Welcome back to us :/ Our hosts data center was down for the entire day.
MotoHouston.com MotoHouston.com
Register Members List Member Map Media Calendar Garage Forum Home Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MotoHouston.com > General Discussion > Taking it to the Track
Forgot info?

Welcome to MotoHouston.com! You are currently viewing our forums as a guest which gives you limited access to the community. By joining our free community you will have access to great discounts from our sponsors, the ability to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content, free email, classifieds, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, join our community!

Register Today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.


Like us on Facebook! Regular shirt GIVEAWAYS and more

Advertisement

Closed Thread
Share This Thread: 
Subscribe to this Thread Thread Tools
Old 08-27-2007, 06:05 PM   #41
jimmy"zx6
Banned
 
jimmy"zx6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Katy, Texas
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 2,796


Bike(s):
2005 kawasaki 636,2004 zx10r









User is banned

.
jimmy"zx6 is offline  
Similar Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should safety wiring oil plug/filter be required at track days? Pre-K Taking it to the Track 52 10-23-2014 05:24 PM
Fck your safety environment at the track.. Race video floyd600 Taking it to the Track 16 11-23-2011 01:23 PM
Fck your safety environment at the track floyd600 Taking it to the Track 0 11-21-2011 08:19 PM
Advertisement
Old 08-27-2007, 06:06 PM   #42
hypertrophyy
Senior Member
 
hypertrophyy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodlands
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 706


Bike(s):
07 600rr track









Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid View Post
BTW, if you know what is good for you, you will never call her Pat!
i dont know who she is....... didn't feel like typing out her whole name. and after the little disrespectful pm she sent me. i never will.
hypertrophyy is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 06:07 PM   #43
tomLSTD
LSTD Mob Cappo
 
tomLSTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 6,798

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1






Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by arturo3rd View Post
so do yall think having people on a track with at least some sort of written proof they are somewhat capable is not a good idea?
I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I don't think MSF, M endorsement, or much else is going to be adequate. Might be a good starting place, but then you're excluding the kids who race or want to get their license.

By "adequate" I mean that I've seen plenty of people who don't belong on the track without serious instruction who had MSF or M endorsement.

Maybe having staff to evaluate people who are first time track day participants and establish their level of competence- but that would take a lot of folks to do that.
__________________
I am Tyler Durdin's bad attitude.
tomLSTD is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 06:11 PM   #44
jimmy"zx6
Banned
 
jimmy"zx6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Katy, Texas
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 2,796


Bike(s):
2005 kawasaki 636,2004 zx10r









User is banned

.
jimmy"zx6 is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 06:11 PM   #45
arturo3rd
OG Sheriff/ Boss
 
arturo3rd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Meadows Place, TX
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 14,068

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
2015 HD Forty Eight









Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I don't think MSF, M endorsement, or much else is going to be adequate. Might be a good starting place, but then you're excluding the kids who race or want to get their license.

By "adequate" I mean that I've seen plenty of people who don't belong on the track without serious instruction who had MSF or M endorsement.

Maybe having staff to evaluate people who are first time track day participants and establish their level of competence- but that would take a lot of folks to do that.
i know what you mean, but something like the MSF or M endorsement test questions can help weed out those who have riding experince but not riding judgement skills when riding on a track.

a track is like riding on a street with other riders and obstacles (rolling chicanes )
__________________
motobanner new
arturo3rd is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 06:13 PM   #46
tomLSTD
LSTD Mob Cappo
 
tomLSTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 6,798

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1






Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy"zx6 View Post
tom the track is not for everyone and people who can handle whats involve with it should not go there
I agree, Arturo was asking what pre-requesites we thought would be reasonable, and that is the first thing thrown out- MSF, M endorsement, or something similar. I've seen plenty of folks who don't "belong" on the track before, but turned in to very viable and decent trackday participants.
__________________
I am Tyler Durdin's bad attitude.
tomLSTD is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 06:24 PM   #47
dbuck
Stayin' Young
 
dbuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NW Houston BW8/290
Feedback Rating: (5)
Posts: 19,639

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
02 Honda Superhawk









Send a message via AIM to dbuck
You could go on for days about what is needed to participate, but someone will always feel like they are being cheated. Wether it be someone who has ridden for 15 years who carries a M endorsement and feels he is exempt from such policies or someone who took the MSF 2 weeks ago.....Not everyone will want to take the class or meet certain requirements. I've seen plenty of folks with M endorsements that shouldn't have them and plenty of people with DL's that shouldn't have those either. It is a risk, case closed. Just like driving your car, no one guarantees that the fool sitting next to you blaring his music and talking on his cell phone won't run your over. It is a risk, either run with the big dogs or sit your happy on the porch. If the safety concerns you that much, find another sport. MOTORCYCLES ARE DANGEROUS.... I don't feel safe skydiving, therefore, I refrain from jumping out of planes. If people continue to about how everything is done, prices will go up and it will affect us all. No thanks! Thanks to all the track orgs. that help people like me get out there and do what I like best.

