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Old 08-26-2016, 07:46 PM   #1
98yamaha
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At a loss. Need some motor help

So I've got a klx110 that's blowing blue smoke out the exhaust and I cannot figure out what it is. It's got new 125cc big bore kit with race head on it that has maybe 12 hours total on it. It started blowing a little bit of smoke about 4 hours ago and has slowly gotten worse. I first thought it was the valve seals since it never felt like it lost compression and was still running well. So I opened the head and replaced all 4 seals (it's got s 4 valve head on it). Checked and shimmed the valve lash to spec and put it back together. Was still blowing smoke after that. So I ordered up new rings and just put them in today. The old ones looked fine, the ring gap was to spec, but I replaced them anyways. The cylinder looks like new, still has the cross hatching on it. Ring gap on the new rings is to spec (within .001 of the old rings actually). Put it all back together, cranked it up and still smokes like crazy. Drained the tank, put in brand new fuel from a different station, still smokes. I took off the header and ran the bike and the smoke is definitely coming from the combustion chamber and not from something burning in the pipe. The only thing I can think of is the head gasket, but it looked brand new so I haven't replaced it. Plus the only place for oil to get into the combustion chamber thru the gasket would be from the timing chain area, and that just doesn't seem that likely to me. The thing actually runs really strong right now and is hard to keep the from wheel down, it just smokes like crazy.
I would be greatful for any ideas or advice that some might have. You can see the video below. (the noisy head is just the way these 4v heads sound)
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Old 08-26-2016, 08:50 PM   #2
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Is it fouling the plug?
Is the air filter over oiled?
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Old 08-26-2016, 09:01 PM   #3
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maybe no comparison but I know if you overfill (or overpressurize) the oil system on a HD, you can get oil blow by out of the exhaust valves that can cause oil burn.

Somehow you're getting more oil into your burn is my thought. Does the bike have oil passages in the head/cylinder connection?
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Old 08-26-2016, 09:28 PM   #4
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my guess would be valve stem seals
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Old 08-26-2016, 10:26 PM   #5
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At a loss. Need some motor help

Compression test yet? Leak down test? Numbers pre and post re-ring? Link to the BBK you installed? Add some anti zika ingredients and sell your mosquito fogging services to the local community, they'll trust you simply because of the smoke left behind. Don't forget the banana fuel scent!
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Old 08-26-2016, 10:32 PM   #6
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Is the race head new or does it have some hours on it ? New valve seals wont seal on a worn out guide . You will need to have a look at it especially if the head is ported were the protruding guide into the port was ground down for flow . This shortens the life span of the guide as there is less of it to do the job so the valve stem can wobble in the guide opening the seal up upon movement allowing oil to run down the valve stem into the combustion chamber .
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Old 08-27-2016, 07:45 AM   #7
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I think you should sell it to me...
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Old 08-27-2016, 08:04 PM   #8
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If it's not the valve guides, another thing to check is there is usually at least one ferrul that fits between the head and cylinder for the oil passages. If these are left out or not fitting properly, the head gasket alone usually won't seal the oil transfer passages well enough to keep oil out of the combustion chamber.
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Old 08-28-2016, 11:13 AM   #9
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I appreciate all the help! Here's some answers for some of the questions asked:
- I don't think it's an over-oiled air filter, as I just pulled the air filter off and ran the bike for 10 minutes and it's still smoking like crazy. Plus the filter just doesn't have that much oil on it that I could even squeeze excess out of it with my hands.
- It's not fouling plugs
-There are no oil passages that come up through the head gasket, it uses an external oil line the goes from the pump to the head. You can see the head gasket it uses in the pic attached
-The race head came with the bbk, and is supposed to be top of the line stuff. It has <12 hours on it, so I would be pretty disappointed if the guides were that worn. They didn't feel worn at all when I pulled the valves out to install the new seals.
-I can't do a compression test because my tester doesn't have a tiny little adapter to fit in the spark plug threads. It needs to be like 5mm. I will say it feels like it's got very good compression, and starts up first kick.
-I have run the oil level at the bottom, middle, top of the oil window, and it doesn't seem to make a difference in how much smoke it's blowing.

