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Old 09-07-2007, 06:43 PM   #61
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It was my very first trackday in level 1 on 3 session.
1st session round robin, 2nd session instructor wasn't available, 3rd session followed a subsitute instructor. I guess it was my fault for trying to keep up his pace when he tapped on his tail section. Turn 10 stills haunt me to this very day.:/: Hence the screenname Level5 because I could drag my head and body.
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:19 AM   #62
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Quote:
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If the insturctors worked on placing people in the proper groups do you think that this would help with the flow of the pace in each group?
I'm pretty sure it would help traffic flow a bit but there will be slow ones. That's when you start picking them out and move people up and down. Just gotta trust the instructor judgement. Pick out fast and slow people in the AM and move people. Last trackday at TWS (Texas World Speedway) there was a good instructor out there that watched out for faster rider in Level 1. Level 5 asked to come out and video some new people that came up with us. One instructor stop them at the end of the session to tell them to slow down or move up. Of course level 5 was riding in level 4 in the first place. Picking out fast ones out of level 1 should help some people cause they are not being scared by someone that is zipping by them. It does get faster and there will be people that are scared. Can't force level 2 people to come to level 4 if they get scared easy. 1 and 2 are always packed. level 3 and 4 should hold their own cause they know its in/out passing. my 2cent
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:38 AM   #63
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so is there 4 sessions 15 minutes long?
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Old 09-08-2007, 10:48 AM   #64
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so is there 4 sessions 15 minutes long?
only three groups with 20 min session each. Level 1, level2, level 3 & 4.
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Old 09-08-2007, 01:38 PM   #65
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nooooo 3 is the race class and the combine that class with group 4 usually. Group 4 usually has 15 or so people running in it.
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Old 09-08-2007, 01:46 PM   #66
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4 years ago+.... THe T-days from every Org. Was full with 30 riders in each class. Its like this still with certian orgs. I can't remember many a time when Ride Smart let a crazy number over 30 on the track at one time. Not saying it never happend. Probably wasn't there those days.

You can look up plenty of times when CMRA had races with 35+ people on the grid fighting for 1st on a track like Oak Hill!!! Now tell me that doesnt get crouded. On that track there is 1 line in most spots unless you a top lvl rider.
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Old 09-08-2007, 02:39 PM   #67
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in the cmra race you can stuff but in L1 and L2 passing on the outside only. They aren't to experience for them to be passing in the inside. Even I'm a little worried when I pass on the inside( could I hold my line or will i end up drifting out ). I'm no pro but I Don't want to take no one out. I'll do it when I have to or really want to get around you. Don't like stuffing much but will do it when needed. Some people in L2 would like to step up to l4 but don't know if they can handle it. Must be a way to improve safety and traffic flow. Sometime ya gotta be an a$$ but hey.
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Old 09-08-2007, 06:14 PM   #68
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Ridesmart is good for me. Nuff said.
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:52 PM   #69
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daing,so throw racers who are practicing on the same track time as riders who are learning the "race lines".does not make any sence.kinda like the two "c" groups on LSTD.yeah it works but the more advanced are taking a big chance with the ones learning.IMHO
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:56 PM   #70
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Quote:
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i had a decent experience with them this past monday with the exception being that i felt that some level 2 riders should have been level 1 in order to allow level 2 to progress further without the unpredictability of the lesser riders.
Thats funny because a guy came into my shop the other day and said he was gonna be at the track day with Ride Smart, it was going to be his first trackday and he was going to level 2 because he heard level 1 is too crowded and slow
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Old 09-09-2007, 02:38 PM   #71
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Quote:
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kinda like the two "c" groups on LSTD.
Two "C" Groups? Can you clarify?

Do you mean when we've been at Cresson and ran the original track for the CMRA folks and the new track for the Street riders... where we've basically had three Groups, but possibly two B's and a C, or one B and two C's?