Thnks,
DBuck
dbuck is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 06:27 PM   #48
rc51eviltwin
Senior Member
 
rc51eviltwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: ODESSA,TX
Feedback Rating: (1)
Posts: 843

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1











Quote:
Originally Posted by MANSON6 View Post
I won't sign it, Theres just way to much garbage for my reading on it. I feel that both organizations PREACH about safety, They are not in control of the idiot on the bike. They run very professional organizations it's the people that dont listen to the instructors PREACH about the safety aspect of the sessions that hurt fellow riders, It always takes 2 people to cause an accident 1 the person who initiated it and the one received the accident. The person who caused it should have been listening to the instructors and doing what they were told and it would not have happened. It took me 6 trackdays before I ever moved up to the next level and I didn't even consider doing it till I was confident in myself and my ability to deal with the next level riders. You wont get my signiture, I feel all the organiztions do the best they can in trying to keep a safe enviroment, It's the riders that cause the problems MAINLY BY NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES OR THINKING THERE'S AN AMA SCOUT OUT THERE CHECKING THEM OUT.
+ 1
100%

why do you guys keep calling it an incident?isn't that what its called when done purposely?and accident vice-versa.

ah heck you mean they're not looking for Nicky Hayden's replacement yet?
rc51eviltwin is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 06:41 PM   #49
Faylaricia
The Comtesse
 
Faylaricia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NW Houston
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 2,965

Experience: 4 years
Trackdays: 3

Bike(s):
'02 Honda VFR800









Quote:
Originally Posted by hypertrophyy View Post
i dont know who she is....... didn't feel like typing out her whole name. and after the little disrespectful pm she sent me. i never will.
I told you not to call me Pat (my name is in my sig) and I described the incident to you since you implied it was my fault that I got hit, which I am very sensitive to and you weren't there.

Calling me names and whatnot in your return PM was totally uncalled for and just shows what kind of guy you are. :/:
__________________
Patricia
banner2 sm
Faylaricia is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 06:47 PM   #50
Skid
Senior Member
 
Skid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 777

Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
CBR600RR









Quote:
Originally Posted by tomLSTD View Post
He admitted to being reckless and knowingly/ intentionally breaking the rules?

He may have admitted making a few passes- I don't know, I wasn't there- but I didn't know he admitted to be reckless and knowingly/ intentionally breaking the rules...

As I mentioned in previous threads, if some of the stories are true, then the guy was an idiot for breaking the rules, and I would hope that he wasn't intentionally being dangerous and trying to hurt someone. I would be shocked if he did. Judging by his reaction, I seriously doubt that was the case, but nothing is impossible I guess.
Yes, when Patricia and I approached him, we asked what happened. I asked what in the was he trying to do and he said that the group was going to slow and that he was attempting a pass on the inside of Patricia and realized that he wasn’t going to make it and then target fixated on her. Once he did that, he ended up t-boning her. I then told him that I heard from two other people (one being an instructor) that he blew past them on the inside of the same turn before hitting Patricia. He claimed that he was still in the straight when he did that. He probably took a straight line to the inside of the corner while everyone else was on the outside starting to turn into it thus feeling like he was still in the straight. The instructor said that he probably would have blown the turn due to his speed even if Patricia wasn't there. I then asked him if he knew it was against the rules to pass in the corners and he said yes, but it was just too slow for him.
__________________
Skid
__________________
www.D1-Racing.com

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all."
Skid is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 06:56 PM   #51
jimmy"zx6
Banned
 
jimmy"zx6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Katy, Texas
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 2,796


Bike(s):
2005 kawasaki 636,2004 zx10r









User is banned

.
Attached Images
 
jimmy"zx6 is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 06:56 PM   #52
cashtown
Lawyers Guns and Money
 
cashtown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hunt, TX HWY 39
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 7,955

Experience: 10+ years

Bike(s):
'05 Hayabusa '98 ZX-6E









Quote:
Originally Posted by MacMan View Post
Your accounts of this incident act as if we are negligent, irresponsible, and have a lack of regard for safety, and a general disrespect for the rider who got hit. We made a decision and it was unpopular. If the same rider later in the day caused an incident or continued to break any rules he would have been ejected and there could be negligence. Nothing else happended.
I would contend that allowing a rider back onto the track after having caused an accident while breaking the rules is negligent.

