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Old 08-31-2015, 04:29 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA II View Post
Wow, we're either watching different videos or are using different dictionaries.

Yes, in the video I watched the cop was initially weaving across multiple lanes.

But when the collision occurs he had been in the number two lane for many blocks. By absolute definition, sideswiping is straying (intentionally or not) from a set course of travel laterally into the side of another vehicle.

The bike was in the number one lane for quite some distance before he began to pass the cruiser - the rider had easily established his presence in that lane - there was no sudden or abrupt overtaking involved. It's plainly evident that it's the police cruiser that does the sideswiping. The car steadily and without pause veers left to the left most portion of the roadway, swiftly pushing the bike into the curb.

Even though it's readily apparent that the bike wasn't rapidly accelerating past the cruiser (everyone here should know what kind of acceleration these bikes are capable of) let's assume that the rider was trying to outrun the cop. Please cite for me the law that allows an officer to use his vehicle as an instrument of deadly force to effect the arrest of someone fleeing on a motorcycle. (When you review the applicable laws you're likely going to come across Tennessee vs. Garner, the pertinent case law that states that an officer can only use deadly force when the officer has reasonable cause to believe the suspect poses serious threat of bodily harm to the officer or others). The use of a cruiser to stop a motorcycle has widely been accepted as use of deadly force. The courts have roundly ruled that a suspect's flight - in and of itself - does not constitute a reasonable threat to the officer or others.

In order for an officer to use their cruiser as a weapon [which is exactly what it is - when a suspect strikes an officer's car with theirs (or when any person intentionally strikes another person or occupied vehicle with their own) the charge is aggravated assault - assault with compounding factors rendering the assault capable of causing death] the officer must be able to articulate his fear that the fleeing suspect poses an imminent threat to the safety of others - such as when he is fleeing apprehension for previously committed violent felonies. Simply "turning on the (emergency) lights" does not exempt an officer from the laws covering use of force.

Nationwide, courts have ruled that alone in itself, flight on a motorcycle does not constitute a threat to the public of sufficient degree to warrant official response including the use of deadly force. Even to PIT a car an officer has to have demonstrable evidence of threat and receive permission from superiors.

None of that is evident in this case.

If your only argument then is that it was an accident (though the bike was even with the driver's window of the police cruiser, the cruiser's turn was measured and constant and speeds were negligible to the point that the collision was a predictable outcome) or or that the bike posed serious, imminent threat of grievous harm to the officer or others (which if it did then should not the officer have then been obliged to collide with all of the other bikes on the roadway doing the same things, thus preventing the imminent harm to others) then I can't argue with you, because neither of those scenarios are even the slightest bit credible from what I saw as clear as day in the video.

The evidence plainly shows a cop's malicious overreaction. Everything a prosecutor would need to support a conviction of any regular person on the charge of aggravated assault is there but of course that's not likely to happen. Look at the rate of indictment for officers of the law and you'll know how this is going to turn out.

--oh, and I was just asking who Curt was, earlier.
tards man. nothing is gonna change their saltine minds.

they were black.

yeah and that black guy stood up to the cop like a champ. haha. get back in yourbcar and leave
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Old 08-31-2015, 04:31 PM   #162
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Quote:
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...If your only argument then is that it was an accident (though the bike was even with the driver's window of the police cruiser, the cruiser's turn was measured and constant and speeds were negligible to the point that the collision was a predictable outcome)...
Obviously, we see this from different viewpoints and that's OK, we can disagree.

What we both see is, the cop slowly moving over, with the bike more or less alongside.

It's the assumptions we make, that makes the difference.

It seems that you assume the officer intentionally ran into the bike. Assault with a deadly weapon.
What I assume is, the officer slowly moved over with the intent to force the bike to brake and drop back behind him. A reasonable tactic, considering he made no moves to ram any other bikes.
Instead the bike stayed next to him until he hit the curb and fell.

