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Old 08-31-2015, 12:08 PM   #121
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:09 PM   #122
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I just can never believe the logic offered up by the cop apologists that, "if a rider didn't do what he did, he wouldn't have been run over," or "if the rider had complied, the cop wouldn't have shot him."

It is NEVER the responsibility of an officer of the law to level punishment on the side of the road. I don't care what crime a suspect is accused of, it's the job of the courts to mete out justice, the decision doesn't rest with a cop - who's tasked only with enforcement of law. Street-level retribution doled out by state-sponsored agents under color of law is a hallmark of authoritarianism. A society where such actions get widespread support from the populace is called totalitarianism.

Know some other states that were run this way? Uganda under Amin. Argentina under Pinochet. Venezuela under Chavez. The framers of our constitution decided on a somewhat more libertarian path, lol, and included a fourth amendment to our bill of rights to prevent exactly this kind of stuff.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, right? Sure. But it's not the duty of the cop to pick the prize.

I'd ask, what then would be the difference between a cop running over a robbery suspect or running over a jay walker? One is a serious crime and one is not, you'd say? Right. Except that we properly decided to assign the courts the task of ascribing the level of seriousness to crime and dispense punishment accordingly.

Cops follow a use of force continuum in enforcing law. They can respond with only force equal to that required by the situation and no more.

I imagine all these apologists, who claim that if people didn't break laws that they wouldn't face brutality at the hands of some police, wouldn't be singing that tune if they - or their grandmother for instance - were shot by a cop for littering. Preposterous, you say? Littering is nothing like murder! You're right! And you know how we draw these distinctions? By mutual dependence and subscription to a system of courts at law.

If you want to live in a place like North Korea, where a police officer can be judge jury and executioner, then by all means keep spewing that rhetoric and looking the other way - until it happens to you.

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Old 08-31-2015, 12:12 PM   #123
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:14 PM   #124
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Well said Curt.
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:16 PM   #125
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:22 PM   #126
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Is it possible it was an accident?
Maybe the cop was moving over to block the bike from passing, which IS within his authority, and misjudged the closing speed. Maybe the bike got pinched between the car and the curb unintentionally.
Seems like, if it could be shown the cop did it on purpose, he'd be charged with reckless endangerment.

This is seldom as "cut and dried" as people want to make it.

It looks to me like BOTH were at fault. If the rider wasn't ignoring the flashing lights and obvious attempts at blocking the cop was doing, bad wouldn't have happened.
If the cop had been more careful he wouldn't have put the bike down. I'm sure he was watching his mirrors and trying to be aware of where everybody was around him, but he screwed up.

So when an accident happens involving mass indifference to the law and someone gets hurt, who is surprised?
Who is at fault?
The cop trying to reestablish order or the apparently out of control mob?
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:27 PM   #127
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You phunny and your assumptions will make you look STOOOOPID.
Uh...that was actually you
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:28 PM   #128
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THE BuckNut is a social creature and likes to meet new people at Bike Nights. You should try it!
I ride my bikes. I didn't buy them so I could park them, sit around and flap my gums. If that's what you need, then you go be happy.
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:31 PM   #129
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:32 PM   #130
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Does Bevo drink beer?
Yup, but not when I ride
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:33 PM   #131
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:34 PM   #132
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:36 PM   #133
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Phew, almost ready to really not like you!
Dude, seriously. I don't give a rat's about folks I've never ridden with or met. You're still a noob here. Apparently you haven't figured that out.
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:46 PM   #134
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I just can never believe the logic offered up by the cop apologists that, "if a rider didn't do what he did, he wouldn't have been run over," or "if the rider had complied, the cop wouldn't have shot him."

It is NEVER the responsibility of an officer of the law to level punishment on the side of the road. I don't care what crime a suspect is accused of, it's the job of the courts to mete out justice, the decision doesn't rest with a cop - who's tasked only with enforcement of law. Street-level retribution doled out by state-sponsored agents under color of law is a hallmark of authoritarianism. A society where such actions get widespread support from the populace is called totalitarianism.

Know some other states that were run this way? Uganda under Amin. Argentina under Pinochet. Venezuela under Chavez. The framers of our constitution decided on a somewhat more libertarian path, lol, and included a fourth amendment to our bill of rights to prevent exactly this kind of stuff.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, right? Sure. But it's not the duty of the cop to pick the prize.