The fact that "nothing else happened" is simply good fortune.

Had something else happened, the TD organizers would still have been just as negligent, their negligence now, however, would be grounds for a lawsuit.
__________________
freak20brothers



Fat Freddy says, "Busas are for posing!"
cashtown is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:00 PM   #53
Faylaricia
The Comtesse
 
Faylaricia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NW Houston
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 2,965

Experience: 4 years
Trackdays: 3

Bike(s):
'02 Honda VFR800









Okay, since everyone keeps mentioning my name (correct or not correct), I just have to pitch in for a moment.

This is just for trackdays in general and doesn't specifically have anything to do with the incident at TWS (Texas World Speedway) in July. Rehashing the thing doesn't cause anything but drama. It is done and over with. If folks learnt from it, great. I know I did. Somehow I have a feeling that the guy who hit me may not have learnt though. He didn't exactly react how one may have expected. Maybe, eventually, it will sink into him.

The following actually brings up a point a friend of mine discussed with me before I ever attended trackdays.

Some people think that trackdays are a free for all. These folks are better off paying $1000 and renting the track for them alone. Steve said it very well in the riders' meeting on Friday "Look around you!" People are responsible for other folks out there and depend on others' responsibility for their own well-being. Trackdays are risky but everyone is willing to enter that risk under the assumption that sportsmanship prevails and people take that responsibility serious. No bone head moves. This is tough stuff, you can get hurt or get killed out there. Trackdays aren't and shouldn't be a free for all. Mistakes happen but before disobeying rules, consider that rules are there to be followed and to make sure it stays as safe under the conditions as possible.

Trackdays are becoming more and more popular. They are promoted to teach safe riding skills, they are associated with riding schools. Anyone on any bike with any kind of skill can sign up for a trackday. But, it takes skill to learn to ride fast. Even if you think you are fast on the street, it takes skill to ride fast on the track. The track is different than the street. You have curve warning signs on the street, speed limits, they make sure you stay within the limits of the road and your basic street skills.

The track is a totally different environment. I've seen riders, who may ride great on the street, continously ending up in the grass on the track. Buck likes to say "You have to be slow to be fast." A very wise man. One has to learn to be fast. And I think that is what many people don't understand. They haul on the street. We tell them, 'take it to the track'. They may think that the track is a place now to ride the bike like a mad out of maniac without any consequences. Riding school? Rules? Pah, the track has no police, no jail, heck, let it all out. Wheelies, hammer the throttle, take your bike to the limit and not get in trouble for it, as someone else here posted.

No. There are rules. Every class has rules. Different rules according to skill level. That is why there are classes. If you are new to the track, swallow your pride, take the lowest class, chill and learn. Don't go out there to let it all out. You still have to consider others' safety, even though you may not care about your own. As they say in the riders' meeting, you will not get a trophy. People still have to go to work when the week starts again. If you don't have that sportsmanship, then maybe you shouldn't be out there.

On the track, the instructors are the police. There are no laws, but there are rules. They are there to make sure it doesn't get out of control out there on the track. Sometimes, riders have to be reminded of that. Sometimes, rules have to evolve to make things clearer.

I hate being the one whose name keeps being mentioned but there is nothing I can do about it. I do like the fact that organizations have taken a look at the situation and depending on involvement are handling it, looking at their rules and try to do what they can.

In the end, as one mentioned, it depends on the riders. Take the track serious. It can be play but within rules. They are there to protect you and others, so we ALL can have fun.
__________________
Patricia
banner2 sm

Last edited by Faylaricia; 08-27-2007 at 07:04 PM. Reason: Grammar
Faylaricia is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:08 PM   #54
Patrick
Motorcycles Unlimited
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 16,368

Experience: 10+ years
Trackdays: 10+

Bike(s):
'14 Speed Triple R, '82 CB900F, '13 Streetglide






I understand many people feeling that the rider at fault for Patricias accident was not dealt with properly, however, it's the past.
From reading multiple post by LSTD personnel, I believe that things have been changed to deal more decisively with an issue in the future.

No matter what, the issue will never have been "resolved properly" in some peoples eyes.
I wasn't there, so I can't say.