In fact, it looks to me like the bike and car may not have even made contact, although that's not clear just from the video.
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Old 08-31-2015, 04:31 PM   #163
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Old 08-31-2015, 04:48 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA II View Post
Wow, we're either watching different videos or are using different dictionaries.

Yes, in the video I watched the cop was initially weaving across multiple lanes.

But when the collision occurs he had been in the number two lane for many blocks. By absolute definition, sideswiping is straying (intentionally or not) from a set course of travel laterally into the side of another vehicle.

The bike was in the number one lane for quite some distance before he began to pass the cruiser - the rider had easily established his presence in that lane - there was no sudden or abrupt overtaking involved. It's plainly evident that it's the police cruiser that does the sideswiping. The car steadily and without pause veers left to the left most portion of the roadway, swiftly pushing the bike into the curb.

Even though it's readily apparent that the bike wasn't rapidly accelerating past the cruiser (everyone here should know what kind of acceleration these bikes are capable of) let's assume that the rider was trying to outrun the cop. Please cite for me the law that allows an officer to use his vehicle as an instrument of deadly force to effect the arrest of someone fleeing on a motorcycle. (When you review the applicable laws you're likely going to come across Tennessee vs. Garner, the pertinent case law that states that an officer can only use deadly force when the officer has reasonable cause to believe the suspect poses serious threat of bodily harm to the officer or others). The use of a cruiser to stop a motorcycle has widely been accepted as use of deadly force. The courts have roundly ruled that a suspect's flight - in and of itself - does not constitute a reasonable threat to the officer or others.

In order for an officer to use their cruiser as a weapon [which is exactly what it is - when a suspect strikes an officer's car with theirs (or when any person intentionally strikes another person or occupied vehicle with their own) the charge is aggravated assault - assault with compounding factors rendering the assault capable of causing death] the officer must be able to articulate his fear that the fleeing suspect poses an imminent threat to the safety of others - such as when he is fleeing apprehension for previously committed violent felonies. Simply "turning on the (emergency) lights" does not exempt an officer from the laws covering use of force.

Nationwide, courts have ruled that alone in itself, flight on a motorcycle does not constitute a threat to the public of sufficient degree to warrant official response including the use of deadly force. Even to PIT a car an officer has to have demonstrable evidence of threat and receive permission from superiors.

None of that is evident in this case.

If your only argument then is that it was an accident (though the bike was even with the driver's window of the police cruiser, the cruiser's turn was measured and constant and speeds were negligible to the point that the collision was a predictable outcome) or or that the bike posed serious, imminent threat of grievous harm to the officer or others (which if it did then should not the officer have then been obliged to collide with all of the other bikes on the roadway doing the same things, thus preventing the imminent harm to others) then I can't argue with you, because neither of those scenarios are even the slightest bit credible from what I saw as clear as day in the video.

The evidence plainly shows a cop's malicious overreaction. Everything a prosecutor would need to support a conviction of any regular person on the charge of aggravated assault is there but of course that's not likely to happen. Look at the rate of indictment for officers of the law and you'll know how this is going to turn out.

--oh, and I was just asking who Curt was, earlier.
The video doesn't show intent which would be required to prove it was malicious. That'll have to be established through the investigation.

This isn't a use of deadly force either because the cop isn't trying to run him off the road. On the video it looks like the cop is already into the far left lane ahead of the bike (I'll give you that the perspective of the camera doesn't make it clear at the start). He (the biker) definitely accelerated from rear left corner of the car up to window when he finally went off the road. That was clear in the video. It doesn't seem like the cop swerved into him while he was directly beside him. You can tell that the bike doesn't have much room to start around the cop even before he gets to the rear bumper. The bike tried to shoot the gap thinking the cop would back off. Obviously that was a dumb idea. It doesn't matter that the bike had established himself in the lane behind the cop. When he doesn't back down and tries to squeeze by he sideswipes the cop and he runs off the road.