I'd ask, what then would be the difference between a cop running over a robbery suspect or running over a jay walker? One is a serious crime and one is not, you'd say? Right. Except that we properly decided to assign the courts the task of ascribing the level of seriousness to crime and dispense punishment accordingly.

Cops follow a use of force continuum in enforcing law. They can respond with only force equal to that required by the situation and no more.

I imagine all these apologists, who claim that if people didn't break laws that they wouldn't face brutality at the hands of some police, wouldn't be singing that tune if they - or their grandmother for instance - were shot by a cop for littering. Preposterous, you say? Littering is nothing like murder! You're right! And you know how we draw these distinctions? By mutual dependence and subscription to a system of courts at law.

If you want to live in a place like North Korea, where a police officer can be judge jury and executioner, then by all means keep spewing that rhetoric and looking the other way - until it happens to you.
nice explanation.

however those same apologists would say you ride a hayabusa and you dont know what you are talking about.

however those same apologists if the cop told them to take there pants off theyd do it. cause cop said so, and they probably like it that way anyway.
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:47 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by bumblebee View Post
Is it possible it was an accident?
Maybe the cop was moving over to block the bike from passing, which IS within his authority, and misjudged the closing speed. Maybe the bike got pinched between the car and the curb unintentionally.
Seems like, if it could be shown the cop did it on purpose, he'd be charged with reckless endangerment.

This is seldom as "cut and dried" as people want to make it.

It looks to me like BOTH were at fault. If the rider wasn't ignoring the flashing lights and obvious attempts at blocking the cop was doing, bad wouldn't have happened.
If the cop had been more careful he wouldn't have put the bike down. I'm sure he was watching his mirrors and trying to be aware of where everybody was around him, but he screwed up.

So when an accident happens involving mass indifference to the law and someone gets hurt, who is surprised?
Who is at fault?
The cop trying to reestablish order or the apparently out of control mob?
stop.

dumb again.
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:55 PM   #136
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dumb again.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
^^^ expert on that

Fify and you're welcome
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Old 08-31-2015, 12:57 PM   #137
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Curt?
Obviously I'm not talking about you. Unless your name is Curt.
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Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

yeah. I thought it'd be like riding with a condescending rossi.
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Old 08-31-2015, 01:01 PM   #138
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Dumb. Stop. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

All I know to say is dumb.
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Old 08-31-2015, 01:03 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA II View Post
I just can never believe the logic offered up by the cop apologists that, "if a rider didn't do what he did, he wouldn't have been run over," or "if the rider had complied, the cop wouldn't have shot him."

It is NEVER the responsibility of an officer of the law to level punishment on the side of the road. I don't care what crime a suspect is accused of, it's the job of the courts to mete out justice, the decision doesn't rest with a cop - who's tasked only with enforcement of law. Street-level retribution doled out by state-sponsored agents under color of law is a hallmark of authoritarianism. A society where such actions get widespread support from the populace is called totalitarianism.

Know some other states that were run this way? Uganda under Amin. Argentina under Pinochet. Venezuela under Chavez. The framers of our constitution decided on a somewhat more libertarian path, lol, and included a fourth amendment to our bill of rights to prevent exactly this kind of stuff.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, right? Sure. But it's not the duty of the cop to pick the prize.

I'd ask, what then would be the difference between a cop running over a robbery suspect or running over a jay walker? One is a serious crime and one is not, you'd say? Right. Except that we properly decided to assign the courts the task of ascribing the level of seriousness to crime and dispense punishment accordingly.

Cops follow a use of force continuum in enforcing law. They can respond with only force equal to that required by the situation and no more.

I imagine all these apologists, who claim that if people didn't break laws that they wouldn't face brutality at the hands of some police, wouldn't be singing that tune if they - or their grandmother for instance - were shot by a cop for littering. Preposterous, you say? Littering is nothing like murder! You're right! And you know how we draw these distinctions? By mutual dependence and subscription to a system of courts at law.

If you want to live in a place like North Korea, where a police officer can be judge jury and executioner, then by all means keep spewing that rhetoric and looking the other way - until it happens to you.
No one knows what's in the cop's mind except the cop. He may have been trying to block the rider and unintentionally struck him.
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Old 08-31-2015, 01:06 PM   #140
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Obviously I'm not talking about you. Unless your name is Curt.
Exactly. He didn't even quote you on the response. I don't get it
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