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Old 08-02-2007, 04:59 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by denhou1974 View Post
Well I have friends who always tell me 'you wouldn't know, you're white'. That makes me feel the same way that you probably felt on the plane. It's all the same.

, it's not my fault that certain people couldn't vote before 1870. I wasn't there, I didn't make the laws. Why even say something like that? During that time half my family was Cherokee Indian, we all know what happened to them - I gonna sit around and be mad about it? No.
I feel you on that. I am not here to try to make you suffer for what people did years ago. Race is obviously a very touch subject, and requires sensitivity when discussed. When people have been wronged over and over, it becomes easier to want others to feel your pain.

That said, I have a serious problem with the people who do things NOW that are racist. History is just that...history, but we must never forget the past. We can learn quite a bit from our mistakes.

And with respect to the 'you wouldn't know you are white' comment, I wont argue that the comment probably hurt you. I have said that before because I have tried to explain it and my explanations have usually met deaf ears. I have non-minority friends who are truly empathetic, but I have come across many more who are completely clueless. A more appropriate response may be 'I dont have the energy to try to help you understand my perspective'.
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:05 PM   #182
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I feel you on that. I am not here to try to make you suffer for what people did years ago. Race is obviously a very touch subject, and requires sensitivity when discussed. When people have been wronged over and over, it becomes easier to want others to feel your pain.

That said, I have a serious problem with the people who do things NOW that are racist. History is just that...history, but we must never forget the past. We can learn quite a bit from our mistakes.

And with respect to the 'you wouldn't know you are white' comment, I wont argue that the comment probably hurt you. I have said that before because I have tried to explain it and my explanations have usually met deaf ears. I have non-minority friends who are truly empathetic, but I have come across many more who are completely clueless. A more appropriate response may be 'I dont have the energy to try to help you understand my perspective'.
You probably got some old white guy who only knows what he sees on TV.

I would've played that one real sarcastic though.

I would've been like "oh yeah, I play ball. They offered me $20K under the table to play for them"
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:17 PM   #183
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You probably got some old white guy who only knows what he sees on TV.

I would've played that one real sarcastic though.

I would've been like "oh yeah, I play ball. They offered me $20K under the table to play for them"
After a while, if people asked if I played basketball I just said yeah. Saves my breath.

trouble is, too many people believe what they see on TV!
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:18 PM   #184
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and with that, I am off to go.......PLAY BASKETBALL (srsly, it is a league playoff game). had fun discussin'. hope we learned something today.
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:28 PM   #185
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We we're doing fine until you 'broke in', Candy. You came in with a chip on your shoulder and something to prove. That always turns out bad in the end.
I HAVE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY to DISCUSS any topic on this board, lol, and u weren't fine with cajun's comments against ur nonsense either, but u ain't barking up his rose bush! And it's submissive of u to say i have a chip on my shoulder or HAVE something to prove, I wouldn't make that mistake if I were u.

Again I apologize if the content of the subject went so far over ur head that UR FEELINGS were hurt, next time when dealing with u I'll handle with MORE CARE.

Have a nice night fellas!
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:36 PM   #186
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I HAVE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY to DISCUSS any topic on this board, lol, and u weren't fine with cajun's comments against ur nonsense either, but u ain't barking up his rose bush! And it's submissive of u to say i have a chip on my shoulder or HAVE something to prove, I wouldn't make that mistake if I were u.

Again I apologize if the content of the subject went so far over ur head that UR FEELINGS were hurt, next time when dealing with u I'll handle with MORE CARE.
Um, yeah ... we were having a perfectly reasonable debate until you stepped in ('broke in' as you called it). Then you started in with the name-calling, personal BS, and that 'masa' comment which is inflammatory. There's no need for any of that here.

Anyone who reads your posts can see that you have a chip on your shoulder. Don't take it bad, I used to be that way too. Let it go.

