' the office here pretty soon though, so I'll shoot um to you in the mornin...


you have a lexis nexis login, you'll need one?
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