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Old 07-24-2007, 11:16 PM   #141
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Actually yes, i think you only pass me twice if i remember correctly, one i was coming from the pits with cold tires and the other one helping jet and jon. BUT yes, you are way faster than me, i only run like 2:05 with stop watch so not really reliable.
stop stroking jimmy's ego, he's got enough people doing that
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go ahead and cry so I can use the tears as lubrication to stick it in you
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:22 PM   #142
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:24 PM   #143
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Careful I think they call that insurance fraud.


I gots 2 thoughts about all this.
#1)
What if we changed this to riding dirtbikes on a track on an open day? NOBODY has insurance on their bikes so all that goes out the window.
Now some squid hits you and you wipe out, are you gonna say he should pay for your bike and medical bills? I think not, you knew you were on a track and that bad stuff could happen. On the other hand should he offer to pay up? Maybe so I don't know.

Thought #2:
My track bike is not only NOT street legal, it is titled as an off road only vehicle. As far as I know that means no insurance company will touch it. What if you want to hold me responsible for your damages or medical bills and I can't pay?
Maybe I have health insurance to repair me, and I can choose not to repair my own bike until I have the funds. But what if my health insurance won't cover you? What if I can't afford to fix your bike?
You should be prepared to take care of these things for yourself, you are not likely to win a lawsuit or get money out of any insurance company.

I wouldnt pay. They new what could happen if you are were at the track.
In foot ball if you get hurt by another player getting tackled Is he suposed to pay for your hospital bill, I think not.
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:25 PM   #144
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he just dont want me to be like zr1 and tell people how fast i am, dint i say you have to let your riding do the talking one day i will teach little grasshoper:icon_bigg
Dood, i told that you are way faster than me, chit i saw you flying with irish. But some day i will play with you around the track. Maybe next year if i keep the track party.
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:25 PM   #145
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he just dont want me to be like zr1 and tell people how fast i am, dint i say you have to let your riding do the talking one day i will teach little grasshoper:icon_bigg
yes sir :notworthy
when I grow up I want to be like jimmy :icon_bigg
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:32 PM   #146
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Old 07-25-2007, 01:03 AM   #147
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This thread is too long for me to read all of, I'll start reading now.

When I started track riding, the rules were:

1. If you crash, you fix ur $hit.
2. IF someone takes you out the decent thing for them to do is pay for half your expenses, the SUPER decent thing is for them to pay the whole cost.

Insurance never got brought into it because that just made things more expensive overall for everyone.

I know one guy had his bike "accidentally" fall out of his truck on the same afternoon as a track day. Well, Oahu is a small island and he got busted for insurance fraud.

The guy that hits/takes out someone else is not under any legal obligation.

I sure hope that that individual realizes the motorcycle scene, and even more so the track scene, can be a tight knit crew and doing the right thing will pay off WAY more in the long run.

If you cause a wreck, do what you can to make things right.
Mike

PS I'm a bit drunk, sorry for the type-Os
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Old 07-25-2007, 04:49 AM   #148
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Good point, I'm not intending on debating the issues with anyone to further extent, I just happen to disagree. I don't think the guy was being malicious about the pass, he just happened to break the rules, which was the mistake he made.

Let me reitterate that I don't condone it, I don't think this guy was in the right, and I don't mean that by saying he "made a mistake" that he gets a free pass or is absolved of wrong doing. I just mean to say that dispite the message given in the rider's meeting and such that he made a mistake and was wrong.

I do see your point though, and concede that possibly, there are two correct opinions on terminology- I think we're saying the same thing in two different ways.
Accidents are things that happen outside of our control. A throttle cable breaking, a tire going flat because of a nail puncture, a tree falling in front of you, etc and are generally considered acts of .

Mistakes are things that happen out of poor judgment or lack of due diligence. Mistakes are acts of man. IMO most automobile accidents are mistakes... Jenny was talking on her cell phone, Bobby's cigarette fell between his legs, Joe was drunk, I was going too fast for the conditions, etc.

People are often held accountable for mistakes because THEY ARE AT FAULT. This guy showed extremely poor judgment and should be held accountable for it on some level. This could include an apology, a public flogging, getting kicked off the track, having to mow Patricia's yard (if she had one), or something else.

Everyone is acting like this is a race situation. This is the SLOW group of a track day where grams and gramps get to stretch the legs on their Ninja 250's and V-Stroms without being blown off the road! We all talk about "take it to a track day" and then this kind of happens in this group. This is a RIDERS SCHOOL not a RACE SCHOOL and the RULES are there for a reason.

I am sure that LSTD will get some good guidelines worked up for this type of situation. It just me off to see a friend laid up for who knows how long while this asshat cries a few tears and then spends the rest of the day having fun. A drunk that hits a tree is not in near as much as a drunk that hurts someone else. Both are lapses in judgment but the consequences are quite different.
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Old 07-25-2007, 09:54 AM   #149
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Accidents are things that happen outside of our control. A throttle cable breaking, a tire going flat because of a nail puncture, a tree falling in front of you, etc and are generally considered acts of .

Mistakes are things that happen out of poor judgment or lack of due diligence. Mistakes are acts of man. IMO most automobile accidents are mistakes... Jenny was talking on her cell phone, Bobby's cigarette fell between his legs, Joe was drunk, I was going too fast for the conditions, etc.