PM me if you have anything else to say.
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:38 PM   #187
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Discussion about racism and/or religion ALWAYS leads to hurt feelings, misunderstandings, arguments, and each party trying to get their point across to another party who doesn't want to listen b/c they want to get their point back across to the original party at the same time.

Bottom line is, while the severity can be different, ALL RACES / RELIGIONS are discriminated against these days.

I owe on school loans for another 7 years. I wish some of those scholarships that I saw offered were for white males only. Instead, the only ones I saw were either for all races/sexes, or one specific race only (non-white), or for females, or for females of one specific race, or even "all minorities." I NEVER saw any offered for whites only, for males only, or for white males only. I applied for as many as I was qualified for and received none btw. No clue who received them, nor did I care that much. I just know I didn't get them, haha.

I think it's funny that people assume whites can afford college more than others. I don't know anyone that I grew up with that had a college fund. Everyone I grew up with (in school) either didn't go to college, paid their own way through, or went on athletic scholarship. I'm the first person in my family to ever go to college. I'm proud of it and gladly repay my school loans, knowing I did it myself without ANY handouts (that don't need repaid that is, lol).

Another point... blacks and hispanics make fun of whites all the time in shows, comedy sketches, etc. It's FUNNY, I admit. They "talk like white guys", "walk like white guys", etc. I don't ever see a white comedian doing the same thing regarding blacks or hispanics. While I can't say for SURE the reason for this, I would venture to guess it's b/c the white comedians are afraid they'll be labeled as racist. All they are doing is having a little fun. Others do it regularly, so why is it so taboo for whites to do it?

It seems that whites are automatically equated as racist in a LOT of peoples' eyes ANYTIME an issue of race comes up. Example: I might not like a black person b/c of their personality. I bet I could find one person who (if honest) would admit that they think I didn't like that person b/c he/she was black. I know history has set the precedent, but I know I'm not racist so that assumption ticks me off.

EVERY group is discriminated again, bottom line. Each race tends to see the biases AGAINST their own people, and that's cool. I see it against whites (as exampled above) but I also see where other races are coming from with their gripes.

FWIW to qualify myself as not being racist, my g/f is muslim (I am SOOOO sick of everyone equating islam to evil/murder/intolerance/etc). I went to one of the most culturally diverse HS in the nation (in Newsweek back in 94 or 95). I grew up around tons of diff cultures and I am HAPPY to have done so. My ex wife is hispanic. My best friend in HS was black.

Ah well, just my $.02.
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Old 08-02-2007, 06:13 PM   #188
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Old 08-02-2007, 06:31 PM   #189
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This thread stinks of political poo-poo.......
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:10 PM   #190
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:11 PM   #191
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im not gonna read through any of the pages. but i will agree with scooter. they ARE racist. period. only a fool would be blind to that.
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Old 08-02-2007, 08:24 PM   #192
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We all have had life experiences (black, white, asian, etc). But no white person can claim that their life experiences can, in any way, be compared to my life experiences as a black man.
In the USA, I would agree that overall the exceptions would be hard (if not impossible) to find...

However I could tell you some shocking stories from the last 5-10 years on the ongoings in Africa... where whites are recurrant victims of not only racism but some shuddering hate crimes...

So there are indeed places in the world where Whites are the discriminated ones...

I'm just saying that (sadly) all races are victims of racism... it just depends on where you look... (not trying to belittle any argument about the relative importance of making sure it's not allowed to thrive or fester here)

I dunno... I just think trying to legislatively fight it is going to be an uphill battle... I think racism doesn't exist as much as it did forty years ago... Nowadays - I think it depends more on the individuals... not the organizations... by-in-large I'd don't think it's nonexistant... but I don't think there are active (secret) policies by forbes 500 companies to limit the number minorities in upper management (for example)...

I dunno... there just not a clear path to eliminating what remains... I think time will have a better impact on things here - as the USA continues to grow and become more integrated...