I don't think the officer was attempting to use deadly force to bring him to a stop. I think the rider got ballsy and thought the cop was going to weave back to the right and was wrong. If you see a car cutting across brakes are more effective than gas. Seems more like a dumb move by the biker than the cop being malicious.

TL,DR; The biker tried to overtake the cop car after he was already in the lane. Dumb move on the rider, not cops fault or intent.
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Old 08-31-2015, 05:23 PM   #165
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Disregarding all other easily discernible evidence in the video - it's absolutely irrefutable that the cop sideswipes the bike, not vise versa. The bike is traveling straight, forward. The cruiser is traveling laterally toward the bike.

The cruiser does not stop the lateral, left movement until the bike strikes the curb. Both vehicles' speed is more or less constant. The cruiser moves from one lane into the other. The bike stays within its lane until it is pushed out of it. This is text book "running off of the road." For any claim to be substantiated that the bike sideswiped the cruiser the bike would have to veer right, into the car, rather than the car veering left, into the bike.

If nothing else is even considered, that fact alone seems indisputable from the evidence on display. To claim otherwise is to blatantly gloss over the clear cut visual record. There's no point in debating the point with anyone who claims that the bike sideswiped the car because even with clear, concrete evidence staring us in the face to make such a claim is indicative that the truth doesn't matter here, only the narrative/position that the other side wants to believe. And if winning the argument means disregarding self-evident truth then there's no way to prevail in any case.
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Old 08-31-2015, 05:45 PM   #166
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:24 PM   #167
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Quote:
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Disregarding all other easily discernible evidence in the video - it's absolutely irrefutable that the cop sideswipes the bike, not vise versa. The bike is traveling straight, forward. The cruiser is traveling laterally toward the bike.
Irrefutable?
I disagree. Like I said, I don't see any contact. Maybe they hit but you cant see that in the video.
I don't think anybody side swiped anybody.
I think the cop pinched off the bikers line until the biker had 2 choices, brake and fall back or hit the curb. He most likely panicked and didn't hit the brakes soon enough to avoid the curb.
Or maybe he was stupid enough to think his would make the cop back down and move over.
It was very likely an intentional move on the cops part. His responsibility is to attempt to restore order for the public safety. Slowing the pack and forcing them to stay behind him was the way he was doing it.
The biker decided he didn't have to do that.

Quote:
The cruiser does not stop the lateral, left movement until the bike strikes the curb. Both vehicles' speed is more or less constant. The cruiser moves from one lane into the other. The bike stays within its lane until it is pushed out of it. This is text book "running off of the road." For any claim to be substantiated that the bike sideswiped the cruiser the bike would have to veer right, into the car, rather than the car veering left, into the bike.
All true.

Quote:
If nothing else is even considered, that fact alone seems indisputable from the evidence on display. To claim otherwise is to blatantly gloss over the clear cut visual record. There's no point in debating the point with anyone who claims that the bike sideswiped the car because even with clear, concrete evidence staring us in the face to make such a claim is indicative that the truth doesn't matter here, only the narrative/position that the other side wants to believe.
Like I said, yep the cop car moved over on the bike. No dispute.
Did the cop hit the bike? I can't see it for sure. I can say for sure if he was trying to "sideswipe" the bike he did a poor job.
If he was trying to hit it, he would have moved much quicker. He could have punted the bike right off the road but you can clearly see the bike run into the curb and fall over.

Quote:
And if winning the argument means disregarding self-evident truth then there's no way to prevail in any case.
Again, you're correct.
If you disregard the self evident truth that at the WORST this was an error on the cops part and more likely it was an error on the bikers part. He should have hit the brakes and dropped back, obviously what the cop wanted him to do.

