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Old 07-23-2007, 04:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulric View Post

It would be, moraly(?) wrong for the parties involved to persue the track owner/operator... and recourse would depend on other factors etc. In the particular circumstance that started this.. it would seem that 1 rider violated the terms of the class level and situation, directly causing the accident.
yes it would be wrong, track riding is track riding. even if taken out by somebody else , it's still the track.

what i don't agree w/ is that they let the rider continue riding.
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:22 PM   #22
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so we should make a list of what insurance companys do and there stipulations(sp) I will call mine and find out tomorrow.
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go ahead and cry so I can use the tears as lubrication to stick it in you
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:23 PM   #23
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I was asking for details about the conversation she had with said bone head. NO MH DRAMA so fiddy stop stirring the pot!!!!(jk girl)
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:26 PM   #24
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if he could not handle himself in C what makes them think he is gonna do any better in a faster group?
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:26 PM   #25
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what if you wreck your bike and there is no one else involved, will insurance cover it?
Yes
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:33 PM   #26
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ugh...I am not trying to start drama trying to avoid it.

I do agree it should be discussed in all possibilities not just off of one particular accident.
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:37 PM   #27
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Quote:
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I was asking for details about the conversation she had with said bone head.

I politely asked him what had happened and let him explain it to me. I posted it in my other thread about getting wrecked.
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:38 PM   #28
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"yes it would be wrong, track riding is track riding. even if taken out by somebody else , it's still the track."

I defer there... the how/and why is important. How the onus does not go to the track crew but the rider. This was a training course/class, not a race. Expectations, Obligations, responsiblities are different... what happens in a race if a driver/rider violates certain driving behaviour when under certain flags?

"A double stationary flag, or a yellow flag accompanied by a “SC” sign denotes a full-course yellow, requiring the use of a safety car. This indicates that all racing on the circuit must cease and drivers must slow down, hold position and follow any safety cars that have been dispatched. Passing other cars is strictly prohibited, unless not passing would create a safety hazard."

^ in this situation, presume a driver/rider decides to pass anyway...(and does not need to) and in the action of doing so, impacts another vehicle cause it or both to crash?
(now granted, we're talking a race situation here...)
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:47 PM   #29
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I think people are getting a little too worked up here. This is the track and accidents happen.

Back in November, I was run into during one during one of Buck's track days at MSRH. I was on the left side of the track going into Gut Check when a rider (who shall remain nameless unless he wants to out himself) tried to pass and hit my front wheel setting up a tank slapper and throwing me into the infield. I wasn't seriously hurt but was bruised from the foot pegs hitting my shines. He stopped, checked to see if I was okay and helped get the bike back to the pits. I paid for the damage and wouldn't think of asking him to reimburse me. The same goes for insurance. What happens is my responsibilty. If I can't pay, I don't play.

Was the accident his fault. I thought so and so did he since he said he was riding agressively to catch some guys in front. So what. Mistakes happen.

Did he ride the rest of the day while I was out of action? Yes. That's the way it goes.

Let's keep the track free of the recriminations that so bedevl the rest of our world.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:03 PM   #30
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In this legal issue, it is more of he said she said kind of thing. Insurance will not pay out if there is a he said she said kinda deal. Might as well, claim under collision and get it over with. He said she park in the middle of the road, she said he failed to stop or followed too closely. Who would be at fault?
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:04 PM   #31
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as track riders we disable safety devices, IE. tail light, insurance company may say well if the rider would have known you were slowing down maybe you would not have been hit.

I dont know, just looking at it from the other side.


Personally for me if someone takes me out, well that just the way it is, If I take someone else out all I can say is sorry, anything beyond that would be my good will.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:11 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasyankee View Post
I think people are getting a little too worked up here. This is the track and accidents happen.

Back in November, I was run into during one during one of Buck's track days at MSRH. I was on the left side of the track going into Gut Check when a rider (who shall remain nameless unless he wants to out himself) tried to pass and hit my front wheel setting up a tank slapper and throwing me into the infield. I wasn't seriously hurt but was bruised from the foot pegs hitting my shines. He stopped, checked to see if I was okay and helped get the bike back to the pits. I paid for the damage and wouldn't think of asking him to reimburse me. The same goes for insurance. What happens is my responsibilty. If I can't pay, I don't play.

Was the accident his fault. I thought so and so did he since he said he was riding agressively to catch some guys in front. So what. Mistakes happen.

Did he ride the rest of the day while I was out of action? Yes. That's the way it goes.

Let's keep the track free of the recriminations that so bedevl the rest of our world.

Be like me, play now and pay later.