Besides... you'll all have to learn spanish pretty soon anyways... :icon_bigg
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Old 08-03-2007, 08:10 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Blue91 View Post
Discussion about racism and/or religion ALWAYS leads to hurt feelings, misunderstandings, arguments, and each party trying to get their point across to another party who doesn't want to listen b/c they want to get their point back across to the original party at the same time.
Bottom line is, while the severity can be different, ALL RACES / RELIGIONS are discriminated against these days
Agreed!!! There are times that I go get offended because there are some words I just don't want to hear. I don't like any names used for hispanics, blacks, whites, etc. CALL IT LIKE IT IS! If a mother****er is lazy, call him lazy, if it's an immigrant, call them an immigrant. Don't use those words. They make people look ignorant.

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I owe on school loans for another 7 years. I wish some of those scholarships that I saw offered were for white males only. Instead, the only ones I saw were either for all races/sexes, or one specific race only (non-white), or for females, or for females of one specific race, or even "all minorities." I NEVER saw any offered for whites only, for males only, or for white males only. I applied for as many as I was qualified for and received none btw. No clue who received them, nor did I care that much. I just know I didn't get them, haha.

I think it's funny that people assume whites can afford college more than others. I don't know anyone that I grew up with that had a college fund. Everyone I grew up with (in school) either didn't go to college, paid their own way through, or went on athletic scholarship. I'm the first person in my family to ever go to college. I'm proud of it and gladly repay my school loans, knowing I did it myself without ANY handouts (that don't need repaid that is, lol).
I think some scholarships or a University were trying to do that up north not too long ago. Either it was for whites only or white males. There were a LOT of minorities agaisnt it. I thought it was bullshit for people to get when minorites have a GREATER chance of getting scholarships. There are so many different types and they want to about one?!?!?! ****in haters!!!

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Another point... blacks and hispanics make fun of whites all the time in shows, comedy sketches, etc. It's FUNNY, I admit. They "talk like white guys", "walk like white guys", etc. I don't ever see a white comedian doing the same thing regarding blacks or hispanics. While I can't say for SURE the reason for this, I would venture to guess it's b/c the white comedians are afraid they'll be labeled as racist. All they are doing is having a little fun. Others do it regularly, so why is it so taboo for whites to do it?
There is a female comedian who loves black men. I mean she LOVES them. I heard her on Sirius radio (uncensored station) and she kept saying "N---- this, N--- that!". It was all sorts stuff, sexually, or just for fun. She said she feels like if she hears other people say it, why can't she? I love them just as much as the next black woman. It was going on for a while. The problem with being a white comedian and talking about other races is it can be compared to that Seinfeld guy. If someone feels discriminated, they will do their best to prove THEIR point/belief with whatever they can work with. This thread is a perfect example. I didn't read through all the posts because the same things were being said over and over. Some say he is racist and some say he is not. Opposing argument is why would he have only black people wait on him? Is it because he feels superior to his own? That black's should be in that work environment? The other argument would be that he is trying to help them to give them work. Honestly, that can go on forever. I personally think it's silly to say "I only want blacks, or asian, or whites servicing me". That is not what you call equal opportunity. If firms have to follow rules, I think everyone else should. I might not make sense because I am so tired!

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It seems that whites are automatically equated as racist in a LOT of peoples' eyes ANYTIME an issue of race comes up. Example: I might not like a black person b/c of their personality. I bet I could find one person who (if honest) would admit that they think I didn't like that person b/c he/she was black. I know history has set the precedent, but I know I'm not racist so that assumption ticks me off.
Growing up when I was in middle school and really learning our history, and I mean black history (FEBUARY FTW!), there were people who began to hold a grudge because of what their anscestors suffered. I remember a few kids would play the "It's because I'm black" card. I cannot stand that ! NO! It's not because you're black, it's because your STUPID! High school came around and back then I was scared to say anything because I didn't want people to think I was racist. So, in high school they would do the same thing. I didn't care to keep my mouth shut anymore. I spoke my mind. If you want to sit there and get sympathy for you didn't know a few years ago, or don't know what all happened, then shut the **** up and sit down. I would say DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH! Learn about all the people who MADE a difference, and NO it was not just Martin Luther King Jr. There were more before him who died trying and after him. There will always be people who want to make a difference, and there will always be people who just want to be in the lime light. You just need to know who is doing what before you jump to conclusions.