I appreciate all the help, please throw any more suggestions my way as I'm trying to get this thing race ready for next weekend.
Thanks
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Old 08-28-2016, 02:26 PM   #10
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Did you put a sealing ring in upside down ?
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Old 08-28-2016, 04:11 PM   #11
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Is there some kind of crankcase ventalation back through the airbox/intake? Hard to believe that would be the issue, but easy to eliminate.
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Old 08-28-2016, 05:35 PM   #12
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I'm 99% sure I put the rings in right side up. I made sure letters were on top and everything. Staggered the gaps as well. I would think if the rings were bad enough to let that much oil through then I would notice a loss in compression, but the thing is actually running really strong, probably the best it ever has with the exception of the smoke..lol
There's no breather from the crank case to the Airbox. There isn't even actually an Airbox on it, it's just a pancake filter on the carb.
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Old 08-28-2016, 05:48 PM   #13
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I'll ask again:
Is the air filter over oiled?
Is it fouling the plug?
How's the crankcase oil-clean/doesn't smell of fuel?
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Old 08-28-2016, 06:23 PM   #14
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When you had the head off, did you check the mating surface to ensure it's not warped or damaged? If you put a piece of emory cloth or fine grit sandpaper on a flat surface and rub the gasket surface of the head across it a couple of times, it will show up. Also check the cylinder head surface especially around the timing chain area. Do you still have the stock head? It really is sounding like a leaky valve guide from what you've mentioned so far.

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Old 08-28-2016, 07:40 PM   #15
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Hey Patrick he covered the air filter question you had a few posts up .
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:45 PM   #16
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So tonight I ran the bike for about 10 minutes (again with the air filter off, just to make sure any possible residual oil filter oil could have burnt off), and again it smoked a ton. So I shut it down, waited for it to cool, then got to work pulling the head off again. As soon as I separated the head from the cylinder jug, I took a pic of the gasket and surface to see if there was any oil between the timing chain area and the cylinder. It looks bone dry, and no indication of carbon deposits, so I'm pretty sure it's not a blown or leaky gasket. You can see the pics attached.
So I then looked at the valves in the combustion chamber and there appears to be a small amount of oil on the intake valve. So I pulled out the intake valves and looked in the ports and there is a small amount of oil pooled in one of the ports and some excess in the other port. You can see the oil pointing to it in the pics. There is some oil that is sitting around the valve stem guide in one of the pics, so I'm concerned oil could possibly be coming around the outside of the valve guides, but it could have just ended up pooling in that area when we were taking the head off and moving it around. If someone has any knowledge about that, please let me know.
It seems more likely that oil is getting down thru the valve seal, but I just put on brand new seals. I'm pretty sure I did this correctly, but I guess there's a chance I could have messed it up somehow. It was pretty much as simple as pulling the old ones off and sliding these over the valve stems onto the guides until the snapped into place. You can see a pic of the new green seals below. I guess it's possible the actual guides are worn, allowing oil thru, but I would be pretty upset if that's the case since this head is very expensive, only has 12 hours on it total, and the entire motor was built by a very reputable shop. I calipered the width of the valve stem top to bottom, and there is no indication of stretch (both valves were exact same thickness top to bottom). I also wiggles the valves back and forth with them in the guides, and there is very little play, at least by feel. I don't really have a way to measure the amount of play unfortunately.

So if anyone read the above and has any advice with what to do from here, I would greatly appreciate it. Look at getting new valve guides? (Think that's gonna be tough to find for this specific head). Maybe look at getting different valves? Is there any good way to test if oil is coming thru the seals and guide, or around the outside? Sorry for the long rant, I really appreciate any help tho. Thanks!
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:48 PM   #17
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The head gasket
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:50 PM   #18
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Oil in intake port
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:50 PM   #19
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New valve seal
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Old 08-30-2016, 05:10 AM   #20
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Take it to Harold in Richmond Tx. AKA harold's machine shop. This is what I expected to see .
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