If so, the only time we do this is if A-Group sign-ups are practically non-existant on the new track at Cresson .... so we take a look at how many B and C Group sign-ups we have and balance accordingly.

More B-Group folks, then two B-Groups... one with folks a little faster than the other Group obviously. Same applies for C-Group if the sign-ups dictate.

We only have to do this at Cresson on the new track though. In a perfect world, we'd have three Groups and be done with it. Of course, that doesn't happen all the time so we do what we can to deliver the best "balance" possible.
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Old 09-09-2007, 03:34 PM   #72
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My feelings toward Ridesmart are not good. I have not ridden any ridesmart trackdays this year and do not intend to. Last year every ridesmart event I attended was extremely crowded (oversold). Myself and two other trackday regulars (all of us MH members) emailed ridesmart - none of us to this day have ever received any type of response - NOTHING! My email was sent October 26th, 2006. I have some other minor complaints - paid for / never received video, etc; not deal breakers, just annoyances. The deal breaker for me was no response to any of our emails. Attached is a copy of the email I sent - the actual email included all my phone numbers - no response - nothing.
Email sent to ridesmart 10/25/2006:
Dave - You have asked us for suggestions to improve safety. I did not want to bring this up publicly in the riders meetings, so here it is in, a more discrete format. I THINK YOU ARE PUTTING TOO MANY RIDERS ON THE TRACK. You discuss in the meetings, about learning, not dicing it up, racing with your buddies,etc. Dave - that sounds neat, but that's just not what we all do this for. We come to the track to ride hard, and improve our skills in the controlled environment a track offers, as opposed to doing so on the street. Of course we all want to learn, and improve our riding skills, but in doing so we all hope to safely get faster - anyone who tells you otherwise is not being honest. No one attends track days to get slower. No one starts in the fast group in hopes of eventually working their way down to the slowest group. I don't know anything about your finances, but I am assuming you are wanting to make a profit. I may be the exception (I don't think so), but I personally would prefer to pay more per track day, to ride in a smaller group. The large groups cut into our ride time in a lot of ways, in addition to being less safe. It takes longer to: register / tech / gather for riders meetings / assemble for time on the track / it takes longer to send all the groups out / clear the track at the end of each session / it takes longer to feed us, everything takes longer, cutting in to the riders track time. The larger groups become nearly impossible for the instructors to properly monitor and police. This leads to frustration, and when you do get on the track, you as a rider feel a sense of urgency to do all you can because you have waited so long for your track time. This urgent and inpatient environment leads to more crashes, which causes the whole mess to snowball, because crashes eat up even more time, which leads to more frustration, more of a feeling of urgency to push hard on the track, etc, etc. I had a guy sideswipe me from behind on a straight - a - way in level 4, damaging the fairing on my 2006 cbr 1000. We were fortunate not to fall, and by the time I had gathered my composure he was disappearing into a huge crowd of bikes and I never for sure could identify him to talk to him about it. I've never had another bike hit me anywhere, and I've been riding on the street for over 40 years and on the track off and on for over 20 years, including several years of endurance racing back in the 80's in heavyweight superbike. I have done many track days (about 20 this year) and Ridesmart is by far the most crowded. I don't have statistics or facts, but I am reasonably sure there are by far more wrecks at the ridesmart track days. This ain't rocket science - there's more wrecks in cities in rush hour than in light traffic. Our group spent a lot of time and money to travel from the Corpus Christi area to Cresson for very little ride time. Lorenzo - in our group, says he will never do another Ridesmart @ Cresson. Bill York has read this letter prior to my submitting it to you and says he agrees. I normally ride from 150 -180 miles at a track day. I rode 109 miles at this one, of which about 20 were leading a group of level 2 riders in the round robin at your request (which I was very happy to do), leaving me about 80 miles riding in the group I paid to ride in. I wish you and the powers to be would seriously consider limiting the groups to less than 30 people. I like you Dave and I like your wife and all the guys in your organization - I try to help any way I can, and will continue to do so, however I really am getting to where I am uncomfortable from a safety standpoint with ridesmart due to the congestion on the track.
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Old 09-09-2007, 09:08 PM   #73
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I personally like traffic, its a challenge to work your way through. I race and as a racer you have to be able to move through traffic to get to the podium position. but if the speed levels are greatly different there is a safety issue. at Ride Smart cresson 3 weeks ago there was a person going way to slow in level 1, that truly was a safety issue and i dont think that person should have been on the track.