EVERY group is discriminated again, bottom line. Each race tends to see the biases AGAINST their own people, and that's cool. I see it against whites (as exampled above) but I also see where other races are coming from with their gripes.

FWIW to qualify myself as not being racist, my g/f is muslim (I am SOOOO sick of everyone equating islam to evil/murder/intolerance/etc). I went to one of the most culturally diverse HS in the nation (in Newsweek back in 94 or 95). I grew up around tons of diff cultures and I am HAPPY to have done so. My ex wife is hispanic. My best friend in HS was black.

Ah well, just my $.02.[/QUOTE]

I had all types of friends growing up and I dated all typed of races. None are EVER the same. Meaning the hispanics I dated were the same, nor were any of the whites I dated.

I added my .02.
Time for a nap!....... I wish. :eh: [:
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Old 08-03-2007, 09:55 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue91 View Post
Discussion about racism and/or religion ALWAYS leads to hurt feelings, misunderstandings, arguments, and each party trying to get their point across to another party who doesn't want to listen b/c they want to get their point back across to the original party at the same time.

Bottom line is, while the severity can be different, ALL RACES / RELIGIONS are discriminated against these days.

I owe on school loans for another 7 years. I wish some of those scholarships that I saw offered were for white males only. Instead, the only ones I saw were either for all races/sexes, or one specific race only (non-white), or for females, or for females of one specific race, or even "all minorities." I NEVER saw any offered for whites only, for males only, or for white males only. I applied for as many as I was qualified for and received none btw. No clue who received them, nor did I care that much. I just know I didn't get them, haha.

I think it's funny that people assume whites can afford college more than others. I don't know anyone that I grew up with that had a college fund. Everyone I grew up with (in school) either didn't go to college, paid their own way through, or went on athletic scholarship. I'm the first person in my family to ever go to college. I'm proud of it and gladly repay my school loans, knowing I did it myself without ANY handouts (that don't need repaid that is, lol).

Another point... blacks and hispanics make fun of whites all the time in shows, comedy sketches, etc. It's FUNNY, I admit. They "talk like white guys", "walk like white guys", etc. I don't ever see a white comedian doing the same thing regarding blacks or hispanics. While I can't say for SURE the reason for this, I would venture to guess it's b/c the white comedians are afraid they'll be labeled as racist. All they are doing is having a little fun. Others do it regularly, so why is it so taboo for whites to do it?

It seems that whites are automatically equated as racist in a LOT of peoples' eyes ANYTIME an issue of race comes up. Example: I might not like a black person b/c of their personality. I bet I could find one person who (if honest) would admit that they think I didn't like that person b/c he/she was black. I know history has set the precedent, but I know I'm not racist so that assumption ticks me off.

EVERY group is discriminated again, bottom line. Each race tends to see the biases AGAINST their own people, and that's cool. I see it against whites (as exampled above) but I also see where other races are coming from with their gripes.

FWIW to qualify myself as not being racist, my g/f is muslim (I am SOOOO sick of everyone equating islam to evil/murder/intolerance/etc). I went to one of the most culturally diverse HS in the nation (in Newsweek back in 94 or 95). I grew up around tons of diff cultures and I am HAPPY to have done so. My ex wife is hispanic. My best friend in HS was black.

Ah well, just my $.02.
So let me get this straight, some of you believe that it is easier for blacks and Hispanics to get into college and get scholarships? No one is assuming that whites are financially more capable of affording college. We don't need to assume that. Because it is a simple statistical fact! You can come up with exceptions, but it is just a fact.

