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Old 07-23-2007, 04:36 PM   #61
Ronnie H.
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Hello Patricia,

If this is an inopportune time to post this, just let me know and I'll remove it.

We are all sickened and distressed by what happened this Saturday to Patricia! We pride ourselves on the number of lady riders that we have and we take special pains to make sure that they are comfortable and enjoy themselves.

If my fellow instructors had been allowed to have their way, the offending rider would have been tarred, feathered and run out of town on the closest set of train tracks. They were justifiably upset.

Eventually, cooler heads prevailed. The biggest issue is our own rules.

During the rider's meeting I stated the following:

If you break our (LSTD) rules you will get a warning on the 1st one. You will sit out a session on the 2nd and you will be dismissed on the 3rd.

We never considered what action should be taken if someone violates multiple rules in one occurrence. That situation is now being evaluated.

The offending rider did 4 things that we explicitly state, during the rider's meeting, are not be done at an LSTD track day! They were just done all at one time.

Regrettably, we must abide by the rules that we enforce. I hated seeing you lying prone on the edge of the track. If by sheer force of will alone I could have done anything more to prevent an incident like that from happening to anyone, especially someone as undeserving as you, I would have done it!

In closing, may I suggest the Sidi Vertigo line of boots. They are somewhat pricey but the quality of the boot and the safety provided makes them worth the expense. They are also very unlikely to be forcibly removed from your feet. I have tried and tested many a pair of boots and this past Christmas I purchased the Sidi Vertigos for my girlfriend.

I wish you the best in your recovery and we all hope to see you again soon.

Ronnie Hay
Lead Instructor - LSTD
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:41 PM   #62
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Oh my goodness. I am soo happy you're ok. I am sure you're still in allot of pain, so feel free to pm me if you need anything.
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:52 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie H. View Post
I wish you the best in your recovery and we all hope to see you again soon.

Ronnie Hay
Lead Instructor - LSTD

Ronnie, I am absolutely fine with your post and thank you for it. I think you represent LSTD in an excellent way and Steve is lucky to have you. That is why LSTD is my favorite organization and will remain to be just that. :icon_bigg

I am very lucky to limp away the way I did. I will definitely invest in better gear for another track day. It also made it very clear to me what can happen out there on the street and I cannot stress gear enough.

Thanks for the suggestion for the boots! Lov'ya!

... and it was very good seeing you out there again and riding after hearing about your incident. Good to see you are healing up so well. I'll do my best to recover as quick as you did.
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:53 PM   #64
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Wow, this is crazy. It looks like you went down hard. These are graffic pics.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:05 PM   #65
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... and to add to Ronnie's comments, I think the reaction of the rider at fault said a lot. He KNEW he made a mistake and felt so bad about it he was welling up and practically brought to tears when some of the LSTD staff were talking to him after the fact. I think he was so disgusted with himself he couldn't face Patricia. No excuse for not owning up to it and speaking to HER mind you... I'm just stating what seemed to be the rider's frame of mind.

Had he given any ounce of attitude and tried to play it off, he would have been gone... but he was a beginner who'd made a mistake that unfortunately involved another rider. The dynamics of a rider, their enthusiasm and a racetrack get sticky sometimes... no matter how much you spell out the rules for some of them. The stuff that we (LSTD) can control is one thing..... it's the stuff that you CAN'T control that scares us the most. Fortunately, the vasty majority of riders out there wouldn't make this kind of mistake.

If memory serves, he had actually stated that he was going to approach us about changing Groups due to the speed deferentiation between him and the vast majority of the other C-Groupers. In the end, he was bumped to B-Group and allowed to ride because of everything stated above.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:06 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faylaricia View Post
As long as it stays in relation to the general topic (getting wrecked), it is fine.

I will try to post pics of the Viffer later. I think Chris took some but I am not sure if he is going to post them.

Ill post em, but Wanted to make sure it was ok with you.... Ill post them later tonight
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:06 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie H. View Post
Hello Patricia,

If this is an inopportune time to post this, just let me know and I'll remove it.

We are all sickened and distressed by what happened this Saturday to Patricia! We pride ourselves on the number of lady riders that we have and we take special pains to make sure that they are comfortable and enjoy themselves.

If my fellow instructors had been allowed to have their way, the offending rider would have been tarred, feathered and run out of town on the closest set of train tracks. They were justifiably upset.

Eventually, cooler heads prevailed. The biggest issue is our own rules.

During the rider's meeting I stated the following:

If you break our (LSTD) rules you will get a warning on the 1st one. You will sit out a session on the 2nd and you will be dismissed on the 3rd.

We never considered what action should be taken if someone violates multiple rules in one occurrence. That situation is now being evaluated.

The offending rider did 4 things that we explicitly state, during the rider's meeting, are not be done at an LSTD track day! They were just done all at one time.

Regrettably, we must abide by the rules that we enforce. I hated seeing you lying prone on the edge of the track. If by sheer force of will alone I could have done anything more to prevent an incident like that from happening to anyone, especially someone as undeserving as you, I would have done it!



Ronnie Hay
Lead Instructor - LSTD
Good post, Ronnie. I'm sure you guys will close up that loophole before the next track day so you can take the appropriate action on the next bonehead who thinks the rules don't apply to him.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:07 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faylaricia View Post
Ronnie, I am absolutely fine with your post and thank you for it. I think you represent LSTD in an excellent way and Steve is lucky to have you. That is why LSTD is my favorite organization and will remain to be just that. :icon_bigg
And we're lucky to have you! It's enthusiasts like yourself that make the sport great.