the way i see it........ If you cant get through traffic at speed, that is something you can work on.
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Old 09-09-2007, 09:12 PM   #74
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also if you mentioned something about wrecking.......you probably havent been paying enough attention(ahead) or were following to closely. try keith codes book about riding techniques. I also dont have a preference of either Ride Smart or lstd.
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Old 09-09-2007, 09:48 PM   #75
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Quote:
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Thats funny because a guy came into my shop the other day and said he was gonna be at the track day with Ride Smart, it was going to be his first trackday and he was going to level 2 because he heard level 1 is too crowded and slow
That's the problem with some ppl... they think they are too fast and know too much... sure there are lots of talented peeps out there... but I for one bumped myself down to level 1 after being graduated to level 2... heheheh.. I love level 1
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Old 09-09-2007, 10:01 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wimpy View Post
I personally like traffic, its a challenge to work your way through. I race and as a racer you have to be able to move through traffic to get to the podium position. but if the speed levels are greatly different there is a safety issue. at Ride Smart cresson 3 weeks ago there was a person going way to slow in level 1, that truly was a safety issue and i dont think that person should have been on the track.

the way i see it........ If you cant get through traffic at speed, that is something you can work on.
i think the traffic he means is.....

1. too many people in the wrong levels (level 2 riders trying to go level 4 because their friends are in level 4, just an example)

2. or they tried to sign up for level 2, and it was full, so they signed up level 4.

3. also, with a lot of traffic....especially in level 1 and 2....there are more wrecks, which take away time from other levels when they crash
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Old 09-09-2007, 11:12 PM   #77
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30 motorcycles in one group IS traffic. 55 - 60 in one group is nuts!
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Old 09-10-2007, 10:12 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffLSTD View Post
Two "C" Groups? Can you clarify?

Do you mean when we've been at Cresson and ran the original track for the CMRA folks and the new track for the Street riders... where we've basically had three Groups, but possibly two B's and a C, or one B and two C's?

If so, the only time we do this is if A-Group sign-ups are practically non-existant on the new track at Cresson .... so we take a look at how many B and C Group sign-ups we have and balance accordingly.

More B-Group folks, then two B-Groups... one with folks a little faster than the other Group obviously. Same applies for C-Group if the sign-ups dictate.

We only have to do this at Cresson on the new track though. In a perfect world, we'd have three Groups and be done with it. Of course, that doesn't happen all the time so we do what we can to deliver the best "balance" possible.

i'm not sure what was going on.yes this was at Cresson,and it was not a problem per-se,just a little cofusing.it was the green group.it included the guys doing the round robins and other not doing them.thats the group i started on i could not hardly ride at any kind of speed and not pass someone.the next session i was moved up and confusion was gone.i wound up riding the blue group the rest of the day and had a blast following a couple of guys and copying their lines .i never have been to a Ride Smart event and actually rode(got rained out both times)but it did look awfully crowded for one track.maybe Ride Smart needs to break the track in two also,even though the whole track will probably be crazy cool.
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Old 09-10-2007, 10:14 AM   #79
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Quote:
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30 motorcycles in one group IS traffic. 55 - 60 in one group is nuts!
well i'm coming up for one monday and if its this crowded,it will be my last.rather follow LSTD or Elite trackday orgs
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Old 09-10-2007, 11:11 AM   #80
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Quote:
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30 motorcycles in one group IS traffic. 55 - 60 in one group is nuts!
Agreed wayyyy too many.
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