And along with that, I would also like to bring up affirmative action. I have heard many people mention that affirmative action is "unfair". Well, maybe. I personally have been told that the only reason I got into college was affirmative action. And if that was the case, fine. It doesnít bother me in the slightest (4.0 GPA in HS, 1430 SAT, bla bla bla). But remember this very important point, affirmative action may get you in, but it doesnít get you out! You donít get a diploma as a result of affirmative action.

And someone made the comment about minorities joking about whites in the media. Have you ever heard of blackface comedy? What about the frat's down south that, every Halloween, dress up as Aunt Jemima, blackface, etc.

It is one thing to say that we all suffer as a result of racism. It is quite another to purport that you suffer more than minorities because as a white person you are not afforded the same "privileges" as we minorities.

I have more to say, but I would like to keep this thread going. As long as we can keep it mature, and positive. I am sure we can all learn a little bit from this right?
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Old 08-03-2007, 11:03 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by atizzle View Post
So let me get this straight, some of you believe that it is easier for blacks and Hispanics to get into college and get scholarships? No one is assuming that whites are financially more capable of affording college. We don't need to assume that. Because it is a simple statistical fact! You can come up with exceptions, but it is just a fact.
I didn't agree so much with the assumption, but it's funny how when a "white only" scholarship is created, it is criticized. Here are plenty of articles about this. I was trying to find the most recent one (it was last year). So maybe in this way it's a little harder to get a scholarship? I'd believe it.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/02/15/whites.only.ap/
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive...04dnews-07.asp
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2674267&page=1
http://goldspider.blogspot.com/2004/...p-exposes.html
http://media.www.iowastatedaily.com/...-1098862.shtml

It can go on...

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And along with that, I would also like to bring up affirmative action. I have heard many people mention that affirmative action is "unfair". Well, maybe. I personally have been told that the only reason I got into college was affirmative action. And if that was the case, fine. It doesnít bother me in the slightest (4.0 GPA in HS, 1430 SAT, bla bla bla). But remember this very important point, affirmative action may get you in, but it doesnít get you out! You donít get a diploma as a result of affirmative action.

And someone made the comment about minorities joking about whites in the media. Have you ever heard of blackface comedy? What about the frat's down south that, every Halloween, dress up as Aunt Jemima, blackface, etc.
Are you talking about the KKK and their parades and how they make fun of black history month?

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It is one thing to say that we all suffer as a result of racism. It is quite another to purport that you suffer more than minorities because as a white person you are not afforded the same "privileges" as we minorities.

I have more to say, but I would like to keep this thread going. As long as we can keep it mature, and positive. I am sure we can all learn a little bit from this right?

So gets more of a privildge?
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Old 08-03-2007, 11:36 AM   #196
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So let me get this straight, some of you believe that it is easier for blacks and Hispanics to get into college and get scholarships? No one is assuming that whites are financially more capable of affording college. We don't need to assume that. Because it is a simple statistical fact! You can come up with exceptions, but it is just a fact.

And along with that, I would also like to bring up affirmative action. I have heard many people mention that affirmative action is "unfair". Well, maybe. I personally have been told that the only reason I got into college was affirmative action. And if that was the case, fine. It doesnít bother me in the slightest (4.0 GPA in HS, 1430 SAT, bla bla bla). But remember this very important point, affirmative action may get you in, but it doesnít get you out! You donít get a diploma as a result of affirmative action.
Nobody that I know has had an easy time affording college (regardless of race). A good example is my cousins. Their retired parents went back to work just so that their kids could go to college. The kids graduated long ago but the parents are still working to pay off debts (at 70 something years old). Those kids were at the top of their class and were active in the community but still had getting into a decent school.