Hope your healing going super fast and smooth.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:09 PM   #69
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Ronnie & Jeff...

Thanks for the posts, it helps a lot in regards to understanding the situation.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:14 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie H. View Post
....Eventually, cooler heads prevailed. The biggest issue is our own rules.

During the rider's meeting I stated the following:

If you break our (LSTD) rules you will get a warning on the 1st one. You will sit out a session on the 2nd and you will be dismissed on the 3rd.

We never considered what action should be taken if someone violates multiple rules in one occurrence. That situation is now being evaluated.

The offending rider did 4 things that we explicitly state, during the rider's meeting, are not be done at an LSTD track day! They were just done all at one time.

Regrettably, we must abide by the rules that we enforce. I hated seeing you lying prone on the edge of the track. If by sheer force of will alone I could have done anything more to prevent an incident like that from happening to anyone, especially someone as undeserving as you, I would have done it!....

Ronnie Hay
Lead Instructor - LSTD
I am glad this is under review. This is really my only issue with this situation. I feel that something needs to be in place before it happens again.

We all know that we take risks being on the track, much less just riding a motorcycle but hope that the rules will be enforced. Obviously being his first track day and in the first session, LSTD would have not had any prior warning to his on-track behavior. But, once the incident did happen and was a result of the safety precautions were being ignored by the rider, I feel that he should have been dealt with more appropriately. Hopefully if this ever happens again the rules will be in place to deal with it.
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Old 07-23-2007, 05:30 PM   #71
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Thanks Jeff. And yes, Chris, it will be fine to post them. Since you already took them, it will make it much easier. :icon_bigg Thanks!
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:00 PM   #72
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glad ur ok ! pics are crazy :icon_bigg
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:46 PM   #73
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I was right behind Patricia when she went down. I made sure to go out and follow the guy around when he did get back on the track. I was waiting for him to do something else ignorant but he didnt.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:47 PM   #74
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I was right behind Patricia when she went down. I made sure to go out and follow the guy around when he did get back on the track. I was waiting for him to do something else ignorant but he didnt.
-Gabe
Thanks for everything, Gabe!!! All your help was greatly appreciated.
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Old 07-23-2007, 06:49 PM   #75
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Anytime, I just wish it could of been avoided. And trust me.....we all felt helpless too.
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Old 07-23-2007, 07:51 PM   #76
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It was a good thing you had people at the track with you Patricia, you wouldn't believe the number of folks that don't.

Speedy recovery to you, take care of those injuries!
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Old 07-23-2007, 07:56 PM   #77
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!!! Ouchies hun!! hope you heal up real soon, and once again, thank good for good gear.
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:08 PM   #78
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It was a good thing you had people at the track with you Patricia, you wouldn't believe the number of folks that don't.

Speedy recovery to you, take care of those injuries!
I know, can you imagine? I would never go by myself and try to tell others the same. Scary!

Thanks Tom and Slowkat for the well-wishes.

Everyone, if you do a trackday and you go alone, hook up with someone!
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:00 PM   #79
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Patricia,
First and foremost I personally am glad to hear that you are doing relatively well. Both you and your boyfriend were gracious and understanding under those circumstances and I a could tell what I was telling you wasn't what you wanted to hear or even agreed with. I have thought of little else since Saturday and even now I am not crazy about letting the guy continue riding.

As both Jeff and Ronnie stated we have a policy that has developed over the eight years that we have been holding track days and I tried to remain consistent with that policy. Ronnie was partially right on his statement of our policy, if we catch a rider riding in an unsafe and dangerous manner you get one warning and one warning only, after that we help you pack your things and give you a scooter escort out of the track. It hasn't happened often but it has happened a few times in eight years. If you are popping wheelies down the back straight or breaking similar rules we give you two warnings and then we help you pack up. The guy was in tears when I got to him, two other instructors had already drilled him before I talked to him. He was remorseful and very apologetic, had he been anything else I would have sent him packing. He told me that he got in too hot, wasn't looking through the corner and target fixated on you. He was a newbie that made a mistake, a huge mistake that you had to pay for but a mistake none the less. We bumped him up to the B-group because he stated he was a lot faster than the other riders and was going to pull in 2 laps before and ask to be moved up; unfortunately he didn't do so. I had our lead CMRA instructor shadow the guy for two sessions and he obeyed the rules the rest of the day; again a little to late.

I have been exactly where you are with a banged up body and a broken bike to boot. It SUCKS! My last year of racing I had three wrecks at our track days and none of them were my fault. One guy was rinding above his ability on a wet track and high-sided in front of me in 8a, I could hit him our take the tire wall at 90, I took the tire wall and ended up with a torn left rotator cuff for my effort. A month later a guy didn't seem to understand that the water he was putting into his radiator between every session was going somewhere and surprise I found it after he crashed in his own fluid. Lesson to all of you track day riders do not ever turn your back to the track. This guy was walking away from his wreck with his back facing the track, when I low sided in his water my bike went flipping by him head level and missed him by 18 inches. It would have surely killed the guy had my bike hit him. My last wreck was in the air fence at my now favorite turn 8a due to a bad batch of Dunlop tires. That weekend we crashed 4 times before we finally figured out that the tires were . Another lesson to you riders if the bike isn't working for what ever reason don't keep pushing and trying to ride around the problem. We were all experienced racers and had three championships between us but we didn't figure it out until way to late. Oh yeah that trip in the air fence got the right rotator cuff just so both shoulders would be useless. Unfortunately not everyone exercises common sense or is as diligent as we wish, their mistakes can get us on the race track or street and you just never know when it could happen.

Hope you heal quickly!
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:21 PM   #80
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