People are often held accountable for mistakes because THEY ARE AT FAULT. This guy showed extremely poor judgment and should be held accountable for it on some level. This could include an apology, a public flogging, getting kicked off the track, having to mow Patricia's yard (if she had one), or something else.

Everyone is acting like this is a race situation. This is the SLOW group of a track day where grams and gramps get to stretch the legs on their Ninja 250's and V-Stroms without being blown off the road! We all talk about "take it to a track day" and then this kind of happens in this group. This is a RIDERS SCHOOL not a RACE SCHOOL and the RULES are there for a reason.

I am sure that LSTD will get some good guidelines worked up for this type of situation. It just me off to see a friend laid up for who knows how long while this asshat cries a few tears and then spends the rest of the day having fun. A drunk that hits a tree is not in near as much as a drunk that hurts someone else. Both are lapses in judgment but the consequences are quite different.
Well said.
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Old 07-25-2007, 10:33 AM   #150
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Excellente hutch. :-)
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:13 AM   #151
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It just me off to see a friend laid up for who knows how long while this asshat cries a few tears and then spends the rest of the day having fun. A drunk that hits a tree is not in near as much as a drunk that hurts someone else. Both are lapses in judgment but the consequences are quite different.
Great Post. I completely agree and this whole situation me off.
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:21 AM   #152
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If it were me, I'd be suing this guy's . The whole "it's the track, happens" attitude was an eyeopener for me and is one of the reasons that I won't be riding on the track anytime soon. Screw this. People need to be held accountable for their actions. Chaotic free-for-all with no consequences doesn't equate "safer" to me.

So maybe more rules and mandatory liability insurance would ruin it for everyone? Maybe an institution like this *should* be ruined.
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:25 AM   #153
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If it were me, I'd be suing this guy's . The whole "it's the track, happens" attitude was an eyeopener for me and is one of the reasons that I won't be riding on the track anytime soon. Screw this. People need to be held accountable for their actions. Chaotic free-for-all with no consequences doesn't equate "safer" to me.

So maybe more rules and mandatory liability insurance would ruin it for everyone? Maybe an institution like this *should* be ruined.
i kinda feel that way. i just don't want to risk someone else's actions causing me to wreck and then them not be held accountable to that. At least on the street people have insurance and i have uninsured motorist to cover me if they don't. i want to keep my bike or at least have it replaced if something happens... at no expense to me. if it was my fault then too bad for me
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:26 AM   #154
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about your comment......yes, some people should be liable for the MISTAKES (not accidents), but the truth of the matter is.....

if this were to happen anywhere else besides the track, it could've ended a lot worse. there are boneheads everywhere, on and off the track. at least happening at the track, you won't get ran over by a car, fly into a ditch, or into some barb wire fencing.

but when i go to the track....i come with the mindset that i might not leave with a bike anymore, or i might leave with medical bills up the wazooo.

but being as he broke the rules....it kinda changes the scenario a bit.
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:28 AM   #155
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about your comment......yes, some people should be liable for the MISTAKES (not accidents), but the truth of the matter is.....

if this were to happen anywhere else besides the track, it could've ended a lot worse. there are boneheads everywhere, on and off the track. at least happening at the track, you won't get ran over by a car, fly into a ditch, or into some barb wire fencing.

but when i go to the track....i come with the mindset that i might not leave with a bike anymore, or i might leave with medical bills up the wazooo.

but being as he broke the rules....it kinda changes the scenario a bit.
i don't want to accept that. on the street it'd get replaced. and PM tony
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:38 AM   #156
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i don't want to accept that. on the street it'd get replaced. and PM tony
but you also have to accept, that if you ride on the street like you would on the track......instead of being bikeless or injured......you can very well be dead.

lots of variables on the street that the track eliminates. i would never ride 100% on the street, i guess i prefer being bikeless or left with med bills, then to be gone and leave my family/friends.
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:42 AM   #157
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but you also have to accept, that if you ride on the street like you would on the track......instead of being bikeless or injured......you can very well be dead.

lots of variables on the street that the track eliminates. i would never ride 100% on the street, i guess i prefer being bikeless or left with med bills, then to be gone and leave my family/friends.
i don't ride on the street like i would on the track... i don't think, i have never done a track day. i'm not for or against track days, i think it'd be a great learning experience, but i'd want to do it by myself or way away from the pack so if i up then it's all my fault.

tony, check your pm's
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:45 AM   #158
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maybe you should talk to buck beasley.....and join him on a private day. the price is a wee bit more.....but you'll be on the track with just him, yourself, and maybe a few other guys. instead of the 25-30 people normal days.

pm's checked
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:59 AM   #159
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but you also have to accept, that if you ride on the street like you would on the track......instead of being bikeless or injured......you can very well be dead.

lots of variables on the street that the track eliminates. i would never ride 100% on the street, i guess i prefer being bikeless or left with med bills, then to be gone and leave my family/friends.


i agree... i have to remind myself about the street not being track constantly though. Its kinda a self control issue for meh.
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Old 07-25-2007, 12:02 PM   #160
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maybe you should talk to buck beasley.....and join him on a private day. the price is a wee bit more.....but you'll be on the track with just him, yourself, and maybe a few other guys. instead of the 25-30 people normal days.

pm's checked

I'm going to start doing alot of t-day's with those guys..... I really enjoyed going out there the other month. Shame turn 1 got my ego. I'll be back soon. Was treated the best out of any t-day ever. Instructors are FAST and awsome. Worth the extra money to me!
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