You're right, AA doesn't get you the diploma but it does give one person more opportunity over another based on their skin color/ethnic background. That's what's wrong with it.
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Old 08-03-2007, 12:34 PM   #197
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So let me get this straight, some of you believe that it is easier for blacks and Hispanics to get into college and get scholarships? No one is assuming that whites are financially more capable of affording college. We don't need to assume that. Because it is a simple statistical fact! You can come up with exceptions, but it is just a fact.
Is it easier for minorities to get SCHOLARSHIPS? From my own personal experiences (and as such, my own OPINION is) I'd say yes since there are more offered out there specifically for them. I'd like to see the facts and stats that say MOST white people can afford their own college, b/c I sure don't know anyone who had college funds.

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And along with that, I would also like to bring up affirmative action. I have heard many people mention that affirmative action is "unfair". Well, maybe. I personally have been told that the only reason I got into college was affirmative action. And if that was the case, fine. It doesnít bother me in the slightest (4.0 GPA in HS, 1430 SAT, bla bla bla). But remember this very important point, affirmative action may get you in, but it doesnít get you out! You donít get a diploma as a result of affirmative action.
I never mentioned it. For school, I agree. You have to do the work to earn the degree.

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And someone made the comment about minorities joking about whites in the media. Have you ever heard of blackface comedy? What about the frat's down south that, every Halloween, dress up as Aunt Jemima, blackface, etc.
Do you see those events on TV, cable or otherwise with tons of people laughing at it? Nope. They are mostly frowned upon as being racist actions by ignorant people and don't get mainstream media play b/c of it. At the same time, Carlos Mencia, Chris Rock, etc can yuk it up at other races expense and it's never once considered racist and they get the TV time, the cable specials, the movies, etc. Why is this?

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It is one thing to say that we all suffer as a result of racism. It is quite another to purport that you suffer more than minorities because as a white person you are not afforded the same "privileges" as we minorities.
I never "purported" that I suffer more than minorities. So now, if a white man mentions things to show that everyone deals with racism in some sort or fashion, it automatically means they are claiming they deal with it MORE than other minorities? WTF? Nice way to jump to that conclusion. I didn't know whites aren't allowed to join in on a conversation involving racial issues and point out the double standards in this country today. I guess I should just count my lucky stars I was born white and have everything in life and all the opportunities in the world solely b/c of my skin color.

Sorry you only found negative in my post.

Ah well.
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Old 08-03-2007, 03:16 PM   #198
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AliceinChains?!?!?!!
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Old 08-03-2007, 03:40 PM   #199
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Blue91, it is tough to get a point across via the internet/email/forums because much of what I was saying was not meant to jump to any conclusions or insult or anything like that. I was just tyring ot make a few points.

Regarding blackface:
That was commonly on TV during our grandparents' generation. I think much of what we see on TV where minorities make fun of whites (and their own races as well) is simply theraputic to a group of people who have historically been on the receiving end of such insults. It is kind of like the difference between the guy who trips and falls and gets upset, and the guy who trips and falls and sort of laughs/jokes about it to his friends. Make sense?

Regarding scholarships:
I think there are so many scholarships for minorities because we are playing "catch up". I know, before you respond with "we all have the same opportunities", we have to all at least acknowledge the fact there are some issues in higher education with respect to minority enrollment.

Regarding jumping to conclusions:
I don't think I am jumping to any conclusions here. I simply made a statement saying that the evil of racism does affect all those involved. I never said that being born white was going to give you open all doors for you. But being born black, I can definitely tell you that it has closed some doors for me. And I say this not to play the victim, b/c when a door is closed I do what I can to knock that door down. But the fact is that there are doors that are, at times closed to me that would never be closed to you. That is just the world we still live in, and there are still people who exist who behave this way. I think we can agree on that right?

Regarding affirmative action:
I didnt say you mentoined it! I just said "I would like to bring up...".

I didn't say you couldn't join in on the conversation. Quite the contrary, I want everyone to join in because this is how we can learn from each other.

Blue, let me reiterate that in my previous responses, any tone of sarcasm or jumping to conclusions is purely unintentional. I just cant type the tone of my voice....
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:14 PM   #200
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Point and comments well taken.
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