Instead, you are taking the stand that it was an intentional, assault with a deadly weapon by a white cop on a black rider. You seem to be intelligent, well educated.
Take race out of it and see that it was a cop doing his job.
Did he make a mistake? Maybe
But there is no doubt the rider made a mistake when he decided to join in hooliganism and then disobey law enforcement when they intervene.
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:04 PM   #168
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:21 PM   #169
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tards man. nothing is gonna change their saltine minds.

they were black.

yeah and that black guy stood up to the cop like a champ. haha. get back in yourbcar and leave
Reported..
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:58 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA II View Post
Disregarding all other easily discernible evidence in the video - it's absolutely irrefutable that the cop sideswipes the bike, not vise versa. The bike is traveling straight, forward. The cruiser is traveling laterally toward the bike.

The cruiser does not stop the lateral, left movement until the bike strikes the curb. Both vehicles' speed is more or less constant. The cruiser moves from one lane into the other. The bike stays within its lane until it is pushed out of it. This is text book "running off of the road." For any claim to be substantiated that the bike sideswiped the cruiser the bike would have to veer right, into the car, rather than the car veering left, into the bike.

If nothing else is even considered, that fact alone seems indisputable from the evidence on display. To claim otherwise is to blatantly gloss over the clear cut visual record. There's no point in debating the point with anyone who claims that the bike sideswiped the car because even with clear, concrete evidence staring us in the face to make such a claim is indicative that the truth doesn't matter here, only the narrative/position that the other side wants to believe. And if winning the argument means disregarding self-evident truth then there's no way to prevail in any case.
Check out this version of the video. Guy puts it in slo mo and when you blow it up it clearly shows that the cop was already in the left lane.


The only reason it looks like the cop is moving over is because the video bike is coming around the corner and into the straight. Perspective like I said. You can look at the freakin lane markers and see that he was already there before the bike makes a move around the side. The only movement the cop makes is away from the bike after he taps the side of the car. There's you freakin self-evident truth.

But keep on pushing your narrative. Cops hate bikers and blacks, right? And if they're both then he's going to take them out.
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:24 PM   #171
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My 0.02 cents, For what it is worth, The biker had no business pulling up to the left of the LEO in the first place, But he did, And it looks to me that when the LEO finally saw the biker the cop tried to get out of the way so the biker didn't crash, But the biker was already to close to the curb and hit it the curb.........................It doesn't matter who is black and who is white. It was a biker making poor decisions, and A cop trying to do his job, Poorly I may add but trying none the less..........Like I said just my 0.02 cents.
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:54 PM   #172
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:00 PM   #173
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he's putting you in your place. Cop messed up. I guess you would have done the same thing if you were a cop?
Strongly disagree. Dumbass on bike didn't maintain 500 foot distance. In the video I saw, the cop just squeezed him out, and he sucked at riding, so he took a stupid tumble. And he has no respect for law enforcement.
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:15 PM   #174
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Oooh, just saw the slow mo. There was no squeezing. The cop veered out of the way to give him room when he saw him coming up on him with a little speed. Biker just sucked at riding.

As fun as it can be to play these stupid games, there are consequences. It's a good how to training video for guy riding illegally. If I were a DA in Milwaukee I'd ticket each driver following the cop too closely and interfering with his police business.

And if I were riding in Milwaukee, I'd have made it past the 5.0 no problem, long time ago, he was a sitting roadblock.
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Old 09-01-2015, 04:38 AM   #175
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rider went for the pass on the outside and didn;t make, whats the big deal.

buncha douches.
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Old 09-01-2015, 05:38 AM   #176
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when the cop loses his Job. youll see how dumb yalls remarks are.
Defending that rider is certainly a stroke of genius
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Old 09-01-2015, 05:40 AM   #177
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Which law was that?
Apparently there's a little known law against being retarded while riding
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Old 09-01-2015, 05:41 AM   #178
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Reported..
Oh now hes gonna get re band
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Old 09-01-2015, 05:43 AM   #179
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btw there is right and wrong.

not black and white.
Well the rider was certainly not wrong or stupid
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Old 09-01-2015, 06:22 AM   #180
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Oh now hes gonna get re band
One can only hope..
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