However, I can say that in the last 6 years of being involved with track days, LSTD runs one of THE safest organizations around.

Accidents will happen, regardless of the rules.
Anytime you throw a leg over a bike, you accept that risk.
__________________
Call or PM for the BEST PRICES in Houston for PARTS and ACCESSORIES.
MAKE SURE TO MENTION YOU'RE ON MH TO GET THE BEST PRICE!

NEED GEAR? We have a great selection in stock but if we need to order it we GUARANTEE FIT!
Where Houston riders go to have their bikes worked on, done right the first time!


muad

1964 FM 1960 West
Houston, TX 77090
Hours: Tues.-Fri. 9:30-6:00 Sat. 9-5:30
www.motorcycles-unlimited.com
http://www.facebook.com/motorcyclesunlimited
e-mail: patrick@motorcycles-unlimited.com
Patrick is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:12 PM   #55
jimmy"zx6
Banned
 
jimmy"zx6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Katy, Texas
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 2,796


Bike(s):
2005 kawasaki 636,2004 zx10r









User is banned

.
jimmy"zx6 is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:17 PM   #56
tomLSTD
LSTD Mob Cappo
 
tomLSTD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Feedback Rating: (2)
Posts: 6,798

Experience: 1-3 months
Trackdays: 1






Member Garage





Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid View Post
Yes, when Patricia and I approached him, we asked what happened. I asked what in the was he trying to do and he said that the group was going to slow and that he was attempting a pass on the inside of Patricia and realized that he wasn’t going to make it and then target fixated on her. Once he did that, he ended up t-boning her. I then told him that I heard from two other people (one being an instructor) that he blew past them on the inside of the same turn before hitting Patricia. He claimed that he was still in the straight when he did that. He probably took a straight line to the inside of the corner while everyone else was on the outside starting to turn into it thus feeling like he was still in the straight. The instructor said that he probably would have blown the turn due to his speed even if Patricia wasn't there. I then asked him if he knew it was against the rules to pass in the corners and he said yes, but it was just too slow for him.
Fair enough. If you would have approached me and asked me "what the I was trying to do", I think I would have been less than cordial to you too.

Again, I'm not defending anyone (including Patricia) because I wasn't there, but the old saying that there are two sides to every story, is wrong. There are three- one from each party, and then a third, which is usually the whole facts, lies somewhere in between.

As impartial as people may think they are, emotions and relationships will come in to play. That is as it should be, don't get me wrong, but one of the things I have learned from the past 20 some years in my career is that. I get to see it every day at work in one form or another.

As I've said before, it seems the guy was a bone-head if what you say is true. This isn't a discussion about this guy, it's about the way Jesse is taking this issue and it's direction. It's counter-productive, libelous, and defamatory in my opinion; I would think that way no matter who it was about.
__________________
I am Tyler Durdin's bad attitude.
tomLSTD is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:49 PM   #57
hypertrophyy
Senior Member
 
hypertrophyy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Woodlands
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 706


Bike(s):
07 600rr track









Quote:
Originally Posted by Faylaricia View Post
I told you not to call me Pat (my name is in my sig) and I described the incident to you since you implied it was my fault that I got hit, which I am very sensitive to and you weren't there.

Calling me names and whatnot in your return PM was totally uncalled for and just shows what kind of guy you are. :/:


omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get out of here go tiptoe through some tulips


ps .............i was never talking about your accident tard
hypertrophyy is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 08:43 PM   #58
Faylaricia
The Comtesse
 
Faylaricia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NW Houston
Feedback Rating: (0)
Posts: 2,965

Experience: 4 years
Trackdays: 3

Bike(s):
'02 Honda VFR800









Quote:
Originally Posted by hypertrophyy View Post
omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get out of here go tiptoe through some tulips


ps .............i was never talking about your accident tard

Yah, uncalled for and no further comment ... 'nuff said.
__________________
Patricia
banner2 sm
Faylaricia is offline  
Old 08-27-2007, 09:52 PM   #59
bumblebee
Yeah I'm flippin' YOU off
 
bumblebee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Pearland
Feedback Rating: (3)
Posts: 12,270


Bike(s):
'74 Suzuki GT380
'82 XS650 StreetTracker
'10 Ducati Streetfighter
'83 Yamaha Seca 900






So how 'bout them Texans?
bumblebee is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Advertisement


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:44 AM.


MotoHouston.com is not responsible for the content posted by users.
Privacy Policy