No one wants to get hurt and no one has the intention of hurting anyone. It is part of the game. If you are willing to play, then you will have to pay. It sucks that you have to pay on someone mistakes or one day it could be you that is making the mistakes, who knows.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:16 PM   #33
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the only person responsible for an accident on the track is you. even if a bonehead pulls a bullshit move and takes you out. it's a track, there are risks, i wouldn't bother with any legal action. i'm pretty sure the waiver you sign releases responsibility on anybody's behalf but your own.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:17 PM   #34
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I want to say... I CAN understand 'shyte' happens... and i'm not a litigous happy freak.

My question, commentary is based around someone deciding what ever 'rules' & 'protection' are there for the riders, does not apply to them... and who may not/do not have remorse for the results of their actions...

and as such, it does help us to realize and consider what people need to know prior to going into some of these things. Honestly, how many can say they considered what would happen or need be done if their bike was totaled on the track... and/or now if their insurance would cover it or not?
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:18 PM   #35
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I don't think it should be expected that the person at fault should HAVE to pay for damages, but it sure would be nice. As far as maskale's comment regarding no brake light, etc. I compare track riding to how I view snowboarding (, I miss that sport every winter). You are responsible for those in front of you, not behind you. As you come up on a rider, you should see their line, judge their speed, be confident you can hold your line and make a safe pass. If that person is not holding a steady line or is not smooth through the turn you should back off and wait for a better time to pass. There were several times on Saturday (as well as previous times) where I had to wait for an opportunity to make a safe pass. If that particular rider was "parking it in the corners on his gsxr 1000 and then WOT until the next corner I could not pass. With that being said I would make a slow run down pit lane until I felt he had gone far enough ahead as to not get in my way. Just my 2 cents as always.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:01 PM   #36
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Why dont we ask good ol pete about the insurance thing?
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:18 PM   #37
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My personal two cents on this issue-

If you do not have health insurance that will cover you in the event of an accident at the track, you have no business being there.

If you are riding a bike that is financed it would behove you to insure that your policy covers your track day.

Accidents can and will happen on a race track. If you ride track days regularly you should expect that eventually odds will catch up with you and one way or another you are going to go down resulting in damage to your bike and possibly yourself.

Accidents on the track, IMO, are covered by the, 'That's Racing' philosophy. In other words, no financial reponsibility is borne by anyone other than the injured party. An apology from an offending rider, in the event that another rider is CLEARLY at falut, is all one should expect. When Pedrosa took out Hayden last year it a clearly bonehead move, he apologized and that was that. Nicky did not try to sue Danny for damages caused by potential lost points, etc. Had Danny not crashed but only taken out Nicky, should he have quit the race so as not to take advantage of the points he would score? No. That's racing.

The only exceptiont to the above would be in the event of and accident resulting from an act intended to harm another rider.

Tbis is a dangerous sport. People get hurt, paralyzed, suffer major brain damage and die. Trackday organizations and race organizations have to balance safety measures with nature of the sport. Ultimately it is up to the participants to decide if they are willing to accept the risk of injury, phisical and/or financial.

Of course, as in street riding, the best measures are defensive. Wearing full race track specific gear from head to toe will go a long way in pushing the odds in your favor.

I, as well as I am sure many others on this board, have gone down on a race track during a track day, due in part or perhaps whole, to the actions of another rider. Weather it is a mechanical failure resulting in oil being spilled on a track, or improper pass, an inadvertantent contact with a brake lever, you name it. It happens. Be prepared to deal with the consequences if it does happen and try not do be the person that does it. And if you do, apologies are appreciated.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:26 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasyankee View Post
I think people are getting a little too worked up here. This is the track and accidents happen.

Back in November, I was run into during one during one of Buck's track days at MSRH. I was on the left side of the track going into Gut Check when a rider (who shall remain nameless unless he wants to out himself) tried to pass and hit my front wheel setting up a tank slapper and throwing me into the infield. I wasn't seriously hurt but was bruised from the foot pegs hitting my shines. He stopped, checked to see if I was okay and helped get the bike back to the pits. I paid for the damage and wouldn't think of asking him to reimburse me. The same goes for insurance. What happens is my responsibilty. If I can't pay, I don't play.

Was the accident his fault. I thought so and so did he since he said he was riding agressively to catch some guys in front. So what. Mistakes happen.

Did he ride the rest of the day while I was out of action? Yes. That's the way it goes.

Let's keep the track free of the recriminations that so bedevl the rest of our world.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:47 PM   #39
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:27 PM   #40
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Quote:
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thats what i try to say but got deleted:icon_bigg
It sounds like the situation was evaluated, the rider was made well aware of his violations, and that it was handled after that resulting in no further incidents.

I wasn't there, but I know the owners well enough to know that they are fair and just, and that they wouldn't compromise anyone's safety in any way. I think LSTD goes well above most people's expectations when it comes to safety, and that the "unforeseen" events are generally the ones that can hit the hardest. You can't plan for everything, something I learned very early in my line of work. You just try to plan for what you can, and work with what you get when it happens. If you or someone makes a mistake, you learn from it so that you don't duplicate it.
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